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If you don't care about business practices and general privacy concerns, Bambu. If you want a large printer that's decent for tinkering, Sovol SV08. If you wa

If you don't care about business practices and general privacy concerns, Bambu. If you want a large printer that's decent for tinkering, Sovol SV08. If you want relatively good support and to support a company that has a history of giving back, Prusa. If you want something cheap with a lot of features that tend to be more high end, Elegoo Centuri Carbon. If you just want something cheap that's arguably incredible value with an active community, Creality Ender 3 V3 KE.

skhameneh 1y ago
Also given what you've said about privacy, that probably eliminates Bambu and possibly the Centuri Carbon (not sure). The SV08 can be ran offline, but it does try to phone home (3rd party) whenever it's online. Prusa might be your best bet of these when it comes to privacy. Prusa is by far the most "open" probably with the SV08 second because it uses so much from the open source community (it's Voron inspired). If you have a lot of time to spend, you could build a Voron, but I would not recommend that to anyone new to 3D printing.
- miladyincontrol 1y ago
  Its not much to replace the SV08's OS and fork of klipper with more open source and standard options.
- drnick1 1y ago
  It's incredibly frustrating that the majority of devices today report usage to the mothership without the user's consent. Does firewalling the device cause any issues? A printer (of any kind) should not reach the open Internet, period.
  - Mogzol 1y ago
    All of these printers can be run completely offline, although then you obviously lose any network-related features such as sending prints over the network. I know that at least the Bambu printers (and I assume most others) can also be run in LAN-only mode, where they only work with devices on the same network. In this mode you could definitely firewall them without causing issues. The main features you lose by being in LAN-only mode are the phone app and being able to access the printer from off your network.
    - luqtas 1y ago
      can't you use something like this? https://octoprint.org/ https://octoprint.org/ i have no idea if it works with modern ones but my "old" Ender 3 plays nice with it
      - gol706 1y ago
        Octoprint is still a great piece of software that works with most printers, but it's running into a dead end where streaming G Code over the USB Serial emulation isn't fast enough on the newest generation of printers to keep them printing at their full speed.
    - buzzergfxkjkl 1y ago
      I second this. I run an A1 on a separate IoT wifi network that doesn't have outbound connectivity and using nftables rules for forwarding can send prints from my normal network with minimal fuss. I did have to play around and use orcaslicer to get the printer set up using the network printing and camera feed working. The one issue I do have is that it seems I would need to connect the printer to a internet enabled Network to get firmware updates, because the firmware version I have is ironically the one before they enabled SD card updating lol. Back to the original question, I've had this printer for about a month and have been printing virtually non-stop with very minimal complaints. Coming from an ender 3 it is absolutely night and day in terms of ease of setup and general usage.
      - _carbyau_ 1y ago
        If the printer is functional, doing what you got it for, what do you need firmware updates for?
    - zdp7 1y ago
      Lan Only works by making you use the Bambu connect software. If the Bambu Connect software isn't running, Orca cannot start a print job or control the printer. It doesn't sound too onerous, but it should be mentioned that LAN only wasn't added till users gave 'feedback'. I suspect the original intent was Bambu Slicer only. https://blog.bambulab.com/updates-and-third-party-integration-with-bambu-connect/ https://blog.bambulab.com/updates-and-third-party-integratio...
timw4mail 1y ago
Of these options, I'd recommend the SV08, provided you are okay with some mods essentially being required for consistent, reliable use. These being: - Eddy sensor (for faster bed meshing, eddy-ng addon for Klipper adds auto z-offset) - Mainline Klipper/Kalico (required for eddy functionality) - Some motherboard fan replacement mod (the default is tiny, noisy, and always-on) Of the others listed: - Bambu printers and the Elegoo Centauri Carbon have locked-down firmware (possibly with hidden license violations). - I think the only Prusa machine with that build volume is the XL, which is out of the price range - The Creality Ender 3 V3 KE is okay, but the build volume is 220x220x240mm
- stavros 1y ago
  This is if you like tinkering with printers. I gave away my Wanhao and bought a Bambu, and I haven't thought about the printer since. Now I just print.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - wpm 1y ago
    These are upgrades, not tinkering. None of them are necessary, just QoL. The Eddy sensor is better than anything Bambu's "AI" cameras can do as far as leveling. You can buy upgrades for your Bambu too.
    - stavros 1y ago
      Yes, but with Bambu I don't need to. Their 5x5 leveling works perfectly, though I will admit that eddy leveling is super cool. I bought a sensor but didn't use Kipper and couldn't use the sensor with Marlin, and I got a Bambu before I switched to Klipper, so I gave the sensor away.
sdenton4 1y ago
Our makerspace at the office has a few prusa mk4's, and they're really great machines.
chakintosh 1y ago
> If you don't care about business practices and general privacy concerns, Bambu. While I agree, I think it's heavily underselling Bambulab printers in terms of UX and print quality, they are the absolute best in the market and by a mile.
- trenchpilgrim 1y ago
  I got a Bambu A1 Mini a few weeks ago and it's practically easier than 2D printing. Printed a whole tabletop game that I played with friends, and replacement parts for a gun that held up at the range.
