6 ms·

> The Finder made all the same mistakes as Windows did. Tbf, the Finder is still crap (if only it would be nearly as good as Windows Explorer was in its heyday

> The Finder made all the same mistakes as Windows did. Tbf, the Finder is still crap (if only it would be nearly as good as Windows Explorer was in its heyday I would probably use it more), and the UNIX terminal is pretty much needed to make a Mac usable in the first place - which is fine though, because the UNIX-ness was exactly why I switched to Mac ;)

8fingerlouie 1y ago
> Tbf, the Finder is still crap (if only it would be nearly as good as Windows Explorer was in its heyday I would probably use it more) I have the exact opposite opinion. I loathe Windows Explorer, and relatively simply stuff like presenting a tree view is apparently some weird magic trick that only Apple has figured out how to do. Browsing SMB shares (or any other networked storage) is one shortcut away (cmd+k), and I don't need to visit control panel to enable weird subsystems that expose services on my machine to connect to other machines. I use the terminal a lot, also for simple file operations, but that is because of proficiency, not out of need.
- nikau 1y ago
  How is \\server\share any harder than finder?
  - pasc1878 1y ago
    You have to type it. Finder shows them in the sidebar and you just click on it. Apple OS (both classic and NeXTStep) are not keyboard driven but mouse driven.
    - efdee 1y ago
      Same for Explorer, really. The SMB hosts that announce themselves show up in the sidebar.
- theshrike79 1y ago
  ...but the SMB implementation on macOS is shit. Try to browse any network directory with a non-trivial amount of files and see the whole Finder window just beach-ball or freeze. I can browse my NAS faster via a browser and copyparty[0] than with Finder and SMB or NFS... [0] https://github.com/9001/copyparty https://github.com/9001/copyparty
  - ndiddy 1y ago
    Yeah I don’t know how they made it so bad. On Windows & Linux, using an SMB share basically gives you the same experience as using a USB hard drive connected directly to the machine. On Mac, you have to wait 30 seconds every time you open a directory. Then when you’re finally at the directory you want and start copying files, the speed slows down to a crawl as the copy progresses. I find it especially confusing because Apple offers 10 Gbit networking for their desktops at an additional fee. What’s the point of having that option when their shitty SMB implementation makes doing anything on your LAN far slower than 1 Gbit anyway?
- wazoox 1y ago
  on my Mac, the finder systematically fails to display the most recent downloaded files, or files synchronized through Nextcloud, under "recent files". For some reason, it always displays some random selection of recently used files. It's completely useless. In fact, I look for recent files using "find" in the terminal. At least this work. On my Linux laptop, Nautilus (Gnome) displays exactly the last files in the right order, and it's incredibly useful. There are countless annoyances like this on MacOS; window focus and placement always surprises and annoys me, even if Rectangle helps somewhat. I find it so much less usable and useful than Gnome.
  - coldtea 1y ago
    >or files synchronized through Nextcloud, under "recent files" Are those created/updated with the current date when they sync, or with the date they have on the host system?
    - wazoox 1y ago
      They come with their original creation date, as they should be : files synchronized across several machines must have the same metadata on all machines. And in Gnome, it just works (they have the right date, and appear as new when they are newly synchronised, even if their timestamp is epoch 0).
- skeletal88 1y ago
  Finder isnt crap? Why can't i paste a path and just go to it like I can in Windows or KDE, why can't I cut and paste files? Why do i have to open 2 separate windows and drag the files between them? Who decided that it is somehow useful to leave an applocation running when you close its window? There are so many silly and stupid small things wrong with os x
  - chrisandchris 1y ago
    You can: Copy current path: Option + Command + C [1] Cut & paste: Alt + Command + Move (actually moves the file) It's just bad that these simple things are very much hidden. [1] https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/47216/copying-the-current-directorys-path-to-the-clipboard https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/47216/copying-the-...
    - leptons 1y ago
      It moves the file? That's not the use case. The use case is copying a path and pasting it into the address bar of Explorer, and then Explorer showing the contents of the path. No file action is implied.
      - chrisandchris 1y ago
