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AI is ummasking ICE officers. Can Washington do anything about it?
- likeclockwork 1y agoShould there be secret police in the first place?
- PicassoCTs 1y ago[flagged]
- kelseyfrog 1y agoIt sounds like you're saying, "Yes." Did I get that correct?
- PicassoCTs 1y ago[flagged]
- krapp 1y ago>>Im against ICE going for hardworking mexican immigrants - they have done nothing wrong but working hard! Islam though- has shown itself to be incompatible with western values and democracy wherever it incarnates- everything else can stay- but that religion and its anti-progressive, culture relativists supporters have to go. "Anti-democratic immigrants" who are, if I interpret your (now flagged, preserved here) comment correctly, all Muslims? yes? In other words, you believe that the practice of Islam in any Western country should be a crime and the police should be empowered to arrest and deport any Muslim they encounter? And that this is in line with Western democratic ideals and values?
- jacquesm 1y agoIt is insane that a country founded by people persecuted for their religion and which has enshrined this in the 'Free Exercise' clause of the first amendment tosses that overboard the second they don't like a particular religion.
- PicassoCTs 1y ago[flagged]
- soganess 1y agoDefine anti-democratic. I would describe a 'police force' that can forcibly and summarily deport people to gray market gulags run by a self-proclaimed "what-if-4chan-had-a-meat-world-avator" dictator as pretty darn anti-democratic. Especially when most Americans find that the current immigration policy has gone too far[1,2]. But I mistakenly think democratic means responding to the will of the people. [1]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/many-americans-say-trump-has-gone-too-far-on-immigration-but-remains-his-strongest-issue-ap-norc-poll-finds https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/many-americans-say-tru... [2]: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5425558-trump-administration-immigration-agenda-survey/ https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5425558-trump-ad... (I included The Hill article not b/c I think it is a real news source, but to get ahead of the whole "pbs is lib fake news" angle)
- _mlbt 1y ago[flagged]
- stonogo 1y agoThey've made that claim, but nobody's provided any evidence.
- nofriend 1y agoWhat purpose is unmasking them supposed to serve if not that?
- jacquesm 1y agoTo get their identity down so they can be prosecuted if and when the time comes.
- goda90 1y agoAccountability. Law enforcement officers should fear legal consequences for any illegal and excessive actions done while on duty. If the public can't identify them, and their co-workers don't feel an incentive to turn them in, then how will they face consequences? If they don't face consequences, what will incentivize them to follow the law and act with restraint?
- nofriend 1y agoA simple badge number would suffice for that
- goda90 1y agoWhich they are frequently not giving either.
- HDThoreaun 1y agoOk then they should have to prominently display their badge number
- kelseyfrog 1y ago> ICE agents “don’t deserve to be hunted online by activists using AI,” said Sen. James Lankford (R-Okla.) How can I assist if I believe they do deserve to be hunted online? It improves my mental health to use the tools of the surveillance state against its agents.
- banku_brougham 1y agoI agree. We used to dislike the idea of secret police in this country, next will be secret court proceedings. Need to nip this in the bud.
- krapp 1y agoSecret court proceedings have been a thing since 9/11. People seem to have forgotten that we built a concentration camp in Cuba explicitly to detain "enemy combatants" indefinitely without trial, deprive them of their civil liberties and torture (sorry, "enhanced interrogate") them, and how eagerly the American public got behind all of it. We had the chance to nip it in the bud over 20 years ago and we couldn't. It doesn't look like we're going to this time, either.
- scarecrowbob 1y agoAs far as I know, CIA black sites go back as far as the CIA. I think it's endemic to contemporary state structures- though clearly morally wrong. But hey, these folks are evil; if that kind of extra judicial torture of random folks is the thing that has guided me away from Omelas, so be it.
- hypeatei 1y agoSecret courts already exist: it's called FISA.
- Tadpole9181 1y agoOn top of the FISA thing, you're already late to this party...? The current administration believes that non-citizens have no right to due process. If there's no due process, there's no way to prove or disprove citizenship and no court proceeding at all. And SCOTUS ruled that you can ship a non-citizen just... Anywhere you want? Doesn't have to even be on the same continent as their home. So the Gestapo - sorry, ICE - can kidnap anyone they want, put them in a camp of arbitrarily bad conditions without any form of disclosure or contact to lawyers or family, then send them to a random war-torn country with no belongings. If you're extra unlucky, they may just send you to a death prison or work camp in a third world dictatorship. So we are already passed the rubicon of "no court hearing at all". Today we're normalizing deploying the military against US citizens.
- like_any_other 1y agoMore and more it seems that a country is fundamentally not allowed to say "no" to immigration. Even the ~1 million/year for the last 25 years [1] that the US has admitted legally is deemed too restrictive, so those who try to enforce immigration law are attacked. No position short of "America belongs to everyone" is permitted, no matter what voters says. I wonder if experts will emerge to call this inciting "stochastic terrorism" [2]. I won't be holding my breath. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_immigration_statistics#Persons_getting_permanent_resident_status https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_immigration_stat... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_terrorism
- jeffbee 1y agoThe "process" in the phrase "due process" is there to ensure that the cops have the right guy, that they actually did something, and that their removal from one place to another is the appropriate remedy.
- jacquesm 1y agoSuch details used to matter. It was a more civilized time.