  - atonse 1y ago
    Wow I’ve heard about these 3d printed guns mostly in the context of the gun control debate. I can’t wrap my head around “how does plastic stuff withstand the stresses of a bullet?”
    - bluGill 1y ago
      Most of a gun doesn't see that stress. put a barrel on a plastic gun and something metal behind and good enough for most needs.
    - GuB-42 1y ago
      Small caliber, lots of plastic, short lifespan, unreliable. Most serious 3D printed guns have at least a metal barrel. Often, 3D printed guns are just a lower receiver, that is the part you hold in your hand, the parts that actually fire the bullets (barrel, pin, slide, etc...) are bought off the shelf from real gun manufacturers. This is a workaround for some laws that considers gun parts to not be a gun. For example, outside of a gun, a barrel is just a metal pipe and can be traded freely. The part that makes a gun a gun is the lower receiver, and you can 3D print that in plastic and still get good performance. In fact, Glock makes this part in plastic and these are some of the most popular and proven guns in the world.
      - 1y ago
FloatArtifact 1y ago
Svo8 bed is warped on mine, unfortunately.
bdangubic 1y ago
Big thumbs up for “ Creality Ender 3 V3 KE.”
Sohcahtoa82 1y ago
I wouldn't recommend a Creality to someone new to 3D printing. They can be a pain to work with. They're CHEAP, and there's plenty of aftermarket support, but that ends up turning the printer into a product for someone who sees the printer itself being a hobby, rather than the printer being merely an appliance that produces things. Buying a Creality printer is like buying a hobby-grade RC car (ie, Traxxas, Team Associated, etc.). Decent out of the box, but you're likely going to be reaching for buying upgraded parts and it eventually becomes a Ship of Theseus. I have an Ender 3 Pro, my list of upgrades: - Replace the crappy flexible mat with PEI-coated flexsteel - Filament runout detector - Motherboard replacement (made flashing custom firmware 100x easier, and uses quieter stepper motor drivers) - Automatic bed leveler - Dual-gear extruder - Customized firmware that changes the 3x3 bed leveling matrix to 7x7 - OctoPi A decent printer will have half of these features already built in.
- mbreese 1y ago
  I agree. I have a Creality Ender 3 V2. I wanted something cheap that I wasn’t going to worry about if it became a paperweight (due to lack of use). As I worked more with it, I upgraded it a ton, putting about as much money into it as it cost (which wasn’t much). In the end, it’s a decent printer for what I want to do with it. I added: * Bed leveler * Flexible build surface * direct drive extruder * second z axis screw drive * octopi Everything except for the octopi was a Creality kit. So it’s not like they don’t know their market is looking to tinker and do upgrades themselves. If you want to make things because the end product is the goal, get something fancier. If you want to know how and why it works, spending a bit more time on the journey part (which might be frustrating), the Creality might be a good fit. It’s not going to have the same user-experience as a Bamboo or Prusa, but for me, that’s okay.
  - lstodd 1y ago
    well this. when I started tinkering there were none of those kits, and the Ender I have now has pretty much nothing in common with the Ender I bought back then except some parts of the frame and the drives. and still the whole journey cost was about the same as just buying Prusa and then learning nothing. this is a bit philosophical, but when you do want to shape material, be it wood or plastic, you have to not only understand how it's done, but to feel it. or you will repeatedly end up with crap and then endlessly wonder what went wrong this cannot be bought, it's experience. for 3d-printing the fastest way is to get something like Ender and then build your own perfect printer out of it over several years.
lloydatkinson 1y ago
> If you want relatively good support and to support a company that has a history of giving back, Prusa. Someone in a HN thread a couple of weeks ago said when you turn one of these on the companies CEO's face is used as the boot screen...
Wololooo 1y ago
> I would prefer something that doesn't phone home and can work offline. Opensource firmware/software and repairability are important. Bambulabs is out.
windexh8er 1y ago
If OP isn't in huge hurry I'd also add the impending Snapmaker U1 [0] to the list. It looks like it's going to be a better machine than Bambu has out in the long run for cheaper and much more in-line with one that you have full control of, unlike Bambu. [0] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/snapmaker/snapmaker-u1-color-3d-printer-5x-more-speed-5x-less-waste https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/snapmaker/snapmaker-u1-...
1024core 1y ago
> If you want a large printer that's decent for tinkering, Sovol SV08. I disagree about Sovol the company though. I have a Sovol SV07 in the garage gathering dust. Its printer head got all clogged up and when I complained to them, they just sent me a random part with no information on what to do with it. I guess I could get into the tinkering mode, but who has the time? I'd just love to have a sub-$1000 printer which prints whenever I have something to print (which is not too often, I concede), and does a fantastic job of it.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
motbus3 1y ago
Can I use custom slicer or other firmware/software with a BL?
amelius 1y ago
Bambu is very slow with starting up a print. Even if you just printed something less than a minute ago, it will take at least a few minutes before it can do the next print.
bmitc 1y ago
> If you don't care about business practices and general privacy concerns What are the actual concerns here? What has Bambu done that other 3D printer companies haven't?
Dork1234 1y ago
Creality K1 SE is only $50 more over the Ender 3 SE right now. Much better deal.

