8 ms·

If my kids excel, will they move away?

240 points by azhenley 1y ago

parsimo2010 1y ago
This is well written, concise, and outlines a problem that most people would call “political” without being hostile to other people (while still making it clear what the problem is). Great job, I wish we had more opinion pieces like this. Also, I agree 100%. Some people don’t like foreigners at US schools, thinking that those foreigners are taking spots away from worthy Americans. I think the only thing worse is if the foreigners stop wanting to come to US schools because of the implications about how far the American education system has fallen.
- cs_throwaway 1y ago
  This won't convince anyone who wants to pause all immigration. However, if you want to allow some immigration, you can make a case PhDs in computer science from Carnegie Mellon, which is what he's talking about. These are kids who were already world-class coming in and become even better by the time they graduate. It is paid for by taxpayers, for which they should be grateful, and it is done in a context that builds admiration for the country.
- foxyv 1y ago
  As I understand it, foreign students pretty much pay for a lot of US Schools. Anyone who has had to pay out of state tuition knows what's happening. So essentially, the more foreign students, the more spots for American students. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/23/upshot/harvard-trump-international-students.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/23/upshot/harvard-trump-inte...
  - cs_throwaway 1y ago
    The "kids" in the original article are likely PhD students. They are not paying tuition. You and I are likely paying for their education with taxes. (This is likely a small part of the overall higher education picture.)
- alephnerd 1y ago
  And, more critically - if foreigners are deciding to take up faculty positions in their home countries. Countries like India, Vietnam, and South Korea have begun replicating the Chinese Thousand Talents program to attract their diasporas back to domestic academia. Significant domains of CS such as HPC/Systems, Networking, OS internals, etc are heavily dependent on faculty, graduate students, and post-docs who are all on some sort of visa. And increasingly, at least amongst Indians, becuase the backlogs for US citizenship are insane, a number of those people have been taking sweetheart positions at INIs like the new IITs with almost US$100k in public-private lab startup grants on top of a $20k salary (tax free due to the income tax changes) with free housing and car and complete autonomy to consult with private sector players without IP entanglement (one of the biggest headaches for public private STEM R&D partnerships in the US). Vietnam is doing something similar as well to attract Vietnamese diaspora in SK and Japan, along with Viet Kieu in America and Australia. A nativist academic culture in STEM in the US would completely destroy any R&D capacity that even exists today.
  - XorNot 1y ago
    This is one of the reasons India has a civilian spaceflight program. The obvious overlap with military technology aside, it's a way to retain and increase the institutional knowledge within India across a lot of areas.
    - alephnerd 1y ago
      This is why all regional powers have a civilian space flight program - the same thing you mentioned but also it allows you to sidestep some international treaties around testing.
    - anukin 1y ago
      Indian spaceflight program done by ISRO have very few people from IITs or any of the so called elite colleges. Unlike china Indian colleges are really backward due to lack of research funding and a coaching industry which have gamified the entrance exams.
      - 1y ago
- dclowd9901 1y ago
  I understand the need to frame arguments in an objective and clinical way. At the same time, it's frustrating because it just feels like being so distant emotionally doesn't drive deep enough into the way the current environment shakes so many people to their cores. It's an egregious assault on individual experiences and there's no real way to sugarcoat that. You can deport illegal immigrants without taking away their dignity and without frightening the ever living shit out of everyone. But this isn't that. The intention is fear.
  - itsoktocry 1y ago
    The fact that you think Trump is running a scam on foolish people, while the natural state of things is an altruistic Democratic government is why you lost and will likely continue to lose. The "Democratic"/"left wing" platform is not as popular as you believe; not in the US, not in England, not in Canada, not in Germany... This all stems from backlash against those policies. You need to fix the issues, not tell people "you voted for the wrong guy".