- steveBK123 1y agoDisappointing & unsurprising to see the "law & order" as well as libertarian right types so supportive of stripping due process here. The ability of government to hold you indefinitely, punish, deport you, etc without going thru courts simply by declaring you a criminal is how you get gulags. Yes maybe this time they don't look like you and their last names end in z which yours doesn't, but wait until the next time.
- banku_brougham 1y agoThis is not enforcement, it is a spree of extrajudicial kidnappings without orders from the court. This puts us back so far even the Magna Carta is futuristic.
- Ms-J 1y agoThere is nothing ICE can do but lay down their uniform and run. They might be forgiven then.
- jacquesm 1y agoI don't think that should be enough. What is really amazing is that even knowing - as a species - all of our history we manage to commit the same faults over and over again. There are always going to be people waiting in the wings that can't wait to become the next installment of campguards, gas chamber operators and gestapo. It is unbelievable to me, and have a hard time coming to terms with it because we should be better than this by now. But no, we'll just bang our heads against the rock one more time see if the outcome is different this time around. It's collective insanity on a massive scale.
- m_fayer 1y agoIt’s simply that our collective memory fades over a few generations, becomes a ramble of dry facts of little consequence that most people don’t know or care about. Israel had built itself as a veritable temple of memory culture, and even that hasn’t lasted all that long. How this trait mixes with 20th and 21st century technology and its weapons? It seems quite dark to me. We’ve dodged a few bullets but I’m not at all convinced we’ll stop firing or keep successfully dodging.
- jacquesm 1y agoIt is so frustrating though. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion and there isn't a thing you can do about it.
- m_fayer 1y agoI feel you. Just like last time eventually many decent people will resist in various ways despite having little hope, because that’s what you do. I hope we don’t get there, I like my life.
- jmclnx 1y agoNow this is the first useful use of AI I have seen :)
- carbonbioxide 1y ago> ICE says its agents need to wear masks to prevent being unfairly harassed for doing their jobs. Ha, the hypocrisy.
- _mlbt 1y agoWhy is America not allowed to enforce its borders and immigration laws?
- myvoiceismypass 1y agoEnforcement of borders and laws does not need to include grabbing non-violent brown people at random Home Depots, while they are firefighting, while they are legally attending immigration court sessions, etc.
- _mlbt 1y ago> brown people Why are you bringing race into this? I couldn’t care less about their skin color, just their legal status.
- jmholla 1y agoThat's the whole point. They're being targeted for their skin color, not their legal status.
- _mlbt 1y agoToday I learned that Irish are brown people… https://www.irishstar.com/news/us-news/dozens-undocumented-irish-rounded-up-35174677 https://www.irishstar.com/news/us-news/dozens-undocumented-i... …or maybe it really is just about their legal status and not their skin color like I said.
- Tadpole9181 1y agoThose are overrated VISAs and they're nabbing then procedurally. The US kinda knows who they are and have just been lenient for the most part, now they're telling them to appear and arresting them when they show. The other commenter is very clearly talking about ICE driving vans into the parking lot of Home Depot and such, then arresting (groups of) brown folk or people who speak Spanish. Those are very obviously two entirely separate issues. And the latter is undeniably related to skin-color.
- Ms-J 1y agoWhy is this flagged? Someone vouch for this and get it back to the front page.
- AlecSchueler 1y agoIt's seemingly critical of the US regime. It's unlikely to be unflagged, given past patterns.
- Tadpole9181 1y agoMods will unflag it several hours later, but the algorithmic damage is done by then. They need to change this system.
- Ms-J 1y agoThank you for bringing this to attention. The flagging system must be changed to allow the site to remain fair to the users.
- nradov 1y agoRight, this shouldn't be flagged. Regardless of the political issues this is interesting technology.
- AlecSchueler 1y agoThat shop sailed long ago.
- MrMember 1y ago>Skinner acknowledged that the technology is flawed, and he said that about that 60 percent of the AI-generated results and facial recognition searches lead to wrong matches on social media profiles. He says a group of volunteers verifies them through another process before posting any names online. This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. 60 percent of the output is garbage and leads to an innocent person being "identified" but don't worry the unpaid volunteers have a "process" to make sure nobody innocent is targeted!
- insane_dreamer 1y agoI doubt those defending ICE's actions (including wearing masks) have ever lived in a country with an often unaccountable and secret (i.e., unidentified) police force, i.e., Stasi, SAVAK, Gestapo, KGB, DINA. If they have, they would understand just how fundamentally opposed to democratic societies organizations that operate like ICE are -- they're very much a sign of authoritarianism / totalitarianism. Their tactics are not "enforcing immigration law" -- we have non-secret and accountable police forces whose job is to enforce the law. ICE is more like the vigilante groups enforcing Jim Crow laws in the South back in the day.
- sgnelson 1y agoThere's a whole lot of fascy sympathizers on HN...
- tastyface 1y agoI guess fascism is fun when you’re winning. (They never remember the end of the story, though.)
- tastyface 1y agoAs more and more social media data is fed into the AI machine, it will be impossible for any masked individual to remain anonymous. A snippet of voice, an unusual movement, your gait, or a piece of flair will give you away with 99% certainty. Agents doing evil, blatantly illegal shit should keep that in mind.