        Ah, I misread. Alt + Command + G should do the trick (Go to Path)
        deadlocked 1y ago
        You didn't misread, parent did.
  - LgWoodenBadger 1y ago
    Shift-Command-G - "Go to folder..." "Why can't i paste a path and just go to it like I can in Windows or KDE?"
  - seec 1y ago
- leptons 1y ago
  >I loathe Windows Explorer, and relatively simply stuff like presenting a tree view is apparently some weird magic trick that only Apple has figured out how to do. Is this a joke? This has to be a joke. Finder is so lame compared to Explorer that I'm reading it as a joke. >Browsing SMB shares (or any other networked storage) is one shortcut away (cmd+k), and I don't need to visit control panel to enable weird subsystems that expose services on my machine to connect to other machines. Uh... MacOS is nowhere near easier with SMB shares than Windows. You are dead wrong about all of this. SMB works out-of-the-box with Windows, you open Explorer and the "Network" is there, which will show available network shares. You could make it an icon on the desktop if you wanted to and then just click to open (not how I would do it, but you could). Or you can type \\servername in the Explorer address bar and get a list of all its shares, and there are probably many other ways for different use cases too. MacOS has been difficult with SMB shares for us, especially with Finder - when we mount an SMB share in Finder they just stop responding eventually for no reason, there's no error - they just can't be reached anymore, requiring us to re-mount the share. But on Windows they always just work, no exception, no problem, 100% of the time - and no, that is not an exaggeration. There's very few things in tech that I would say works 100% of the time for me, but SMB on Windows is one of them.
olalonde 1y ago
What's crap about Finder?
- rrr_oh_man 1y ago
  It's slow and doesn't... find stuff.
- oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
  For me, the keyboard (in)accessibility is the biggest issue. On Windows I got used to navigating Explorer completely with the keyboard — this was a LONG time ago, I have no idea of the current state. On macOS, it's just impossible (or, at the very least (but I doubt), impractical). Other issues: - the fact that you cannot cut and paste files - dragging files from one folder to another can be unreliable/error-prone, particularly in tree view
  - nullbyte808 1y ago
    I lost track of how many times ive lost data to cut.
  - rouvax 1y ago
    > - the fact that you cannot cut and paste files Back in time I also complained about this, but do you know that if you copy (CMD+C) then do CMD+ALT+V, then copy&paste becomes cut&paste ?
    - elcritch 1y ago
      Also cmd-up arrow and cmd-down arrow to go up and down folders. You can also click on the title to get a list view of the current folder and its parents.
    - oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
      Thanks for the tip. It's not as convenient as CMD+X, CMD+V, but I might see if I can commit it to memory.
rrr_oh_man 1y ago
> Tbf, the Finder is still crap (if only it would be nearly as good as Windows Explorer was in its heyday I would probably use it more) Try Alfred :)
- cmoski 1y ago
  Or Marta. Finder is an absolute piece of sh*t.
madeofpalk 1y ago
Of course, it's all about what you're used to. But after 6 years on Windows as my daily driver I still prefer Finder. It's tree/table view is superior to the Details view in Explorer. Explorer regularly hangs when opening folders with more than a couple videos in it. QuickLook (spacebar to preview an item) is so useful.
tpm 1y ago
Windows Explorer was never good. The only file manager app type (on Windows/Linux, never used a Mac) that makes sense to me is one of the "Commander" ones. Like Total Commander, but rather than a specific app the point here is the two-pane style that greatly expands what is easily possible to do with a few clicks.
mdemare 1y ago
Until the day when I can right-click on a folder and create a folder inside that folder, I'll consider the Finder inferior to the Windows 98 explorer. Come on, that's an absolute basic feature! The right-click context menu of a folder has 15 items! Most of them I've never used! Colors, tags, quick actions, compress, make alias? But no "New Folder"? But I moved to the mac, in 2005, because of the unix terminal. I had been using Cygwin for years, but an OS that had it included, natively? On good hardware? Yes, please. I'm never moving back to Windows (ads in the OS??). To switch to linux it would take great hardware with 100% support. Not holding my breath, but it might happen one day.
waffletower 1y ago
While I agree with your overall 4-letter assessment, Windows Explorer in any so-called "heyday" was always deserving of your same 4-letter assessment in comparison to Apple Finder.