    - spwa4 1y ago
      Exactly. People forget this, and "forget" this, but democracy's power is not based on picking the best (or even merely not disastrous) rulers. Italy, Germany and more recently Russia illustrate that pretty disastrous choices have been made by democratic institutions (I don't mean the Ukraine war, I mean electing Putin in the first place). Democracy's power is almost entirely in voting out bad rulers without destroying the entire country. That's why a great deal of people's ideas of democracy are ridiculous. For example, democracy can tolerate the existence of fake news or terrible/fake science, just go read newspapers from the interwar period. Take an alternative of the islamist gulf monarchies. They'll end in destruction and fire, war or revolution, because that's the only way to replace the government, so you can pretty much guarantee that's what will (eventually) happen. The simple truth one hopes America, including democrats, can embrace is that Biden was bad, and allowing him to cling to power was horrible (if he'd made Ms. Harris president halfway through his presidency, THAT might have worked). What was done during the election ... seriously? Yes, Trump is worse (and he'll be voted out, or at least take the GOP down, like he did before), but that doesn't matter in most people's minds. Besides, taking the "least bad" option, what democrats generally advocate these days, is how Italy and Germany destroyed their democracy (Mussulini and Hitler were put in power, not elected, because any other choice would have resulted in civil war. How that worked? Easy: they instructed their supporters to fight until they were the least bad option, and the police couldn't keep control. Which is why I think countries like France are playing with fire since every extreme party in France and Germany, the various extreme left, right, green is trying the same playbook now: elect them or they sabotage the entire country. Why? Same reason Hitler did it: he only had maybe 20% of people really behind him. But 20% of the population can sabotage the entire country, easily. Of course, Hitler was the only one doing it, and these parties are not)
- sfifs 1y ago
  We're starting to see the impact. A number of our older peers have kids beginning to graduate high school or undergrad. I personally know of 3 situations this fall/next spring already where very talented kids have chosen European schools this year over Ivy League admits
wrs 1y ago
We can only hope this administration and its supporters are a temporary aberration that the US can claw its way back out of. Otherwise, that classic advice to sign up your kids for Mandarin class starts to sound pretty good.
- windowshopping 1y ago
  Why would moving to an even more authoritarian country be good advice? What?
  - wrs 1y ago
    Because if you want to get a good science education, you need to be in a place that supports science and education. The administration has disrupted the system that made the US the world scientific leader, a status it’s had only since the mid-20th century, which it achieved through concerted government and social investment. Which country is doing that right now? In 1930, if you wanted access to the great science universities and literature, you learned German. Things can change. Quickly.
  - XorNot 1y ago
    The point is you'll be doing business in high technology with China, not America. Helps to speak the language when you negotiate.
    - alephnerd 1y ago
      I disagree with that. Instead we are seeing increased siloing of scientific domains. The EU is cracking down on EU-Chinese research cooperation (as recent arrests and deportations in France have shown), India still has a de facto freeze on Chinese R&D and China is still enforcing export controls on IP to India, and South Korea and Japan are still controlling any IP generated from their industrial research fusion programs. We're instead seeing at least 6-7 different scientific and capital ecosystems forming, and with collaboration being tightly controlled by governments.
      - 1y ago
microsofti 1y ago
[flagged]
frays 1y ago
[flagged]
firesteelrain 1y ago
I am struggling with the premise of this post. The analogies don’t seem to land very well
- 3cKU 1y ago
  There are several premises: 1. CMU needs immigration to remain a top school. 2. His children will be in the top 1% of 1% of 1% to qualify for top schools. 3. His children will move away if CMU does not remain a top school... 4. and that would be bad, so bad that it justifies perpetual rent stress for 100 million Americans, an actual impact of immigration.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