skhameneh 1y ago

Also given what you've said about privacy, that probably eliminates Bambu and possibly the Centuri Carbon (not sure). The SV08 can be ran offline, but it does try to phone home (3rd party) whenever it's online. Prusa might be your best bet of these when it comes to privacy. Prusa is by far the most "open" probably with the SV08 second because it uses so much from the open source community (it's Voron inspired). If you have a lot of time to spend, you could build a Voron, but I would not recommend that to anyone new to 3D printing.

miladyincontrol 1y ago
Its not much to replace the SV08's OS and fork of klipper with more open source and standard options.
drnick1 1y ago
It's incredibly frustrating that the majority of devices today report usage to the mothership without the user's consent. Does firewalling the device cause any issues? A printer (of any kind) should not reach the open Internet, period.
- Mogzol 1y ago
  All of these printers can be run completely offline, although then you obviously lose any network-related features such as sending prints over the network. I know that at least the Bambu printers (and I assume most others) can also be run in LAN-only mode, where they only work with devices on the same network. In this mode you could definitely firewall them without causing issues. The main features you lose by being in LAN-only mode are the phone app and being able to access the printer from off your network.
  - luqtas 1y ago
    can't you use something like this? https://octoprint.org/ https://octoprint.org/ i have no idea if it works with modern ones but my "old" Ender 3 plays nice with it
    - gol706 1y ago
      Octoprint is still a great piece of software that works with most printers, but it's running into a dead end where streaming G Code over the USB Serial emulation isn't fast enough on the newest generation of printers to keep them printing at their full speed.
  - buzzergfxkjkl 1y ago
    I second this. I run an A1 on a separate IoT wifi network that doesn't have outbound connectivity and using nftables rules for forwarding can send prints from my normal network with minimal fuss. I did have to play around and use orcaslicer to get the printer set up using the network printing and camera feed working. The one issue I do have is that it seems I would need to connect the printer to a internet enabled Network to get firmware updates, because the firmware version I have is ironically the one before they enabled SD card updating lol. Back to the original question, I've had this printer for about a month and have been printing virtually non-stop with very minimal complaints. Coming from an ender 3 it is absolutely night and day in terms of ease of setup and general usage.
    - _carbyau_ 1y ago
      If the printer is functional, doing what you got it for, what do you need firmware updates for?
  - zdp7 1y ago
    Lan Only works by making you use the Bambu connect software. If the Bambu Connect software isn't running, Orca cannot start a print job or control the printer. It doesn't sound too onerous, but it should be mentioned that LAN only wasn't added till users gave 'feedback'. I suspect the original intent was Bambu Slicer only. https://blog.bambulab.com/updates-and-third-party-integration-with-bambu-connect/ https://blog.bambulab.com/updates-and-third-party-integratio...

