5 ms·
[flagged]
by sporkxrocket 1y ago
[flagged]
- monero-xmr 1y ago[flagged]
- vjvjvjvjghv 1y agoEvents like this have often been used as trigger to implement measures that were already planned. The nazis did that a lot (Reichstagsbrand, Kristallnacht), You could argue that Israel used the October 7 attacks to accelerate efforts to get rid of the Palestinians. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld used 9/11 to invade Iraq which they had wanted to do long before. I am definitely worried what Trump and republicans will do as a response.
- panarky 1y agoHN has thousands of comments debating the justification for killing tens of thousands of non-combatants in Palestine. More posts debating the justification for killing 11 people in a boat in the Caribbean who did not pose an imminent threat. HN rules do not prevent any of these discussions. But here we have a individual who advocated those killings. Here we have an individual who publicly justified school massacres by saying those senseless deaths are a worthwhile price to pay for gun rights in the US. On HN it's perfectly fine to justify all this violence, to argue that the violence is regrettable but necessary, but any equivalent discussion about this one individual is somehow beyond the pale.
- wordofx 1y agoYou don’t need to take guns away to solve gun violence. He’s 100% right. Start dealing with crime. Stop allowing criminals into the country. Stop releasing criminals back onto the streets. Stop ignoring people with violent tendencies.
- averageRoyalty 1y ago> Here we have an individual who publicly justified school massacres by saying those senseless deaths are a worthwhile price to pay for gun rights in the US. I'm an outside observer, but isn't that the point of the right to bear arms in your constitution? I don't think the people who wrote it were naive enough to not understand guns could be used for evil purposes, so inherently they supported the price of the deaths of innocents as a trade off for the benefits of guns, right?
- jebarker 1y agoI think it’s worth posting the actual wording of the 2nd amendment: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” There’s endless legal debate how this should be interpreted, but it’s not obvious that there was an assumption that there would be mass individual gun ownership.
- Aeolun 1y agoI think that’s pretty much the only way you can make that work? I’m against gun ownership, but I feel like you really need to stretch things to read that any other way than ‘people shall be allowed to own their own guns’
- jebarker 1y agoI almost don’t want to respond since this is well trodden ground, but I would say that “a well regulated militia” casts doubt on the individual gun ownership interpretation. You have to decide who the militia exists to fight and therefore who should regulate them. It’s obviously not obvious though.
- Aeolun 1y ago“the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” I dunno, this one is a whole lot less open to interpretation than the first sentence
- jebarker 1y agoIt's not. "The people" is a collective term, so this unambiguously says that collectively the people have the right to keep and bear arms, i.e. as a group. For example, maybe this guarantees that a well regulated militia of the people has the right keep and bear arms. An example of a less ambiguous statement would be: "the right of all individual people to keep and bear arms".
- wordofx 1y ago[flagged]
- e40 1y agoIt's a big deal because he's very important to part of the 30% that supports DJT. This is the sort of violence that begets more violence.
- sporkxrocket 1y agoWhat about all of the other violence I listed? It's orders of magnitude more severe. We don't know the motive of the shooting, but it could very well be someone who's related to the victims of the violence Kirk endorsed.
- e40 1y agoThe main reason is that the side he's on his pretty unhinged and they think it's more important than all the other violence listed. It's like when a conservative person is canceled they throw an absolute fit, then turn around and cancel someone on the left, without making any connection.
- incompatible 1y agoThe US is already well into this cycle, e.g., the killing of Melissa Hortman.
- isleyaardvark 1y agoThere was a school shooting in Colorado within about an hour of when Kirk got shot
- spaceman_2020 1y agoTargeted vs untargeted violence. The former almost always comes with a broader message to society at large. A school shooter isn’t trying to say “shut down all schools”. But a terrorist flying a plane into one of the most important symbols of your most important city is certainly trying to send your society a message. Same with this killing Think about how you would feel if some guys beat you and your friends up in a bar fight, vs someone individually stalking you and beating you up outside your own house. You got beaten up in both cases, but the bar fight beating will unlikely make you feel as vulnerable and scared to leave the house as being stalked and targeted individually
- sporkxrocket 1y agoThe killing of Palestinians is targeted.
- spaceman_2020 1y agoWhich is why it feels so much more despicable and awful than all the other conflicts that are currently ongoing in the world.
- joyeuse6701 1y ago[flagged]
- sporkxrocket 1y agoBeing totally amoral and incompetent are two different things.
- sliq 1y agoI agree to your logic, but scanning social media gives a totally different view: People feel like they need to take action now. The murder of the ukranian girl set a social fire, and the killing of charlie kirk put gasoline over it. You can feel the rage. I've never seen so many upvotes and likes for quite radical opinions like in the last hours on TikTok and X. Looks like a storm is coming.
- dttze 1y agoJust like when Trump got shot, right?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- winwang 1y agoI'm not too caught up with politics, but a (presumably) political shooting has the issue of being disruptive to the government and therefore the nation as a whole, since the USA is built on democratic ideals. And since it's a(/the) global superpower, its issues result in serious international problems as well.
- sporkxrocket 1y agoHe was a Youtuber, not a politician though.
- themaninthedark 1y agoMartin Luther King Jr. was just a preacher, I don't understand the the big deal about him getting shot. /s
- sporkxrocket 1y agoCharlie Kirk is more analogous to Jerry Springer than Martin Luther King Jr.
- golemiprague 1y ago[dead]