kousthub 1y ago
This post sounds a bit one sided. Maybe there should be centre of excellences elsewhere too. Let the others live near their parent’s farms as well.
- Nervhq 1y ago
  Proof he's right wing? Source?
- Taek 1y ago
  This is the sort of attitude that allows nations to fall. If a nation isn't protecting it's most valuable resources, they will be taken away by others who want them.
- abalashov 1y ago
  Of course there should be. However, those nations should worry about that on behalf of their citizens. No other nation is going to concern itself with whether Americans can live close to their parents.
- thatfrenchguy 1y ago
  Yup, the author is in a fairly rare fortunate situation for someone who is good in his field. A lot of us moved countries or continents to be good at our jobs, and there is always a personal cost. Although, for grandkids, I guess that when you are far you are also more intentional with making sure you spend time with their grandparents when they are far.
- kelnos 1y ago
  As a global citizen of Earth, I would agree. But I'm also a citizen of the United States, and have a vested personal interest in its academic and economic superiority. And I think that's normal. You don't even have to be nationalistic or patriotic about your particular country to feel that way. Academic and economic declines in any country will cause problems for everyone who lives there.
- j7ake 1y ago
  There are plenty. The author is over exaggerating the prestige of CMU compared to other institutes outside of the USA. Just in the western countries: Toronto, Cambridge, ENS in France, the many max Planck institutes in Germany (eg Tubingen), the two federal institutes in Switzerland. Faculty positions in any of those are likely to be better than CMU (in terms of start up package, funding, quality of students, quality of faculty, and ability to hire people).
tootie 1y ago
My oldest is applying to college right now and this has worried me immensely. College isn't going to be the same anymore. Dark forces are working hard to discourage discourse and diversity. I want to support institutions that still stand for something and value truth and enlightenment but it's hard to know if we're succeeding.
- buckle8017 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
    I wish the people who cared so much about Charlie Kirk gave even one thought to the victims of the right wing school shooter that happened the very same day in Colorado.
    - Balgair 1y ago
      It didn't make it out much in the news that day, because obviously, but only the shooter died as a result of his terror. The other two injured students are expected to live, thankfully: https://coloradosun.com/2025/09/11/colorado-evergreen-high-school-shooting-vigil/ https://coloradosun.com/2025/09/11/colorado-evergreen-high-s...
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
rKarpinski 1y ago
[flagged]
- qgin 1y ago
  It's at least a contender
  - rKarpinski 1y ago
    Of course!
- js2 1y ago
  > Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - rKarpinski 1y ago
    Is that the most provocative thing in the article? I thought it was just puffery.
duxup 1y ago
This whole politics being practiced by excluding others or by just generally being a jerk ... I don't get it. It's like throwing a fit, it's not going anywhere good.
kashunstva 1y ago
My wife, daughter and I are Canadian-U.S. dual citizens. We live in Canada. It is exhausting trying to reason through the decision of how to advise our 17 year-old on her post-secondary plans. She has opportunities to study at eminent institutions in the U.S. but is it wise? The broad attack on U.S. education at the hands of the current administration is extremely off-putting.
- apparent 1y ago
  She already has offers from eminent institutions? Has early decision/action even happened yet? Or is she a recruited athlete?
- novok 1y ago
  IMO it depends on the field and her scholarships. If it's tech, just go to waterloo, it's a great school, has a great reputation and you get the Canadian discount, if it's not, you have more research to do. With her professors not having as much grant work to do, they might actually focus on teaching for once! As an undergrad, research doesn't matter much and no 17 year old is certain they want to become a PhD researcher type at that age. Otherwise as dual citizens it's overblown. There is a lot of hot air in Canada that doesn't match the on the boots on the ground reality of life in the USA (for citizens / green card holders) because Canada is pissed off that America caused a downturn in Canada's economy and Canadians feel the pinch because the downturn is about 25% worse in Canada as a result. But IMO it's self inflicted wound and has been a very, very long time coming. Canada has kept on kicking the economic can down the road for decades now and it's toll is collecting interest more and more. The political worker class in DC is also very pissed off because the administration there initiated the equivalent of extreme mass layoffs in a sector that is not used to that. In the USA, people are kind of mopey about the downturn, but in democratic areas the level of emotion is far less than it was with trump was the first time, while in Canada, it seems like it's more intense than it was in California with trump for the first time.
