6 ms·

I would have laughed in your face if you wrote this comment merely 6 months ago. Now I'm just depressed. (UK)

jll29 1y ago
When ES leaked his info to the Guardian people, they could still (2013) use the Guardian's US base to publish, protected by the US' stronger freedom of speech laws. Now, in 2025, if the same were to happen again, I'm not sure that would work quite the same way, with Trump aggressively taking American citizens' rights away. Maybe The Guardian should open a branch in Sealand...
- SlowTao 1y ago
  It was David Graeber that said we should be wary of places like The Guardian. They are a wolf in sheeps clothing. Used a lot of the more liberal momentum of the early 2010s combined with promoting some of the more left leaning writters to gain a fair bit of clout. But underneath, they will conform to the power structures if it comes down to survival. Alas, they nay not be a Sealand edition although that would be neat.
  - lyu07282 1y ago
    This was made really obvious since the Gaza genocide began, the guardian was pushing propaganda really hard like everybody else, but now public opinion has shifted enough to the point that continued total denial of reality would cost the guardian more credibility so there was a noticable shift in the way they talk about it now. This way they can preserve some credibility for the next time they need to push propaganda on other fronts. in the US the NYT is similar, they will sometimes allow stuff get published to manufacture credibility for when they actually need it. Like see the Iraq war for example.
- cuuupid 1y ago
  No American citizens’ rights have been taken away or can be taken away by a President. We have whistleblowers and leakers from the administration itself on a literal weekly basis, our own Department of State actively funds Signal and Tor, our media has been heavily criticizing Trump and his allies for years. A couple organizations got hit with lawsuits for publishing misinformation or skirting campaign law, but that’s about it. They tried to make flag burning illegal - which is illegal in Mexico, most of South America, all of Asia, and most of Europe - and it was shot down almost immediately as even that comes under 1st amendment rights. Please don’t lump us into the same bucket as the UK. We may have a sharply divided electorate but we don’t have a failing state!
- whimsicalism 1y ago
  sorry but we are not like Europe, yes the US is backsliding but the notion that the Guardian would be blocked from publishing any article is absurd on face
isaacremuant 1y ago
Don't worry. You'll call us conspiracy theories once you get used to the new goalposts and we warn you about the next thing. How about instead of being depressed you start being vocal and defiant?
- GlacierFox 1y ago
  You know what, I think I've become lethargic after all the backwards garbage going on in my country attacking my way of life on all fronts - from rampant crime to government censorship. Your comment just gave me a kick up the ass. I'm gonna try and get some local stuff going in opposition to this lunacy.
infamouscow 1y ago
America's Founders saw civil rights as inherent in the Constitution's framework, rooted in natural law. They added the Bill of Rights as an explicit bulwark. That's why we have the 1st Amendment's free speech, and if that falls, the 2nd Amendment ensures we have guns.
- dragonsky67 1y ago
  How's that working for you at the moment? Sorry for the snide comment, but considering the last 6 - 8 months in the US, at least from what is being reported in the outside world, the 1st amendment doesn't seem to be providing much in the way of protection, and unless I'm missing something the general public doesn't seem to have the level of interest that would be required for your 2nd amendment to play out in any meaningful way.
  - pembrook 1y ago
    It’s working fantastic. US media is great at generating hysteria (competitive market pressures in the war for attention), but the US is at essentially very little risk for speech suppression at the level of the UK right now.
    - osullivj 1y ago
      UK too, and concerned. I agree that amendment 1 and 2 provisions effectively underpin individual freedom in the US due to founder perspicacity. My fear re US constitutional provision is on separation of powers, and transfer of power. Fortunately Pence held to the constitution. Nobody ever willingly takes their hands of the levers of power!
    - dyauspitr 1y ago
      Yeah just physical suppression with active military patrolling major cities.
    - nosianu 1y ago
      > It’s working fantastic. The ignorance of what's been happening the last few months is ridiculous. Trump and his people have successfully pressured, or denied access, or removed security clearances, or demonetized (public broadcasting), or directly fired, or just called out to cause a hate-storm from his supporters, companies, organizations, individuals. Oh sure, it is different from the UK: Instead of technical blocks and surveillance this administration targets people and organizations directly. https://www.ap.org/news-highlights/spotlights/2025/paramount-will-pay-16-million-in-settlement-with-trump-over-60-minutes-interview/ https://www.ap.org/news-highlights/spotlights/2025/paramount... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/6/11/us-journalist-dropped-by-abc-over-trump-administration-hater-comment https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/6/11/us-journalist-dropp... https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/07/media/trump-cnn-press-conference https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/07/media/trump-cnn-press-con... https://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/11/the-media-fears-231138 https://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/11/the-media-fe... https://www.npr.org/2025/03/01/g-s1-51489/voice-of-america-bias-inquiry https://www.npr.org/2025/03/01/g-s1-51489/voice-of-america-b... https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/corporate-media-caves-trump https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/corporate-media-caves-t...
xandrius 1y ago
How were you not aware of UK precedents in surveillance and blocking Internet connections before 6 months ago? In my books, the UK is the father of Orwellian censorship and surveillance, they just didn't get down to do it completely (yet).

