6 ms·
It's getting harder to find IDEs that properly boycott LLMs.
by throwawa14223 1y ago
It's getting harder to find IDEs that properly boycott LLMs.
- internet2000 1y agoJust don't use the features.
- drusepth 1y agoIronically, you could probably vibe code your own.
- ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 1y agoDo you really think so? Have you ever explored the source of something like: https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community
- PessimalDecimal 1y agoDoesn't have to. The LLM will do it! We're done with code, aren't we?
- wfhrto 1y agoCode is still there, but humans are done dealing with it. We're at a higher level of abstraction now. LLMs are like compilers, operating at a higher level. Nobody programs assembly language any more, much less machine language, even though the machine language is still down there in the end.
- ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 1y ago> Nobody programs assembly language They certainly do, and I can't really follow the analogy you are building. > We're at a higher level of abstraction now. To me, an abstraction higher than a programming language would be natural language or some DSL that approximates it. At the moment, I don't think most people using LLMs are reading paragraphs to maintain code. And LLMs aren't producing code in natural language. That isn't abstraction over language, it is an abstraction over your computer use to make the code in language. If anything, you are abstracting yourself away. Furthermore, if I am following you, you are basically saying, you have to make a call to a (free or paid) model to explain your code every time you want to alter it. I don't know how insane that sounds to most people, but to me, it sounds bat-shit.
- drusepth 1y agoI've worked in 3 different WYSIWYG editors for web and desktop applications over the years, lightly contributed to a handful of other open-source editors, and spent plenty of time building my own personal editors from scratch (and am currently using gpt-5 to fix my own human bugs in a rewrite of the Notebook.ai text editor that I re-re-implemented ~8 years ago). Editors are incredibly complex and require domain knowledge to guide agents toward the correct architecture and implementation (and away from the usual naive pitfalls), but in my experience the latest models reason about and implement features/changes just fine.
- rs186 1y agoGood luck getting just scroll bar right with vibe coding. You'll be surprised how much engineering is done to get that part work smoothly.
- CamperBob2 1y agoIf enough examples are in-distribution, the model's scroll bar implementation will work just fine. (Eventually, after the human learns what to ask for and how to ask for it.) Why wouldn't it?
- shakna 1y agoMost programs today regularly have bugs with scrolling. Thus, an LLM will produce for you... A buggy piece of code.
- adastra22 1y agoLLMs are not Xerox machines. They can, in fact, produce better code than is in their training set.
- hollowturtle 1y agoThat is funny for how much is wrong. Ask the LLMs to vibe code a text editor and you'll get a React app using Supabase. Engineering !== Token prediction
- adastra22 1y agoNon sequitur? I have used agentic coding tools to solve problems that have literally never been solved before, and it was the AI, not me, that came up with the answer. If you look under the hood, the multi-layered percqptratrons in the attention heads of the LLM are able to encode quite complex world models, derived from compressing its training set in a which which is formally as powerful as reasoning. These compressed model representations are accessible when prompted correctly, which express as genuinely new and innovative thoughts NOT in the training set.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- kristopolous 1y agoNeovim, emacs?
- guluarte 1y agoneovim will support llms natively (though a language server) https://github.com/neovim/neovim/pull/33972 https://github.com/neovim/neovim/pull/33972
- brigandish 1y agoYou have to enable it and install a language server, that's not the same as an LLM being baked in.
- simonh 1y agoIt’s not baked in, in that sense. You still have to enable it in XCode and link it to a Claude account. It’s basically the same.
- brigandish 1y agoAt the level of "Having to configure something to use it", they're the same, but then that's the same as the hundreds of other config options then. I think we can be slightly more precise than that. In Neovim the choice of language server and the choice of LLM is up to the user, (possibly even the choice of this API, I believe, having only skimmed the PR) while both of those choices are baked in to XCode, so they're not the same thing.
- simonh 1y agoThat's fair enough, but it's the opposite complaint, that XCode's LLM support is more limited because it is proprietary. That's a perfectly valid and reasonable objection, of course.
- what 1y agoThat’s not really native support for LLMs? It’s supporting some LSP feature for completions.
- computerliker 1y agohttps://kate-editor.org/ https://kate-editor.org/
- gary_0 1y agoI couldn't get it to properly syntax highlight and autosuggest even after spending over an hour hunting through all sorts of terrible documentation for kate, clangd, etc. It also completely hides all project files that aren't in source control, and the only way to stop it is to disable the git plugin. What a nightmare. Maybe I'll try VSCodium next.