  - riehwvfbk 1y ago
    Yup. Certain people get their panties in a tizzy every time an R president gets elected. Dubya was the antichrist, remember? It's just the same old tune all over again.
wkat4242 1y ago
Some people don't like rural communities anyway. I've lived in a provincial town with about 150k people for a while and that was already too much for me. All the groupthink, the conservative "family values", the way everyone knows everyone, the religion. It really rubbed me the wrong way. Also the lack of resources, the place was the graveyard of ambition. And all the imbecile councillors considering themselves the center of the world. Never anything new to explore, few opportunities to find people with different opinions, no really interesting tech (I'm big into the maker community) etc. Things always arrived there last. New initiatives being announced by said councillors only to die off quickly when the novelty wears off. I found the place deeply suffocating and I felt like the world was passing me by. I know some people are happy with their lives there but I certainly was not. I don't want a house with a big garden and peace and quiet. I love living in a neighborhood that's alive. Take this with a grain of salt because I'm very independent, individualist and progressive. I think that was already clear from the above :) I live in a big city now and I love it so much. Excellent public transport so I don't need a car anymore (haven't driven in 7 years), always new things to do and see. New initiatives that actually go somewhere instead of dying out like in the small town. I can imagine people that like to think outside the box and build stuff like me often like to live in bigger places. That's not even education related as such (you can also be self taught) though it does tend to correlate of course. And no I wouldn't think of visiting the US in the current situation, let alone move there to study or work (I'm not in the studying age anymore anyway). I do agree with the author that the current politics would deter skilled people.
- AngryData 1y ago
  There are certainly a lot of people like you describe, but there also many "hippy" types that just like to grow plants or DIY makers. Often they have to do more with less, but cheap land can give people the freedom to do stuff like loud metal working or space to repair older equipment for cheap or grow large gardens. One of the biggest problems though is just the poverty, options are limited and wages are shit and like you mentioned innovations don't make their way into rural areas until like 10+ years later. And if you don't move away to a big city the majority of people are never going to make a lot of money and will often be ignored for most everything except as a source of revenue for podunk courts and cops. Of the highly intelligent and aspirational few that are left, most end up severely stifled by lack of financial opportunity even if they are doing great work because most of their potential customer base are poor too.
weregiraffe 1y ago
If they excel, yes. If they powerpoint, no.
- lukax 1y ago
  word
madduci 1y ago
Although this is correct, the narrative is obviously 100% centered on US perspective. The author worries about the brain drain that could affect places like Pittsburgh, but on the other hand, people is already living it, as my kids just see grandparents once per year, since we live in another country, but there is people who can't even do it on an annual base, because they live far away or in countries considered at risk.
- ipnon 1y ago
  What's surprising to me is that internal migration in the US is actually down from its peak. People today are more likely to live in or close to their hometown than they were in the 20th century. Part of this is simply because urbanization goes only one way.
  - pchristensen 1y ago
    People cannot afford to move to places where the economies are booming, because their standard of living with higher pay and higher costs is the same as if they stayed where they are. Moving to opportunity used to be worth it, but is less so now outside of specific fields.

