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Notably, still less than in any country in the European Union: given the lifestyle, is this a matter of the health care system, I guess? Anyway given that rand
by antirez 1y ago
Notably, still less than in any country in the European Union: given the lifestyle, is this a matter of the health care system, I guess?
Anyway given that random EU folks live longer without switching to 1800 lifestyle, looks like there are better options.
- boomskats 1y agoI don't disagree, but could you provide some references/links to the datasets you're basing this on?
- apwell23 1y ago> , is this a matter of the health care system EUs have lower chronic diseases like diabetes and hypertension than USA. Those are not diseases that have any answers in medical system so it wouldn't matter how advanced and available the system is. For example, 40% of ppl in usa are obese vs 12% Switzerland. 50% of ppl in usa have hypertension vs 20% Swiss. So what exactly is a medical system supposed to do if half your population is sickly and obese ? I see this 'medical system' stuff even from very educated ppl but I feel like i am missing something. Do ppl think having access to a doctor is going prevent one from being obese ? whats the logic.
- alistairSH 1y agoI suppose if you extend the definition of "medical system" to include education and intervention, it makes sense. There's also medications in there - hypertension can be controlled with drugs, no? But, yes, I agree with your main point - obesity in the US is widespread and a massive influence on both longevity and health care costs.
- deanmen 1y agoNowadays maybe they could get Ozempic?
- n4r9 1y ago> Do ppl think having access to a doctor is going prevent one from being obese ? whats the logic. Doctors can vary in whether or not (and for how long) they advocate trying a healthy diet and exercise before prescribing drugs. In the UK the system is incentivised to avoid drug prescriptions unless necessary, as it reduces the financial burden on the NHS - both for buying the drugs and for managing complications linked to obesity. In the US, pharma companies can offer money and perks to doctors who promote their products.
- apwell23 1y agoI have hard time accepting that ppl stop being obese only if their doctor tells them 'eat healthy and move more' . Why do ppl believe this kind of stuff. It is so bizarre and defies any commonsense.
- johannes1234321 1y agoIf just the doctor tells it, it won't have much impact. If health education/advertisement from public funds frames it, it has impact. Of course there is the role of availability of options, but they come from demand, which comes from the above.
- n4r9 1y agoSome people have no idea how to diet or exercise, or have no idea that they're overweight, or have specialised conditions that make it hard to follow generic advice. These people might find it really valuable to receive individualised advice and education from their doctor. Also this would often be in the context of the patient coming to the doctor with a complaint. If the doctor says "trying eating healthily and exercising, then come back in a month for a follow-up", some might just do nothing but many people will actually try it.
- thrance 1y agoHaving a socialized healthcare system incentivizes the government to ban the worst public heath offenders. High fructose corn syrup would have been long gone from most foods in a sane society, for example. Generally, making the government have a vested interest in its citizenry's good health is a good thing.
- apwell23 1y agono country with socialized medicine has banned hfcs. EU has lower hfcs due to trade reasons not from health advocacy.
- Aurornis 1y agoThe difference doesn’t come down to one single factor. Comments that try to reduce population-scale differences to a single factor, like access to healthcare, are overly reductive. When it comes to obesity (not using being overweight, but truly past the obese threshold) you don’t need a doctor to inform you that it’s unhealthy. The reductive claims about access to healthcare are also ignoring the fact that people in the US do actually use a lot of healthcare. The rate of GLP-1 use in America for weight loss is around 1 in 8 people, which is significantly higher than anywhere in Europe last time I checked. Obviously the higher obesity rate contributes to higher usage, but it demonstrates that many obese people in the United States are not lacking access to health care.
- markus_zhang 1y agoI realized that I ate way more chocolate than average Swiss people (Googled and it says around 24 grams per day for average people in Switzerland). I usually eat about 50 grams daily...and 72% dark
- wiether 1y agoYou quote: > , is this a matter of the health care system And you say: > I see this 'medical system' stuff To me there is a big difference between a "health care system" and a "medical system". One is only here to try and fix issues, while the other will invest in prevention campains and help direct the overall politics around having an healthy population. To me the recent EPA decision around PFAs is a signal of a deficient "health care system".
- apwell23 1y agonow the definition is so nebulous , no one know what the other person is talking about. It can include things like economic system and I can say 'for me stock market is the health care system' .
