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My dad is 85 and this article hits hard about what he fights going on in his body. What sucks is how much of a downward, self reinforcing spiral it all is. It's

by nate 1y ago

My dad is 85 and this article hits hard about what he fights going on in his body. What sucks is how much of a downward, self reinforcing spiral it all is. It's so hard to see the curbs to walk over or how to get to a thing himself, so he just naturally chooses to do fewer and fewer things. Watching TV is safer and kinder and becomes the default to anything. Which just makes his brain less and less stimulated and active, and you can imagine the drag that adds to keep figuring out life. But like the empathy found in this article, it's caused me to be incredibly more patient with anyone struggling to walk in front of me on a crowded or narrow sidewalk. Aging is rough. Thank you to everyone working on accessibility and aging related tech and science.

gowld 1y ago
When you stop walking, that's the beginning of the end.
- bayesnet 1y ago
  My grandfather, with whom I was very close, suffered from Parkinson's in his last decade or so. For a long time he was doing OK: Occasional confusion and the slow, shuffling walk that is characteristic of the disease. One day he had a minor operation that left him needing a wheelchair for what we thought would be just a few weeks. But he never regained his strength and was never to walk again, which led to a steep and sudden decline in his mental condition. It was truly devastating to see one of the sharpest people I knew become an angry and confused simulacrum of the man I so admired. I wish I had realized two things then: First, as you say, maintaining mobility is the crucial to the well-being of the elderly. Second, immediate physical/occupational therapy after a fall or surgery is essential to people at risk of losing mobility. Sadly it wasn't offered to us and we didn't think to ask.
  - hnhnhnaccount 1y ago
    My dad is going through that shit right now. He fell a few weeks ago and hasn’t walked since. I live abroad to make more money and feed my ego and I only see him 3–4 times a year. On top of that selfishness, every now and then I catch myself selfishly thinking I don’t want to go through that, which makes me feel like an even worst piece of shit. Life sucks.
    - elteto 1y ago
      Man, be easy on yourself. You already have the world to put you down, no need to add to it. Life is complicated and I’m sure that you trying to have a better life and a career is not just for ego. Love yourself a bit.
    - hattmall 1y ago
      I mean if you are saying you make a lot of money, hire someone to go and get him moving, if he would accept it anyway.
- amarant 1y ago
  This! My grandmother adopted a dog late in her life. She walked 10km a day with that dog for nearly 20 years! (That dog was the oldest dog I've ever known). At 92 she was famous in my small village, she was in better shape than some of the 30 year olds! Then the dog died. Instead of walking 10km per day, she lay on the couch staring at the ceiling. About 3 months later she started getting lost on her way to the supermarket. Fifth time she got lost we decided to put her in a home for demented people. We simply couldn't provide the care she needed any other way. Took a few more months and she stopped recognising us. I think she outlived her dog by about 18 months, iirc. She stopped walking, and then age came fast for her.
  - adastra22 1y ago
    I have never been a dog person. Now I want a dog.
    - trhway 1y ago
      A couple of neighbors adopt older dogs. We never discussed that specifically, yet it seems to be a smaller commitment lifetime-wise (few years instead of 10-15 for a young dog), and you'd have to train and deal with a puppy energy (which is a great thing if you have the time and energy to engage in it) if you adopt younger dogs, while the older ones seem to be well set in their good behavior ways. Long walks, established routine, no drama. Also of course fostering is a gateway drug into getting a dog as well as good way to learn what dog would be a match for you.
    - hattmall 1y ago
      There's an overwhelming and abundantly clear reason they are referred to as man's best friend. I guess I was fortunate to always grow up with dogs, but I can never really understand people that don't pine for dogs. Now, I can understand not wanting the added responsibility in some situations, but the amazingness of a dog companion is one of the most mind blowing things about the whole nature of human existence. The presence of dogs through evolution legitimately made humans the way they are today and the reverse for what dogs are. It's really wild. I also don't get people that treat their dogs like humans or kids though. It's a dog, don't bring it in a restaurant. Also lots of empirical evidence that dog owners live longer.
- SlowTao 1y ago
  When it comes to physical exercise, this is the key fundamental one. Yes, others things help but it is the foundation on which everything else rests. Alas, it can be taken away without choice, hopefully not.
squigz 1y ago
Beyond the obvious (medical care, accessibility, etc), I think technology has a huge amount of untapped potential to make the end of our lives a lot more bearable, and a lot less lonely. TV is one thing - and whether it's a net good or not has been discussed to death, so I won't here - but I wonder how video games might be used. They're a lot more engaging - both generally and cognitively - than TV, you can build and achieve things and feel a sense of accomplishment (yeah yeah pride and accomplishment), there are communities around them, you can play with your family, etc. Even online board and card games would be an option. Have you ever considered showing your dad some simple games?