240 points by azhenley 1y ago

parsimo2010 1y ago

This is well written, concise, and outlines a problem that most people would call “political” without being hostile to other people (while still making it clear what the problem is). Great job, I wish we had more opinion pieces like this. Also, I agree 100%. Some people don’t like foreigners at US schools, thinking that those foreigners are taking spots away from worthy Americans. I think the only thing worse is if the foreigners stop wanting to come to US schools because of the implications about how far the American education system has fallen.

cs_throwaway 1y ago
This won't convince anyone who wants to pause all immigration. However, if you want to allow some immigration, you can make a case PhDs in computer science from Carnegie Mellon, which is what he's talking about. These are kids who were already world-class coming in and become even better by the time they graduate. It is paid for by taxpayers, for which they should be grateful, and it is done in a context that builds admiration for the country.
foxyv 1y ago
As I understand it, foreign students pretty much pay for a lot of US Schools. Anyone who has had to pay out of state tuition knows what's happening. So essentially, the more foreign students, the more spots for American students. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/23/upshot/harvard-trump-international-students.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/23/upshot/harvard-trump-inte...
- cs_throwaway 1y ago
  The "kids" in the original article are likely PhD students. They are not paying tuition. You and I are likely paying for their education with taxes. (This is likely a small part of the overall higher education picture.)
alephnerd 1y ago
And, more critically - if foreigners are deciding to take up faculty positions in their home countries. Countries like India, Vietnam, and South Korea have begun replicating the Chinese Thousand Talents program to attract their diasporas back to domestic academia. Significant domains of CS such as HPC/Systems, Networking, OS internals, etc are heavily dependent on faculty, graduate students, and post-docs who are all on some sort of visa. And increasingly, at least amongst Indians, becuase the backlogs for US citizenship are insane, a number of those people have been taking sweetheart positions at INIs like the new IITs with almost US$100k in public-private lab startup grants on top of a $20k salary (tax free due to the income tax changes) with free housing and car and complete autonomy to consult with private sector players without IP entanglement (one of the biggest headaches for public private STEM R&D partnerships in the US). Vietnam is doing something similar as well to attract Vietnamese diaspora in SK and Japan, along with Viet Kieu in America and Australia. A nativist academic culture in STEM in the US would completely destroy any R&D capacity that even exists today.
- XorNot 1y ago
  This is one of the reasons India has a civilian spaceflight program. The obvious overlap with military technology aside, it's a way to retain and increase the institutional knowledge within India across a lot of areas.
  - alephnerd 1y ago
    This is why all regional powers have a civilian space flight program - the same thing you mentioned but also it allows you to sidestep some international treaties around testing.
  - anukin 1y ago
    Indian spaceflight program done by ISRO have very few people from IITs or any of the so called elite colleges. Unlike china Indian colleges are really backward due to lack of research funding and a coaching industry which have gamified the entrance exams.
    - 1y ago
dclowd9901 1y ago
I understand the need to frame arguments in an objective and clinical way. At the same time, it's frustrating because it just feels like being so distant emotionally doesn't drive deep enough into the way the current environment shakes so many people to their cores. It's an egregious assault on individual experiences and there's no real way to sugarcoat that. You can deport illegal immigrants without taking away their dignity and without frightening the ever living shit out of everyone. But this isn't that. The intention is fear.
- itsoktocry 1y ago
  The fact that you think Trump is running a scam on foolish people, while the natural state of things is an altruistic Democratic government is why you lost and will likely continue to lose. The "Democratic"/"left wing" platform is not as popular as you believe; not in the US, not in England, not in Canada, not in Germany... This all stems from backlash against those policies. You need to fix the issues, not tell people "you voted for the wrong guy".
  - spwa4 1y ago
    Exactly. People forget this, and "forget" this, but democracy's power is not based on picking the best (or even merely not disastrous) rulers. Italy, Germany and more recently Russia illustrate that pretty disastrous choices have been made by democratic institutions (I don't mean the Ukraine war, I mean electing Putin in the first place). Democracy's power is almost entirely in voting out bad rulers without destroying the entire country. That's why a great deal of people's ideas of democracy are ridiculous. For example, democracy can tolerate the existence of fake news or terrible/fake science, just go read newspapers from the interwar period. Take an alternative of the islamist gulf monarchies. They'll end in destruction and fire, war or revolution, because that's the only way to replace the government, so you can pretty much guarantee that's what will (eventually) happen. The simple truth one hopes America, including democrats, can embrace is that Biden was bad, and allowing him to cling to power was horrible (if he'd made Ms. Harris president halfway through his presidency, THAT might have worked). What was done during the election ... seriously? Yes, Trump is worse (and he'll be voted out, or at least take the GOP down, like he did before), but that doesn't matter in most people's minds. Besides, taking the "least bad" option, what democrats generally advocate these days, is how Italy and Germany destroyed their democracy (Mussulini and Hitler were put in power, not elected, because any other choice would have resulted in civil war. How that worked? Easy: they instructed their supporters to fight until they were the least bad option, and the police couldn't keep control. Which is why I think countries like France are playing with fire since every extreme party in France and Germany, the various extreme left, right, green is trying the same playbook now: elect them or they sabotage the entire country. Why? Same reason Hitler did it: he only had maybe 20% of people really behind him. But 20% of the population can sabotage the entire country, easily. Of course, Hitler was the only one doing it, and these parties are not)
sfifs 1y ago
We're starting to see the impact. A number of our older peers have kids beginning to graduate high school or undergrad. I personally know of 3 situations this fall/next spring already where very talented kids have chosen European schools this year over Ivy League admits

wrs 1y ago

We can only hope this administration and its supporters are a temporary aberration that the US can claw its way back out of. Otherwise, that classic advice to sign up your kids for Mandarin class starts to sound pretty good.