8fingerlouie 1y ago

> Tbf, the Finder is still crap (if only it would be nearly as good as Windows Explorer was in its heyday I would probably use it more) I have the exact opposite opinion. I loathe Windows Explorer, and relatively simply stuff like presenting a tree view is apparently some weird magic trick that only Apple has figured out how to do. Browsing SMB shares (or any other networked storage) is one shortcut away (cmd+k), and I don't need to visit control panel to enable weird subsystems that expose services on my machine to connect to other machines. I use the terminal a lot, also for simple file operations, but that is because of proficiency, not out of need.

nikau 1y ago
How is \\server\share any harder than finder?
- pasc1878 1y ago
  You have to type it. Finder shows them in the sidebar and you just click on it. Apple OS (both classic and NeXTStep) are not keyboard driven but mouse driven.
  - efdee 1y ago
    Same for Explorer, really. The SMB hosts that announce themselves show up in the sidebar.
theshrike79 1y ago
...but the SMB implementation on macOS is shit. Try to browse any network directory with a non-trivial amount of files and see the whole Finder window just beach-ball or freeze. I can browse my NAS faster via a browser and copyparty[0] than with Finder and SMB or NFS... [0] https://github.com/9001/copyparty https://github.com/9001/copyparty
- ndiddy 1y ago
  Yeah I don’t know how they made it so bad. On Windows & Linux, using an SMB share basically gives you the same experience as using a USB hard drive connected directly to the machine. On Mac, you have to wait 30 seconds every time you open a directory. Then when you’re finally at the directory you want and start copying files, the speed slows down to a crawl as the copy progresses. I find it especially confusing because Apple offers 10 Gbit networking for their desktops at an additional fee. What’s the point of having that option when their shitty SMB implementation makes doing anything on your LAN far slower than 1 Gbit anyway?
wazoox 1y ago
on my Mac, the finder systematically fails to display the most recent downloaded files, or files synchronized through Nextcloud, under "recent files". For some reason, it always displays some random selection of recently used files. It's completely useless. In fact, I look for recent files using "find" in the terminal. At least this work. On my Linux laptop, Nautilus (Gnome) displays exactly the last files in the right order, and it's incredibly useful. There are countless annoyances like this on MacOS; window focus and placement always surprises and annoys me, even if Rectangle helps somewhat. I find it so much less usable and useful than Gnome.
- coldtea 1y ago
  >or files synchronized through Nextcloud, under "recent files" Are those created/updated with the current date when they sync, or with the date they have on the host system?
  - wazoox 1y ago
    They come with their original creation date, as they should be : files synchronized across several machines must have the same metadata on all machines. And in Gnome, it just works (they have the right date, and appear as new when they are newly synchronised, even if their timestamp is epoch 0).
skeletal88 1y ago
Finder isnt crap? Why can't i paste a path and just go to it like I can in Windows or KDE, why can't I cut and paste files? Why do i have to open 2 separate windows and drag the files between them? Who decided that it is somehow useful to leave an applocation running when you close its window? There are so many silly and stupid small things wrong with os x
- chrisandchris 1y ago
  You can: Copy current path: Option + Command + C [1] Cut & paste: Alt + Command + Move (actually moves the file) It's just bad that these simple things are very much hidden. [1] https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/47216/copying-the-current-directorys-path-to-the-clipboard https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/47216/copying-the-...
  - leptons 1y ago
    It moves the file? That's not the use case. The use case is copying a path and pasting it into the address bar of Explorer, and then Explorer showing the contents of the path. No file action is implied.
    - chrisandchris 1y ago
      Ah, I misread. Alt + Command + G should do the trick (Go to Path)
      - deadlocked 1y ago
        You didn't misread, parent did.
- LgWoodenBadger 1y ago
  Shift-Command-G - "Go to folder..." "Why can't i paste a path and just go to it like I can in Windows or KDE?"
- seec 1y ago
leptons 1y ago
>I loathe Windows Explorer, and relatively simply stuff like presenting a tree view is apparently some weird magic trick that only Apple has figured out how to do. Is this a joke? This has to be a joke. Finder is so lame compared to Explorer that I'm reading it as a joke. >Browsing SMB shares (or any other networked storage) is one shortcut away (cmd+k), and I don't need to visit control panel to enable weird subsystems that expose services on my machine to connect to other machines. Uh... MacOS is nowhere near easier with SMB shares than Windows. You are dead wrong about all of this. SMB works out-of-the-box with Windows, you open Explorer and the "Network" is there, which will show available network shares. You could make it an icon on the desktop if you wanted to and then just click to open (not how I would do it, but you could). Or you can type \\servername in the Explorer address bar and get a list of all its shares, and there are probably many other ways for different use cases too. MacOS has been difficult with SMB shares for us, especially with Finder - when we mount an SMB share in Finder they just stop responding eventually for no reason, there's no error - they just can't be reached anymore, requiring us to re-mount the share. But on Windows they always just work, no exception, no problem, 100% of the time - and no, that is not an exaggeration. There's very few things in tech that I would say works 100% of the time for me, but SMB on Windows is one of them.

