4 ms·

Perpetual Motion Machines were a thing at some point, too.

YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
Don't laugh. PMMs work! I built mine ten years ago when I realised I could improve the SOTA by a huge 20%. I've been improving it for the last 10 years and I get an average performance boost of ~0.25 every year. We will have Free Energy in the next 10 years.
- ojo-rojo 1y ago
  I find your comment interesting, even though I'm not sure if I really get what you're saying. You built a perpetual motion machine? You then made improvements? Can you share details?
  - suprfsat 1y ago
    Good news everyone, you've passed the Turing test.
    - amelius 1y ago
      Hmm, I guess I didn't pass it then.
  - pas 1y ago
    they are claiming that they built a PMM prototype, which is not fully satisfying the business requirements yet, but they are on track to do so based on all the amazing documented validated peer-reviewed published progress they made already over the years!
    - YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
      That!
  - YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
    This is HN so I think it's fine to break standard protocol and clarify: I was joking. Specifically I was riffing off nakamoto_damacy's comment and carrying the comparison (of LLMs) with Perpetual Motion Machines (PMMs) to its logical conclusion.
- taneq 1y ago
  20%? 0.25%? Those are rookie numbers! /s (I feel like this post is underappreciated by at least 20%. :D )
- nickpsecurity 1y ago
  The trick is you use magnets, momentum, and WD-40. That can get you most of the way. It probably will eventually stop, though. Something about the Sun becoming a red giant...
  - YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
    Pf, magnets. That's so 1920's! Room-temperature superconductors are the thing nowadays. I'm sure we'll have those in just a few years.
- Nevermark 1y ago
  Cool! Mine passively extracts unlimited energy from the expansion of space. Not scientifically perpetual. But definitely, relative to the finite future lifetime of the human race, operable for perpetuity. And by extracting dark energy, we can not only turn the big rip around. But by pulling dark energy out of space in a linear direction ahead of a ship, we can power the ship to high speed, as we contract space in front of the ship. Like fusion, we can use extracted dark energy to extract more dark energy. Essentially smoothly teleporting forward. No more fundamental speed limits relative to observers at distance. Looking forward to exploring beyond the observable universe. It isn't "free" though. There are unique risks.
api 1y ago
I refer to the endless self improving runaway AI as an “information theoretic perpetual motion machine.” This will work in a sense. It will do… something… and learn… something. It will be unrelated to the physical universe in any way. See also: procedural landscape generators, etc.
- RLAIF 1y ago
  [dead]
- K0balt 1y ago
  Might kinda work if you gave it tools to do its research on the open internet, fiverr, mechanical Turk, etc.
  - agentultra 1y ago
    On its own without any alignment or labelling. Super-intelligence or super-Grok?
    - K0balt 1y ago
      The idea would be to use mech Turk and fiverr as touch points with reality. I’m not saying it’s a good idea, just that in theory it might work.
  - api 1y ago
    That’s at least some contact with reality, at least by proxy. I’m referring to a brain in a vat somehow learning.
    - K0balt 1y ago
      Yeah, information about external reality cannot be generated from entropy alone.
  - nakamoto_damacy 1y ago
    Sure, it could up until some point where in order for it to figure out that it has to use a tool or access the Internet it will need more intelligence (to know that its answer or understanding is not sufficient or incorrect) How do we as humans know that? Someone tells us. Who's going to tell it? Then you end up at Minsky's Society of Mind, but also a distributed perpetual motion machine. Evolution seems to have figured out the intuition mechanism as some sort of probabilistic mechanism that's been honed for potentially millions of years, if not billions (white blood cells track pathogens, without having any neural network, so it's possible.) -- I think I opened a can of worms with these thoughts.

Don't laugh. PMMs work! I built mine ten years ago when I realised I could improve the SOTA by a huge 20%. I've been improving it for the last 10 years and I get an average performance boost of ~0.25 every year. We will have Free Energy in the next 10 years.

ojo-rojo 1y ago
I find your comment interesting, even though I'm not sure if I really get what you're saying. You built a perpetual motion machine? You then made improvements? Can you share details?
- suprfsat 1y ago
  Good news everyone, you've passed the Turing test.
  - amelius 1y ago
    Hmm, I guess I didn't pass it then.
- pas 1y ago
  they are claiming that they built a PMM prototype, which is not fully satisfying the business requirements yet, but they are on track to do so based on all the amazing documented validated peer-reviewed published progress they made already over the years!
  - YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
    That!
- YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
  This is HN so I think it's fine to break standard protocol and clarify: I was joking. Specifically I was riffing off nakamoto_damacy's comment and carrying the comparison (of LLMs) with Perpetual Motion Machines (PMMs) to its logical conclusion.
taneq 1y ago
20%? 0.25%? Those are rookie numbers! /s (I feel like this post is underappreciated by at least 20%. :D )
nickpsecurity 1y ago
The trick is you use magnets, momentum, and WD-40. That can get you most of the way. It probably will eventually stop, though. Something about the Sun becoming a red giant...
- YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
  Pf, magnets. That's so 1920's! Room-temperature superconductors are the thing nowadays. I'm sure we'll have those in just a few years.
Nevermark 1y ago
Cool! Mine passively extracts unlimited energy from the expansion of space. Not scientifically perpetual. But definitely, relative to the finite future lifetime of the human race, operable for perpetuity. And by extracting dark energy, we can not only turn the big rip around. But by pulling dark energy out of space in a linear direction ahead of a ship, we can power the ship to high speed, as we contract space in front of the ship. Like fusion, we can use extracted dark energy to extract more dark energy. Essentially smoothly teleporting forward. No more fundamental speed limits relative to observers at distance. Looking forward to exploring beyond the observable universe. It isn't "free" though. There are unique risks.

api 1y ago

I refer to the endless self improving runaway AI as an “information theoretic perpetual motion machine.” This will work in a sense. It will do… something… and learn… something. It will be unrelated to the physical universe in any way. See also: procedural landscape generators, etc.

RLAIF 1y ago
[dead]
K0balt 1y ago
Might kinda work if you gave it tools to do its research on the open internet, fiverr, mechanical Turk, etc.
- agentultra 1y ago
  On its own without any alignment or labelling. Super-intelligence or super-Grok?
  - K0balt 1y ago
    The idea would be to use mech Turk and fiverr as touch points with reality. I’m not saying it’s a good idea, just that in theory it might work.
- api 1y ago
  That’s at least some contact with reality, at least by proxy. I’m referring to a brain in a vat somehow learning.
  - K0balt 1y ago
    Yeah, information about external reality cannot be generated from entropy alone.
- nakamoto_damacy 1y ago
  Sure, it could up until some point where in order for it to figure out that it has to use a tool or access the Internet it will need more intelligence (to know that its answer or understanding is not sufficient or incorrect) How do we as humans know that? Someone tells us. Who's going to tell it? Then you end up at Minsky's Society of Mind, but also a distributed perpetual motion machine. Evolution seems to have figured out the intuition mechanism as some sort of probabilistic mechanism that's been honed for potentially millions of years, if not billions (white blood cells track pathogens, without having any neural network, so it's possible.) -- I think I opened a can of worms with these thoughts.