When ES leaked his info to the Guardian people, they could still (2013) use the Guardian's US base to publish, protected by the US' stronger freedom of speech laws. Now, in 2025, if the same were to happen again, I'm not sure that would work quite the same way, with Trump aggressively taking American citizens' rights away. Maybe The Guardian should open a branch in Sealand...

SlowTao 1y ago
It was David Graeber that said we should be wary of places like The Guardian. They are a wolf in sheeps clothing. Used a lot of the more liberal momentum of the early 2010s combined with promoting some of the more left leaning writters to gain a fair bit of clout. But underneath, they will conform to the power structures if it comes down to survival. Alas, they nay not be a Sealand edition although that would be neat.
- lyu07282 1y ago
  This was made really obvious since the Gaza genocide began, the guardian was pushing propaganda really hard like everybody else, but now public opinion has shifted enough to the point that continued total denial of reality would cost the guardian more credibility so there was a noticable shift in the way they talk about it now. This way they can preserve some credibility for the next time they need to push propaganda on other fronts. in the US the NYT is similar, they will sometimes allow stuff get published to manufacture credibility for when they actually need it. Like see the Iraq war for example.
cuuupid 1y ago
No American citizens’ rights have been taken away or can be taken away by a President. We have whistleblowers and leakers from the administration itself on a literal weekly basis, our own Department of State actively funds Signal and Tor, our media has been heavily criticizing Trump and his allies for years. A couple organizations got hit with lawsuits for publishing misinformation or skirting campaign law, but that’s about it. They tried to make flag burning illegal - which is illegal in Mexico, most of South America, all of Asia, and most of Europe - and it was shot down almost immediately as even that comes under 1st amendment rights. Please don’t lump us into the same bucket as the UK. We may have a sharply divided electorate but we don’t have a failing state!
whimsicalism 1y ago
sorry but we are not like Europe, yes the US is backsliding but the notion that the Guardian would be blocked from publishing any article is absurd on face

isaacremuant 1y ago

Don't worry. You'll call us conspiracy theories once you get used to the new goalposts and we warn you about the next thing. How about instead of being depressed you start being vocal and defiant?

GlacierFox 1y ago
You know what, I think I've become lethargic after all the backwards garbage going on in my country attacking my way of life on all fronts - from rampant crime to government censorship. Your comment just gave me a kick up the ass. I'm gonna try and get some local stuff going in opposition to this lunacy.

infamouscow 1y ago

America's Founders saw civil rights as inherent in the Constitution's framework, rooted in natural law. They added the Bill of Rights as an explicit bulwark. That's why we have the 1st Amendment's free speech, and if that falls, the 2nd Amendment ensures we have guns.

dragonsky67 1y ago
How's that working for you at the moment? Sorry for the snide comment, but considering the last 6 - 8 months in the US, at least from what is being reported in the outside world, the 1st amendment doesn't seem to be providing much in the way of protection, and unless I'm missing something the general public doesn't seem to have the level of interest that would be required for your 2nd amendment to play out in any meaningful way.
- pembrook 1y ago
  It’s working fantastic. US media is great at generating hysteria (competitive market pressures in the war for attention), but the US is at essentially very little risk for speech suppression at the level of the UK right now.
  - osullivj 1y ago
    UK too, and concerned. I agree that amendment 1 and 2 provisions effectively underpin individual freedom in the US due to founder perspicacity. My fear re US constitutional provision is on separation of powers, and transfer of power. Fortunately Pence held to the constitution. Nobody ever willingly takes their hands of the levers of power!
  - dyauspitr 1y ago
    Yeah just physical suppression with active military patrolling major cities.
  - nosianu 1y ago
    > It’s working fantastic. The ignorance of what's been happening the last few months is ridiculous. Trump and his people have successfully pressured, or denied access, or removed security clearances, or demonetized (public broadcasting), or directly fired, or just called out to cause a hate-storm from his supporters, companies, organizations, individuals. Oh sure, it is different from the UK: Instead of technical blocks and surveillance this administration targets people and organizations directly. https://www.ap.org/news-highlights/spotlights/2025/paramount-will-pay-16-million-in-settlement-with-trump-over-60-minutes-interview/ https://www.ap.org/news-highlights/spotlights/2025/paramount... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/6/11/us-journalist-dropped-by-abc-over-trump-administration-hater-comment https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/6/11/us-journalist-dropp... https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/07/media/trump-cnn-press-conference https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/07/media/trump-cnn-press-con... https://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/11/the-media-fears-231138 https://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/11/the-media-fe... https://www.npr.org/2025/03/01/g-s1-51489/voice-of-america-bias-inquiry https://www.npr.org/2025/03/01/g-s1-51489/voice-of-america-b... https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/corporate-media-caves-trump https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/corporate-media-caves-t...

xandrius 1y ago

How were you not aware of UK precedents in surveillance and blocking Internet connections before 6 months ago? In my books, the UK is the father of Orwellian censorship and surveillance, they just didn't get down to do it completely (yet).