- Slow_Hand 1y ago
  Can’t speak to the cognitive benefits of video games in late life, but my grandma really took to our N64 one summer when my brother and I stayed with her. She used to stay absorbed in a little battery powered draw poker game that she had, but by the end of the summer she had gone through a large part of our game collection and could put up a real challenge in Mario Kart 64. Eventually we gifted it to her and she played it for years after that.
costcopizza 1y ago
My grandma is 83 and I could’ve written this exact same post. I know it comes for everyone, but the pace of said spiral is frightening. Wish we were in a timeframe with more alternatives for rapid loss of mobility and muscle.
- SlowTao 1y ago
  While it is challenging, looked at one a life time scale it is kind of a neat thing. It isn't a purely linear decline and that means while the later years kind of suck, you get a lot of decent time before then. Yes, we should try and work against this but I am just looking at the silver lining.
- viking123 1y ago
  There's quite a lot of aging research going, maybe will get something concrete in the next 10-20 years (maybe too late for her) but it's at least something
raincole 1y ago
One of the technologies I look forward to is exoskeleton. Yes I know it will be used by the army. But the potential to improve elders' lives is huge.
- pfannkuchen 1y ago
  Why would it be used by the army? Seems like you don’t need the squishy meat filling for that use case.
  - kulahan 1y ago
    There are lots of instances where a soldier being 5-6 times stronger would be really useful. I don’t think it’ll be a scenario like the starship troopers book, but having one available to a swat team or whatever, could be useful. Still, I personally think the army would be one of the last applications, because that’s where you need the absolute lowest possible latency. Latency on a suit for an elderly person would be much more acceptable.
    - amelius 1y ago
      Or maybe the scenario where they lift a truck that is stuck in the sand.
      - defrost 1y ago
        An exhaust air bag jack and a plank or five squaddies can already do that job.
- peepee1982 1y ago
  Agreed. But the pessimist in me fears that some people might fall back to that much too soon instead of adopting healthier lifestyles.
ACCount37 1y ago
Aging should be recognized as a disease already. It's long overdue.
- 1718627440 1y ago
  Disease is abnormal to some "norm". When everyone has it, it's not a disease.
  - ACCount37 1y ago
    I would appreciate if the "norm" was recognized to be not having your body rot away over time. It really is simple: aging is incredibly harmful and undesirable. It strips away your quality of life until there isn't much left and then you die. It doesn't take any more than that for it to be declared a disease. Whether it's "natural" or whether "everyone has it" is a distraction. If everyone was born with cancer, that wouldn't make cancer any less of a disease.
    - 1718627440 1y ago
      > It really is simple: aging is incredibly harmful and undesirable. Doesn't make it a disease. Dying is a normal part of life as well as the decline before that. > If everyone was born with cancer, that wouldn't make cancer any less of a disease. No, then the people not having cancer would have the disease. > I would appreciate if the "norm" was recognized That's not how a norm works. You get that by doing trials and statistics, not by wanting it to be different.
      - ACCount37 1y ago
        Starvation used to be "a normal part of life". So was having half your children die before they hit the age of 10. That was the normal, natural outcome of having a child - if you want to have grandchildren, just make more children! Some of them would live, surely! This is how it was - until humans decided that this sucks and something should be done about that. I see no reason not to dispose of aging at the earliest opportunity. And this starts by recognizing: aging sucks for everyone, and should be disposed of.
barnabyjones 1y ago
My parents have similar issues due to hearing loss, it really makes any kind of social interaction a chore which results in a similar spiral. For years I've wanted to try to make, or hope someone else would make, a set of AR glasses that's purely focused on providing accurate real-time subtitles, no other gimmicks or features that might affect the wearability/usability. I think that's the biggest QOL boost most old folks would get from a single product, and it seems much more realistically feasible than other potential QOL solutions like robotics, but I wouldn't know where to start with building it. As a bonus, it would just need an LLM/Google Translate hookup to become an amazing travel tool.
- peepee1982 1y ago
  I've never thought of this usecase and I think it's fantastic.
- copperx 1y ago
  Spending R&D in something like this is much more important that building fancier hearing aids. Universal subtitles would be a life changer.
  - stavros 1y ago
    Couldn't you do this with $500 in some Xreal Airs and a mobile phone running Parakeet right now?
    - barnabyjones 1y ago
      Those look bulky, to support exactly the kind of feature creep I think will always be a problem with this category. I think there are a LOT of people who would simply not consider wearing them until the form factor is close to normal glasses, but it would be hard to convince any product manager not to expand into videos/games/music/AI/etc.
      - stavros 1y ago
        What's the feature creep you see them support?
thegreatpeter 1y ago
Aging is rough. I feel for you. My parents are a bit younger but I'm starting to pick up on things that make me realize they're getting older. Thanks for sharing

by nate 1y ago

gowld 1y ago

When you stop walking, that's the beginning of the end.