- ath3nd 1y ago[dead]
- jansan 1y agoWithout any scientific evidence just by observing the lifestyle I am almost certain that the "secret" lies in nutrition.
- chiffre01 1y agoThey also have a cohesive family and social circles. Probably can't hurt?
- washadjeffmad 1y agoThat seems to be the commonality with Seventh Day Adventists, as well.
- hluska 1y agoWhen I was very young, my stepfather started a trucking company. We didn’t get along terribly well so my mom thought that driving together would solve our problems. We would hotshot recreational vehicles two to a flatbed and haul them from an Amish community east of Chicago to their dealer destination. So, we got to know some people in the community and learned some things that would be relevant to this. One big one is the Amish view on technology. With 1965 data, especially looking at farmers, you’ll see variations in pest control tech. Amish people are not against all technology but they evaluate it differently. For the Amish, they look at a technology and ask whether it will pull them together or push them apart. Farm chemicals would increase yields, but dramatically reduce the number of people they could have working on fields. So many colonies avoided highly toxic chemicals like DDT that were released during or after WW2. And because there was some resistance to Amish people, they tend to congregate together and so you’ll have colonies bunched up in areas - some colonies avoided water table contamination through a freak of geology and cousins who shared a belief on technology. So nutrition does play a role - food in Amish communities is very whole and very close to natural. As an example, my stepfather was quite affable and so we’d take doughnuts to the factory where we picked up RVs. Certain companies have so much sugar in their doughnuts that it felt like giving people drugs. Physical activity is a constant. And their community plays a massive role in life and life expectancy but this data is from 1965 and looks at farmers so chemical use is definitely part of these findings as well.
- Brendinooo 1y ago>still less than in any country in the European Union In the birth cohorts that the study was looking at? Do you have data to support this?
- supermatt 1y agoI’m not convinced that’s the case for the studied birth cohorts (1890-1930) given the loss of male life in Europe through the world wars.
- Mistletoe 1y ago> looks like there are better options. I wouldn’t say that, imagine an Amish lifestyle of lots of exercise and no screens mixed with EU better healthcare.
- bluGill 1y agoNo screens is a good assumption for everyone at the time the study covered - TVs were just coming out towards the end, and were expensive enough that not everyone owned one yet.
- hluska 1y agoBased on births and deaths from 1965? We’ll need to see some data on that.
- rossdavidh 1y ago1) The Amish do not live an 1800 lifestyle. For example, if someone is sick and needs to go to the hospital, they use a phone to call an ambulance to take them there. 2) There are a lot of things wrong with the American health care system, but a lack of care for white males is not actually one of them.
- aarond0623 1y ago> There are a lot of things wrong with the American health care system, but a lack of care for white males is not actually one of them. A lack of care for those who can't afford it is, though.
- greenavocado 1y agoUS hospital waiting rooms are filled with poor people btw. https://www.cms.gov/priorities/your-patient-rights/emergency-room-rights https://www.cms.gov/priorities/your-patient-rights/emergency... You have rights in an emergency room under EMTALA Doctor talking to a patient You have these protections: 1. An appropriate medical screening exam to check for an emergency medical condition, and if you have one, 2. Treatment until your emergency medical condition is stabilized, or 3. An appropriate transfer to another hospital if you need it The law that gives everyone in the U.S. these protections is the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, also known as "EMTALA." This law helps prevent any hospital emergency department that receives Medicare funds (which includes most U.S. hospitals) from refusing to treat patients.
- runjake 1y agoI almost want to disagree with you here but I’m not fully apprised of the greater situation. My dad is poor and neglectful of himself. He had a stroke. He got ambulanced to the emergency room and spent a good deal of time there. The hospital discussed billing which was several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Well he can’t afford that. The hospital had us talk to some advisers and they got him on a state Medicaid (?) plan. The plan retroactively paid for it all. He then got checked out for a variety of other issues including a severe spinal issue and a hip replacement for 0 out of pocket. It’s great. He’s a changed man who is active and takes care of himself now. I also had a major medical event and I have since paid tens of thousands out of pocket after insurance. At one point we were investigating if I could essentially quit work for a bit, go on the Medicaid plan, get better, and then go back to my job. That is madness!
- antirez 1y agoEDIT: Sorry didn't realize it was for the specified range! So I doubt my comment makes sense in light of that.