windowshopping 1y ago
Why would moving to an even more authoritarian country be good advice? What?
- wrs 1y ago
  Because if you want to get a good science education, you need to be in a place that supports science and education. The administration has disrupted the system that made the US the world scientific leader, a status it’s had only since the mid-20th century, which it achieved through concerted government and social investment. Which country is doing that right now? In 1930, if you wanted access to the great science universities and literature, you learned German. Things can change. Quickly.
- XorNot 1y ago
  The point is you'll be doing business in high technology with China, not America. Helps to speak the language when you negotiate.
  - alephnerd 1y ago
    I disagree with that. Instead we are seeing increased siloing of scientific domains. The EU is cracking down on EU-Chinese research cooperation (as recent arrests and deportations in France have shown), India still has a de facto freeze on Chinese R&D and China is still enforcing export controls on IP to India, and South Korea and Japan are still controlling any IP generated from their industrial research fusion programs. We're instead seeing at least 6-7 different scientific and capital ecosystems forming, and with collaboration being tightly controlled by governments.
    - 1y ago

microsofti 1y ago

[flagged]

frays 1y ago

[flagged]

firesteelrain 1y ago

I am struggling with the premise of this post. The analogies don’t seem to land very well

3cKU 1y ago
There are several premises: 1. CMU needs immigration to remain a top school. 2. His children will be in the top 1% of 1% of 1% to qualify for top schools. 3. His children will move away if CMU does not remain a top school... 4. and that would be bad, so bad that it justifies perpetual rent stress for 100 million Americans, an actual impact of immigration.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

kousthub 1y ago

This post sounds a bit one sided. Maybe there should be centre of excellences elsewhere too. Let the others live near their parent’s farms as well.

Nervhq 1y ago
Proof he's right wing? Source?
Taek 1y ago
This is the sort of attitude that allows nations to fall. If a nation isn't protecting it's most valuable resources, they will be taken away by others who want them.
abalashov 1y ago
Of course there should be. However, those nations should worry about that on behalf of their citizens. No other nation is going to concern itself with whether Americans can live close to their parents.
thatfrenchguy 1y ago
Yup, the author is in a fairly rare fortunate situation for someone who is good in his field. A lot of us moved countries or continents to be good at our jobs, and there is always a personal cost. Although, for grandkids, I guess that when you are far you are also more intentional with making sure you spend time with their grandparents when they are far.
kelnos 1y ago
As a global citizen of Earth, I would agree. But I'm also a citizen of the United States, and have a vested personal interest in its academic and economic superiority. And I think that's normal. You don't even have to be nationalistic or patriotic about your particular country to feel that way. Academic and economic declines in any country will cause problems for everyone who lives there.
j7ake 1y ago
There are plenty. The author is over exaggerating the prestige of CMU compared to other institutes outside of the USA. Just in the western countries: Toronto, Cambridge, ENS in France, the many max Planck institutes in Germany (eg Tubingen), the two federal institutes in Switzerland. Faculty positions in any of those are likely to be better than CMU (in terms of start up package, funding, quality of students, quality of faculty, and ability to hire people).

tootie 1y ago

My oldest is applying to college right now and this has worried me immensely. College isn't going to be the same anymore. Dark forces are working hard to discourage discourse and diversity. I want to support institutions that still stand for something and value truth and enlightenment but it's hard to know if we're succeeding.

buckle8017 1y ago
[flagged]
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  I wish the people who cared so much about Charlie Kirk gave even one thought to the victims of the right wing school shooter that happened the very same day in Colorado.
  - Balgair 1y ago
    It didn't make it out much in the news that day, because obviously, but only the shooter died as a result of his terror. The other two injured students are expected to live, thankfully: https://coloradosun.com/2025/09/11/colorado-evergreen-high-school-shooting-vigil/ https://coloradosun.com/2025/09/11/colorado-evergreen-high-s...
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

rKarpinski 1y ago

[flagged]

qgin 1y ago
It's at least a contender
- rKarpinski 1y ago
  Of course!
js2 1y ago
> Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- rKarpinski 1y ago
  Is that the most provocative thing in the article? I thought it was just puffery.

duxup 1y ago

This whole politics being practiced by excluding others or by just generally being a jerk ... I don't get it. It's like throwing a fit, it's not going anywhere good.

kashunstva 1y ago

My wife, daughter and I are Canadian-U.S. dual citizens. We live in Canada. It is exhausting trying to reason through the decision of how to advise our 17 year-old on her post-secondary plans. She has opportunities to study at eminent institutions in the U.S. but is it wise? The broad attack on U.S. education at the hands of the current administration is extremely off-putting.