timw4mail 1y ago

Of these options, I'd recommend the SV08, provided you are okay with some mods essentially being required for consistent, reliable use. These being: - Eddy sensor (for faster bed meshing, eddy-ng addon for Klipper adds auto z-offset) - Mainline Klipper/Kalico (required for eddy functionality) - Some motherboard fan replacement mod (the default is tiny, noisy, and always-on) Of the others listed: - Bambu printers and the Elegoo Centauri Carbon have locked-down firmware (possibly with hidden license violations). - I think the only Prusa machine with that build volume is the XL, which is out of the price range - The Creality Ender 3 V3 KE is okay, but the build volume is 220x220x240mm

stavros 1y ago
This is if you like tinkering with printers. I gave away my Wanhao and bought a Bambu, and I haven't thought about the printer since. Now I just print.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- wpm 1y ago
  These are upgrades, not tinkering. None of them are necessary, just QoL. The Eddy sensor is better than anything Bambu's "AI" cameras can do as far as leveling. You can buy upgrades for your Bambu too.
  - stavros 1y ago
    Yes, but with Bambu I don't need to. Their 5x5 leveling works perfectly, though I will admit that eddy leveling is super cool. I bought a sensor but didn't use Kipper and couldn't use the sensor with Marlin, and I got a Bambu before I switched to Klipper, so I gave the sensor away.

sdenton4 1y ago

Our makerspace at the office has a few prusa mk4's, and they're really great machines.

chakintosh 1y ago

> If you don't care about business practices and general privacy concerns, Bambu. While I agree, I think it's heavily underselling Bambulab printers in terms of UX and print quality, they are the absolute best in the market and by a mile.

trenchpilgrim 1y ago
I got a Bambu A1 Mini a few weeks ago and it's practically easier than 2D printing. Printed a whole tabletop game that I played with friends, and replacement parts for a gun that held up at the range.
- atonse 1y ago
  Wow I’ve heard about these 3d printed guns mostly in the context of the gun control debate. I can’t wrap my head around “how does plastic stuff withstand the stresses of a bullet?”
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Most of a gun doesn't see that stress. put a barrel on a plastic gun and something metal behind and good enough for most needs.
  - GuB-42 1y ago
    Small caliber, lots of plastic, short lifespan, unreliable. Most serious 3D printed guns have at least a metal barrel. Often, 3D printed guns are just a lower receiver, that is the part you hold in your hand, the parts that actually fire the bullets (barrel, pin, slide, etc...) are bought off the shelf from real gun manufacturers. This is a workaround for some laws that considers gun parts to not be a gun. For example, outside of a gun, a barrel is just a metal pipe and can be traded freely. The part that makes a gun a gun is the lower receiver, and you can 3D print that in plastic and still get good performance. In fact, Glock makes this part in plastic and these are some of the most popular and proven guns in the world.
    - 1y ago

FloatArtifact 1y ago

Svo8 bed is warped on mine, unfortunately.

bdangubic 1y ago

Big thumbs up for “ Creality Ender 3 V3 KE.”

