5 ms·

I used to shame PG for his elitist views. Now I celebrate his moral courage. One man cannot fix everything. Dear PG (I'm sure you don't read HN, but this is y

I used to shame PG for his elitist views. Now I celebrate his moral courage. One man cannot fix everything. Dear PG (I'm sure you don't read HN, but this is yet another echo), As I said on X, your own platform (YCombinator) is still full of hateful bigots who would censor/downvote even the mildest form of speaking against the genocide. Proof: this comment being downvoted. Downvoting as a mechanism is akin to censorship. It's being abused.

Aeolun 1y ago
> It's being abused. Downvoting on HN doesn’t go lower than -4. If it’s used as a method of censorship, and you care about internet points, then you practically have to post nothing else useful to make it work.
- j_maffe 1y ago
  Yes but it hides the comment for most users. This is of course besides the flagging abuse which outright delists websites.
- close04 1y ago
  Downvoting moves the comment down the reply tree and greys it out making it harder to read. Flagging comments completely hides them from many users, especially when logged in. And flagging submissions sends them to oblivion. So these methods are definitely used to suppress topics or opinions, for better or worse. But when it comes to genocide it's obvious that those committing it also have the power to abuse every mechanism available to suppress information and discussions condemning it.
adastra22 1y ago
Having a difference of opinion on a very complicated geopolitical situation that is the culmination of a century of regional conflict is not being a "hateful bigot" or abuse.
- nakamoto_damacy 1y ago
  Genocide is not complicated.
  - cjs_ac 1y ago
    Genocide is both extreme and labour-intensive. No one wakes up in the morning and decides to become an extremist; it takes an awful lot to turn someone into an extremist. That 'awful lot' has to happen to many people for a genocide to actually happen. The genocide itself is simple enough; the thousands of years of conflict leading to the genocide are not. Anyone who believes they can unpick all that history to come to a neat conclusion about who are the 'goodies' and who are the 'baddies' is a fool. My only interest in this conflict is in keeping it as far away from myself, my kith and my kin as possible.
    - jajko 1y ago
      There are no goodies in this conflict, it doesn't matter whether some folks refuse to acknowledge their own tribe or ethnicity is doing or done some absolutely horrible things. No amount of whatabouttism is changing that, rest are details. When anybody has doubts about how fucked up world and humans are, I just direct them into this medium-term conflict, facts are easy enough to find.
    - pjc50 1y ago
      Nazi Germany provided people the opportunity to become an extremist by answering a job ad, and put together a whole murderous infrastructure of extremism in about a decade.
      - octopoc 1y ago
        The vast majority of Germans had no idea about the holocaust. It wasn't even well known outside Germany until a decade later IIRC. What's happening in Gaza is different because now we have cell phones and the Internet, and AI isn't quite good enough yet to fake a genocide.
mattmaroon 1y ago
The fact that you can’t see any reason other than bigotry why this comment would be down voted is exactly what he was talking about in his essay on wokeness.
Dumblydorr 1y ago
[flagged]
- nakamoto_damacy 1y ago
  "You’re bringing emotion and hunches and your own biases to this more than the reasonable reply." <-- what are you talking about or is this a generic observation that is being applied here out of context? Humian philosophy acknowledges that logic is driven by conviction and justified post hoc. Meaning: if my logic is driven by conviction, so is yours. All logic is, in the end.
DoctorOW 1y ago
> Proof: this comment being downvoted. Downvoting as a mechanism is akin to censorship. It's being abused. I agree it's hard to talk about anti-establishment issues on corporate owned media, but I feel like HN isn't really putting a thumb on the scale. As my proof, you assumed the comment was being downvoted, but it shows no sign of that (isn't particularly low, not faded at all). Unpopular opinions will obviously do poorly in a popularity contest, but I feel the tide is shifting among those informed on the issues.
- nakamoto_damacy 1y ago
  "you assumed the comment was being downvoted, " It has been ranging between -1 to 3, so a mix of votes and downvotes. It is 0 as of the time of this reply. EDIT: -1 now right after I pressed submit.
mostertoaster 1y ago
I think what happens is things come from people with certain views, who seem to be part of some specific tribe, and so the presumption is they’re just spinning a thing for their own angle. This happened all the time during COVID. Facts about its transmission and impact, would be immediately dismissed depending on if it went with the story we already accepted. Everyone has already accepted a story of “Israel good”, or “Israel bad”, and online forums hardly change anyone’s mind.
- nakamoto_damacy 1y ago
  "genocide good" ? that can't be, but it seems to be the case for a vocal minority on HN (I got banned several times over the last two years for accusing Israel of genocide ad starting a shit storm of angry mob comments)