apparent 1y ago
She already has offers from eminent institutions? Has early decision/action even happened yet? Or is she a recruited athlete?
novok 1y ago
IMO it depends on the field and her scholarships. If it's tech, just go to waterloo, it's a great school, has a great reputation and you get the Canadian discount, if it's not, you have more research to do. With her professors not having as much grant work to do, they might actually focus on teaching for once! As an undergrad, research doesn't matter much and no 17 year old is certain they want to become a PhD researcher type at that age. Otherwise as dual citizens it's overblown. There is a lot of hot air in Canada that doesn't match the on the boots on the ground reality of life in the USA (for citizens / green card holders) because Canada is pissed off that America caused a downturn in Canada's economy and Canadians feel the pinch because the downturn is about 25% worse in Canada as a result. But IMO it's self inflicted wound and has been a very, very long time coming. Canada has kept on kicking the economic can down the road for decades now and it's toll is collecting interest more and more. The political worker class in DC is also very pissed off because the administration there initiated the equivalent of extreme mass layoffs in a sector that is not used to that. In the USA, people are kind of mopey about the downturn, but in democratic areas the level of emotion is far less than it was with trump was the first time, while in Canada, it seems like it's more intense than it was in California with trump for the first time.
- riehwvfbk 1y ago
  Yup. Certain people get their panties in a tizzy every time an R president gets elected. Dubya was the antichrist, remember? It's just the same old tune all over again.

wkat4242 1y ago

Some people don't like rural communities anyway. I've lived in a provincial town with about 150k people for a while and that was already too much for me. All the groupthink, the conservative "family values", the way everyone knows everyone, the religion. It really rubbed me the wrong way. Also the lack of resources, the place was the graveyard of ambition. And all the imbecile councillors considering themselves the center of the world. Never anything new to explore, few opportunities to find people with different opinions, no really interesting tech (I'm big into the maker community) etc. Things always arrived there last. New initiatives being announced by said councillors only to die off quickly when the novelty wears off. I found the place deeply suffocating and I felt like the world was passing me by. I know some people are happy with their lives there but I certainly was not. I don't want a house with a big garden and peace and quiet. I love living in a neighborhood that's alive. Take this with a grain of salt because I'm very independent, individualist and progressive. I think that was already clear from the above :) I live in a big city now and I love it so much. Excellent public transport so I don't need a car anymore (haven't driven in 7 years), always new things to do and see. New initiatives that actually go somewhere instead of dying out like in the small town. I can imagine people that like to think outside the box and build stuff like me often like to live in bigger places. That's not even education related as such (you can also be self taught) though it does tend to correlate of course. And no I wouldn't think of visiting the US in the current situation, let alone move there to study or work (I'm not in the studying age anymore anyway). I do agree with the author that the current politics would deter skilled people.

AngryData 1y ago
There are certainly a lot of people like you describe, but there also many "hippy" types that just like to grow plants or DIY makers. Often they have to do more with less, but cheap land can give people the freedom to do stuff like loud metal working or space to repair older equipment for cheap or grow large gardens. One of the biggest problems though is just the poverty, options are limited and wages are shit and like you mentioned innovations don't make their way into rural areas until like 10+ years later. And if you don't move away to a big city the majority of people are never going to make a lot of money and will often be ignored for most everything except as a source of revenue for podunk courts and cops. Of the highly intelligent and aspirational few that are left, most end up severely stifled by lack of financial opportunity even if they are doing great work because most of their potential customer base are poor too.

weregiraffe 1y ago

If they excel, yes. If they powerpoint, no.

lukax 1y ago
word

madduci 1y ago

Although this is correct, the narrative is obviously 100% centered on US perspective. The author worries about the brain drain that could affect places like Pittsburgh, but on the other hand, people is already living it, as my kids just see grandparents once per year, since we live in another country, but there is people who can't even do it on an annual base, because they live far away or in countries considered at risk.

ipnon 1y ago
What's surprising to me is that internal migration in the US is actually down from its peak. People today are more likely to live in or close to their hometown than they were in the 20th century. Part of this is simply because urbanization goes only one way.
- pchristensen 1y ago
  People cannot afford to move to places where the economies are booming, because their standard of living with higher pay and higher costs is the same as if they stayed where they are. Moving to opportunity used to be worth it, but is less so now outside of specific fields.