- typpilol 1y agoI thought vscodium was just vscode but open source. Won't any issues in vscode also be present in vscodium?
- gary_0 1y agoIt can't access most Microsoft online services including Copilot, which happens to disable most of the features I don't want. (I understand this is both by design, as well as because Microsoft forbids unofficial forks from doing so.)
- ygritte 1y agoHowever, MS do everything they can to make plugins not work in VSCodium. And the plugin marketplaces are separate now.
- sneak 1y agoMany of the popular features in VS Code are provided by plugins that are not open source and thus not provided with VSCodium.
- isodev 1y agoKate is brilliant.
- ssk42 1y agoGosh, it's almost like a proper IDE has synonymous features with LLMs
- qbane 1y agoHow about Sublime Text (not really an IDE, just text editor)
- guluarte 1y agoeven nvim is getting native support for llms
- Insanity 1y agoIs it? Link?
- guluarte 1y agohttps://github.com/neovim/neovim/pull/33972 https://github.com/neovim/neovim/pull/33972
- __MatrixMan__ 1y agoIt doesn't matter how they feel about LLMs, ignoring their battle hardened plugin system and going native would be bad architecture.
- tcoff91 1y agoIt’s just native support for ghost text. It’s not llm specific
- tcoff91 1y agoYou have to opt in and set up a language server
- ants_everywhere 1y agoIn a similar vein I can barely find an OS that refuses to connect to the internet
- aurareturn 1y agoI hate that most browsers are willing to render React SPAs.
- n2h4 1y agolynx, elinks, and w3m don't
- aurareturn 1y agoIt was sarcasm :)
- bigyabai 1y agoReally?
- PessimalDecimal 1y agoWouldn't the more correct analogy be a text editor without "Klippy?"
- brian-armstrong 1y agohttps://templeos.org/ https://templeos.org/
- jama211 1y ago“Boycott” is a pretty strong term. I’m sensing a strong dislike of ai from you which is fine but if you dislike a feature most people like it shouldn’t be surprising to you that you’ll find yourself mostly catered to by more niche editors.
- isodev 1y agoI think it's a pretty good word, let's not forget how LLMs learned about code in the first place... by "stealing" all the snippets they can get their curl hands on.
- astrange 1y agoAnd by reading the docs, and by autogenerating code samples and testing them against verifiers, and by paying a lot of people to write sample code for sample questions.
- troupo 1y agoYeah, none of that happened with LLMs
- khafra 1y agohttps://openai.com/index/prover-verifier-games-improve-legibility/ https://openai.com/index/prover-verifier-games-improve-legib... OpenAI has been doing verifier-guided training since last year. No SOTA model was trained without verified reward training for math and programming.
- troupo 1y agoYour claim: "by reading the docs, and by autogenerating code samples and testing them against verifiers, and by paying a lot of people to write sample code for sample questions." Your link: "Grade school math problems from a hardcoded dataset with hardcoded answers" [1] It really is the same thing. [1] https://openai.com/index/solving-math-word-problems/ https://openai.com/index/solving-math-word-problems/ --- start quote --- GSM8K consists of 8.5K high quality grade school math word problems. Each problem takes between 2 and 8 steps to solve, and solutions primarily involve performing a sequence of elementary calculations using basic arithmetic operations (+ − × ÷) to reach the final answer. --- end quote ---
- armadyl 1y agoIf you're on macOS there's Code Edit as a native solution (fully open source, not VC backed, MIT licensed), but it's currently in active development: https://www.codeedit.app/ https://www.codeedit.app/. Otherwise there's VSCodium which is what I'm using until I can make the jump to Code Edit.
- yycettesi 1y ago[dead]
- matthewmacleod 1y agoOf course it is, because that would be an aggressively stupid thing to do. Like boycotting syntax highlighting, spellckecking, VCS integration or a dozen other features that are th whole pint of IDEs. If you don’t want to use LLM coding assistants – or if you can’t, or it’s not a technology suitable for your work – nobody cares. It’s totally fine. You don’t need to get performatively enraged about it.
- carstenhag 1y agoJust disable the feature/plugin in your IDE of choice. Android Studio/IntelliJ: https://i.imgur.com/RvRMvvK.png https://i.imgur.com/RvRMvvK.png