Aeolun 1y ago

> It's being abused. Downvoting on HN doesn’t go lower than -4. If it’s used as a method of censorship, and you care about internet points, then you practically have to post nothing else useful to make it work.

j_maffe 1y ago
Yes but it hides the comment for most users. This is of course besides the flagging abuse which outright delists websites.
close04 1y ago
Downvoting moves the comment down the reply tree and greys it out making it harder to read. Flagging comments completely hides them from many users, especially when logged in. And flagging submissions sends them to oblivion. So these methods are definitely used to suppress topics or opinions, for better or worse. But when it comes to genocide it's obvious that those committing it also have the power to abuse every mechanism available to suppress information and discussions condemning it.

adastra22 1y ago

Having a difference of opinion on a very complicated geopolitical situation that is the culmination of a century of regional conflict is not being a "hateful bigot" or abuse.

nakamoto_damacy 1y ago
Genocide is not complicated.
- cjs_ac 1y ago
  Genocide is both extreme and labour-intensive. No one wakes up in the morning and decides to become an extremist; it takes an awful lot to turn someone into an extremist. That 'awful lot' has to happen to many people for a genocide to actually happen. The genocide itself is simple enough; the thousands of years of conflict leading to the genocide are not. Anyone who believes they can unpick all that history to come to a neat conclusion about who are the 'goodies' and who are the 'baddies' is a fool. My only interest in this conflict is in keeping it as far away from myself, my kith and my kin as possible.
  - jajko 1y ago
    There are no goodies in this conflict, it doesn't matter whether some folks refuse to acknowledge their own tribe or ethnicity is doing or done some absolutely horrible things. No amount of whatabouttism is changing that, rest are details. When anybody has doubts about how fucked up world and humans are, I just direct them into this medium-term conflict, facts are easy enough to find.
  - pjc50 1y ago
    Nazi Germany provided people the opportunity to become an extremist by answering a job ad, and put together a whole murderous infrastructure of extremism in about a decade.
    - octopoc 1y ago
      The vast majority of Germans had no idea about the holocaust. It wasn't even well known outside Germany until a decade later IIRC. What's happening in Gaza is different because now we have cell phones and the Internet, and AI isn't quite good enough yet to fake a genocide.

mattmaroon 1y ago

The fact that you can’t see any reason other than bigotry why this comment would be down voted is exactly what he was talking about in his essay on wokeness.

Dumblydorr 1y ago

[flagged]

nakamoto_damacy 1y ago
"You’re bringing emotion and hunches and your own biases to this more than the reasonable reply." <-- what are you talking about or is this a generic observation that is being applied here out of context? Humian philosophy acknowledges that logic is driven by conviction and justified post hoc. Meaning: if my logic is driven by conviction, so is yours. All logic is, in the end.

DoctorOW 1y ago

> Proof: this comment being downvoted. Downvoting as a mechanism is akin to censorship. It's being abused. I agree it's hard to talk about anti-establishment issues on corporate owned media, but I feel like HN isn't really putting a thumb on the scale. As my proof, you assumed the comment was being downvoted, but it shows no sign of that (isn't particularly low, not faded at all). Unpopular opinions will obviously do poorly in a popularity contest, but I feel the tide is shifting among those informed on the issues.

nakamoto_damacy 1y ago
"you assumed the comment was being downvoted, " It has been ranging between -1 to 3, so a mix of votes and downvotes. It is 0 as of the time of this reply. EDIT: -1 now right after I pressed submit.

mostertoaster 1y ago

I think what happens is things come from people with certain views, who seem to be part of some specific tribe, and so the presumption is they’re just spinning a thing for their own angle. This happened all the time during COVID. Facts about its transmission and impact, would be immediately dismissed depending on if it went with the story we already accepted. Everyone has already accepted a story of “Israel good”, or “Israel bad”, and online forums hardly change anyone’s mind.

nakamoto_damacy 1y ago
"genocide good" ? that can't be, but it seems to be the case for a vocal minority on HN (I got banned several times over the last two years for accusing Israel of genocide ad starting a shit storm of angry mob comments)