olalonde 1y ago

What's crap about Finder?

rrr_oh_man 1y ago
It's slow and doesn't... find stuff.
oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
For me, the keyboard (in)accessibility is the biggest issue. On Windows I got used to navigating Explorer completely with the keyboard — this was a LONG time ago, I have no idea of the current state. On macOS, it's just impossible (or, at the very least (but I doubt), impractical). Other issues: - the fact that you cannot cut and paste files - dragging files from one folder to another can be unreliable/error-prone, particularly in tree view
- nullbyte808 1y ago
  I lost track of how many times ive lost data to cut.
- rouvax 1y ago
  > - the fact that you cannot cut and paste files Back in time I also complained about this, but do you know that if you copy (CMD+C) then do CMD+ALT+V, then copy&paste becomes cut&paste ?
  - elcritch 1y ago
    Also cmd-up arrow and cmd-down arrow to go up and down folders. You can also click on the title to get a list view of the current folder and its parents.
  - oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
    Thanks for the tip. It's not as convenient as CMD+X, CMD+V, but I might see if I can commit it to memory.

rrr_oh_man 1y ago

> Tbf, the Finder is still crap (if only it would be nearly as good as Windows Explorer was in its heyday I would probably use it more) Try Alfred :)

cmoski 1y ago
Or Marta. Finder is an absolute piece of sh*t.

madeofpalk 1y ago

Of course, it's all about what you're used to. But after 6 years on Windows as my daily driver I still prefer Finder. It's tree/table view is superior to the Details view in Explorer. Explorer regularly hangs when opening folders with more than a couple videos in it. QuickLook (spacebar to preview an item) is so useful.

tpm 1y ago

Windows Explorer was never good. The only file manager app type (on Windows/Linux, never used a Mac) that makes sense to me is one of the "Commander" ones. Like Total Commander, but rather than a specific app the point here is the two-pane style that greatly expands what is easily possible to do with a few clicks.

mdemare 1y ago

Until the day when I can right-click on a folder and create a folder inside that folder, I'll consider the Finder inferior to the Windows 98 explorer. Come on, that's an absolute basic feature! The right-click context menu of a folder has 15 items! Most of them I've never used! Colors, tags, quick actions, compress, make alias? But no "New Folder"? But I moved to the mac, in 2005, because of the unix terminal. I had been using Cygwin for years, but an OS that had it included, natively? On good hardware? Yes, please. I'm never moving back to Windows (ads in the OS??). To switch to linux it would take great hardware with 100% support. Not holding my breath, but it might happen one day.

waffletower 1y ago

While I agree with your overall 4-letter assessment, Windows Explorer in any so-called "heyday" was always deserving of your same 4-letter assessment in comparison to Apple Finder.