bayesnet 1y ago
My grandfather, with whom I was very close, suffered from Parkinson's in his last decade or so. For a long time he was doing OK: Occasional confusion and the slow, shuffling walk that is characteristic of the disease. One day he had a minor operation that left him needing a wheelchair for what we thought would be just a few weeks. But he never regained his strength and was never to walk again, which led to a steep and sudden decline in his mental condition. It was truly devastating to see one of the sharpest people I knew become an angry and confused simulacrum of the man I so admired. I wish I had realized two things then: First, as you say, maintaining mobility is the crucial to the well-being of the elderly. Second, immediate physical/occupational therapy after a fall or surgery is essential to people at risk of losing mobility. Sadly it wasn't offered to us and we didn't think to ask.
- hnhnhnaccount 1y ago
  My dad is going through that shit right now. He fell a few weeks ago and hasn’t walked since. I live abroad to make more money and feed my ego and I only see him 3–4 times a year. On top of that selfishness, every now and then I catch myself selfishly thinking I don’t want to go through that, which makes me feel like an even worst piece of shit. Life sucks.
  - elteto 1y ago
    Man, be easy on yourself. You already have the world to put you down, no need to add to it. Life is complicated and I’m sure that you trying to have a better life and a career is not just for ego. Love yourself a bit.
  - hattmall 1y ago
    I mean if you are saying you make a lot of money, hire someone to go and get him moving, if he would accept it anyway.
amarant 1y ago
This! My grandmother adopted a dog late in her life. She walked 10km a day with that dog for nearly 20 years! (That dog was the oldest dog I've ever known). At 92 she was famous in my small village, she was in better shape than some of the 30 year olds! Then the dog died. Instead of walking 10km per day, she lay on the couch staring at the ceiling. About 3 months later she started getting lost on her way to the supermarket. Fifth time she got lost we decided to put her in a home for demented people. We simply couldn't provide the care she needed any other way. Took a few more months and she stopped recognising us. I think she outlived her dog by about 18 months, iirc. She stopped walking, and then age came fast for her.
- adastra22 1y ago
  I have never been a dog person. Now I want a dog.
  - trhway 1y ago
    A couple of neighbors adopt older dogs. We never discussed that specifically, yet it seems to be a smaller commitment lifetime-wise (few years instead of 10-15 for a young dog), and you'd have to train and deal with a puppy energy (which is a great thing if you have the time and energy to engage in it) if you adopt younger dogs, while the older ones seem to be well set in their good behavior ways. Long walks, established routine, no drama. Also of course fostering is a gateway drug into getting a dog as well as good way to learn what dog would be a match for you.
  - hattmall 1y ago
    There's an overwhelming and abundantly clear reason they are referred to as man's best friend. I guess I was fortunate to always grow up with dogs, but I can never really understand people that don't pine for dogs. Now, I can understand not wanting the added responsibility in some situations, but the amazingness of a dog companion is one of the most mind blowing things about the whole nature of human existence. The presence of dogs through evolution legitimately made humans the way they are today and the reverse for what dogs are. It's really wild. I also don't get people that treat their dogs like humans or kids though. It's a dog, don't bring it in a restaurant. Also lots of empirical evidence that dog owners live longer.
SlowTao 1y ago
When it comes to physical exercise, this is the key fundamental one. Yes, others things help but it is the foundation on which everything else rests. Alas, it can be taken away without choice, hopefully not.

squigz 1y ago

Beyond the obvious (medical care, accessibility, etc), I think technology has a huge amount of untapped potential to make the end of our lives a lot more bearable, and a lot less lonely. TV is one thing - and whether it's a net good or not has been discussed to death, so I won't here - but I wonder how video games might be used. They're a lot more engaging - both generally and cognitively - than TV, you can build and achieve things and feel a sense of accomplishment (yeah yeah pride and accomplishment), there are communities around them, you can play with your family, etc. Even online board and card games would be an option. Have you ever considered showing your dad some simple games?