Sohcahtoa82 1y ago

I wouldn't recommend a Creality to someone new to 3D printing. They can be a pain to work with. They're CHEAP, and there's plenty of aftermarket support, but that ends up turning the printer into a product for someone who sees the printer itself being a hobby, rather than the printer being merely an appliance that produces things. Buying a Creality printer is like buying a hobby-grade RC car (ie, Traxxas, Team Associated, etc.). Decent out of the box, but you're likely going to be reaching for buying upgraded parts and it eventually becomes a Ship of Theseus. I have an Ender 3 Pro, my list of upgrades: - Replace the crappy flexible mat with PEI-coated flexsteel - Filament runout detector - Motherboard replacement (made flashing custom firmware 100x easier, and uses quieter stepper motor drivers) - Automatic bed leveler - Dual-gear extruder - Customized firmware that changes the 3x3 bed leveling matrix to 7x7 - OctoPi A decent printer will have half of these features already built in.

mbreese 1y ago
I agree. I have a Creality Ender 3 V2. I wanted something cheap that I wasn’t going to worry about if it became a paperweight (due to lack of use). As I worked more with it, I upgraded it a ton, putting about as much money into it as it cost (which wasn’t much). In the end, it’s a decent printer for what I want to do with it. I added: * Bed leveler * Flexible build surface * direct drive extruder * second z axis screw drive * octopi Everything except for the octopi was a Creality kit. So it’s not like they don’t know their market is looking to tinker and do upgrades themselves. If you want to make things because the end product is the goal, get something fancier. If you want to know how and why it works, spending a bit more time on the journey part (which might be frustrating), the Creality might be a good fit. It’s not going to have the same user-experience as a Bamboo or Prusa, but for me, that’s okay.
- lstodd 1y ago
  well this. when I started tinkering there were none of those kits, and the Ender I have now has pretty much nothing in common with the Ender I bought back then except some parts of the frame and the drives. and still the whole journey cost was about the same as just buying Prusa and then learning nothing. this is a bit philosophical, but when you do want to shape material, be it wood or plastic, you have to not only understand how it's done, but to feel it. or you will repeatedly end up with crap and then endlessly wonder what went wrong this cannot be bought, it's experience. for 3d-printing the fastest way is to get something like Ender and then build your own perfect printer out of it over several years.

lloydatkinson 1y ago

> If you want relatively good support and to support a company that has a history of giving back, Prusa. Someone in a HN thread a couple of weeks ago said when you turn one of these on the companies CEO's face is used as the boot screen...

Wololooo 1y ago

> I would prefer something that doesn't phone home and can work offline. Opensource firmware/software and repairability are important. Bambulabs is out.

windexh8er 1y ago

If OP isn't in huge hurry I'd also add the impending Snapmaker U1 [0] to the list. It looks like it's going to be a better machine than Bambu has out in the long run for cheaper and much more in-line with one that you have full control of, unlike Bambu. [0] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/snapmaker/snapmaker-u1-color-3d-printer-5x-more-speed-5x-less-waste https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/snapmaker/snapmaker-u1-...

1024core 1y ago

> If you want a large printer that's decent for tinkering, Sovol SV08. I disagree about Sovol the company though. I have a Sovol SV07 in the garage gathering dust. Its printer head got all clogged up and when I complained to them, they just sent me a random part with no information on what to do with it. I guess I could get into the tinkering mode, but who has the time? I'd just love to have a sub-$1000 printer which prints whenever I have something to print (which is not too often, I concede), and does a fantastic job of it.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

motbus3 1y ago

Can I use custom slicer or other firmware/software with a BL?

amelius 1y ago

Bambu is very slow with starting up a print. Even if you just printed something less than a minute ago, it will take at least a few minutes before it can do the next print.

bmitc 1y ago

> If you don't care about business practices and general privacy concerns What are the actual concerns here? What has Bambu done that other 3D printer companies haven't?

Dork1234 1y ago

Creality K1 SE is only $50 more over the Ender 3 SE right now. Much better deal.