Slow_Hand 1y ago
Can’t speak to the cognitive benefits of video games in late life, but my grandma really took to our N64 one summer when my brother and I stayed with her. She used to stay absorbed in a little battery powered draw poker game that she had, but by the end of the summer she had gone through a large part of our game collection and could put up a real challenge in Mario Kart 64. Eventually we gifted it to her and she played it for years after that.

costcopizza 1y ago

My grandma is 83 and I could’ve written this exact same post. I know it comes for everyone, but the pace of said spiral is frightening. Wish we were in a timeframe with more alternatives for rapid loss of mobility and muscle.

SlowTao 1y ago
While it is challenging, looked at one a life time scale it is kind of a neat thing. It isn't a purely linear decline and that means while the later years kind of suck, you get a lot of decent time before then. Yes, we should try and work against this but I am just looking at the silver lining.
viking123 1y ago
There's quite a lot of aging research going, maybe will get something concrete in the next 10-20 years (maybe too late for her) but it's at least something

raincole 1y ago

One of the technologies I look forward to is exoskeleton. Yes I know it will be used by the army. But the potential to improve elders' lives is huge.

pfannkuchen 1y ago
Why would it be used by the army? Seems like you don’t need the squishy meat filling for that use case.
- kulahan 1y ago
  There are lots of instances where a soldier being 5-6 times stronger would be really useful. I don’t think it’ll be a scenario like the starship troopers book, but having one available to a swat team or whatever, could be useful. Still, I personally think the army would be one of the last applications, because that’s where you need the absolute lowest possible latency. Latency on a suit for an elderly person would be much more acceptable.
  - amelius 1y ago
    Or maybe the scenario where they lift a truck that is stuck in the sand.
    - defrost 1y ago
      An exhaust air bag jack and a plank or five squaddies can already do that job.
peepee1982 1y ago
Agreed. But the pessimist in me fears that some people might fall back to that much too soon instead of adopting healthier lifestyles.

ACCount37 1y ago

Aging should be recognized as a disease already. It's long overdue.

1718627440 1y ago
Disease is abnormal to some "norm". When everyone has it, it's not a disease.
- ACCount37 1y ago
  I would appreciate if the "norm" was recognized to be not having your body rot away over time. It really is simple: aging is incredibly harmful and undesirable. It strips away your quality of life until there isn't much left and then you die. It doesn't take any more than that for it to be declared a disease. Whether it's "natural" or whether "everyone has it" is a distraction. If everyone was born with cancer, that wouldn't make cancer any less of a disease.
  - 1718627440 1y ago
    > It really is simple: aging is incredibly harmful and undesirable. Doesn't make it a disease. Dying is a normal part of life as well as the decline before that. > If everyone was born with cancer, that wouldn't make cancer any less of a disease. No, then the people not having cancer would have the disease. > I would appreciate if the "norm" was recognized That's not how a norm works. You get that by doing trials and statistics, not by wanting it to be different.
    - ACCount37 1y ago
      Starvation used to be "a normal part of life". So was having half your children die before they hit the age of 10. That was the normal, natural outcome of having a child - if you want to have grandchildren, just make more children! Some of them would live, surely! This is how it was - until humans decided that this sucks and something should be done about that. I see no reason not to dispose of aging at the earliest opportunity. And this starts by recognizing: aging sucks for everyone, and should be disposed of.

barnabyjones 1y ago

My parents have similar issues due to hearing loss, it really makes any kind of social interaction a chore which results in a similar spiral. For years I've wanted to try to make, or hope someone else would make, a set of AR glasses that's purely focused on providing accurate real-time subtitles, no other gimmicks or features that might affect the wearability/usability. I think that's the biggest QOL boost most old folks would get from a single product, and it seems much more realistically feasible than other potential QOL solutions like robotics, but I wouldn't know where to start with building it. As a bonus, it would just need an LLM/Google Translate hookup to become an amazing travel tool.

peepee1982 1y ago
I've never thought of this usecase and I think it's fantastic.
copperx 1y ago
Spending R&D in something like this is much more important that building fancier hearing aids. Universal subtitles would be a life changer.
- stavros 1y ago
  Couldn't you do this with $500 in some Xreal Airs and a mobile phone running Parakeet right now?
  - barnabyjones 1y ago
    Those look bulky, to support exactly the kind of feature creep I think will always be a problem with this category. I think there are a LOT of people who would simply not consider wearing them until the form factor is close to normal glasses, but it would be hard to convince any product manager not to expand into videos/games/music/AI/etc.
    - stavros 1y ago
      What's the feature creep you see them support?

thegreatpeter 1y ago

Aging is rough. I feel for you. My parents are a bit younger but I'm starting to pick up on things that make me realize they're getting older. Thanks for sharing