3 ms·

It risks career. 2 ejections and you won’t fly for the military any more.

by keepamovin 1y ago

drdo 1y ago
Even if the ejections happened with no fault on your part?
- matusp 1y ago
  I think it's about health concerns
- pixelfarmer 1y ago
  Your spine doesn't care why an ejection happened.
shawabawa3 1y ago
Also isn't there like 5-10% fatality rate?
- 542354234235 1y ago
  That might also be influenced by the situation which necessitated the ejection. Ejecting in optimal conditions could have a 0.1% fatality rate (not a real statistic), but cases of ejecting from a disintegrating plane at 100 feet probably aren't as safe.
- Tuna-Fish 1y ago
  Not with modern Martin-Baker seats. IIRC since 2000, something like 800 ejections have happened, of which one lead to a fatality, which was caused by improper maintenance to the seat. (Martin-Baker was chastised for not warning maintainers of the specific risks of overtightening certain bolts above printed spec.) When Russians were still flying planes deep over Ukraine, they have something like a 50% fatality rate on ejection, but that might be exacerbated by Ukrainian locals often finding the ejected pilots before any military force does, and people getting bombed have historically not liked the people flying the bombers much. When a pilot on the ground has a lot of bruises and a snapped neck, it's often hard to identify whether that happened during the ejection, during the landing, or after. And even when the cause was clearly violence, the emergency services might not be overly interested in blaming anyone or anything but the seat.
  - LorenPechtel 1y ago
    And note the situation over Ukraine. There are systems like the Patriot--you do not want to be above the horizon to one of them. But so long as you're some distance from the launcher and stay very low the Patriot can't see you. But that puts you very much in danger from stuff like a Stinger and when one finds your engine you're going to go in very, very fast.
incone123 1y ago
I went to an ejected pilot call when I worked in EMS. Guy was ok but protocol was handle as potential spinal injury. The force of ejecting puts a lot of compression on intervertebral discs and the effect is cumulative so more ejections means more chance of trashing your back.
- delfinom 1y ago
  I'm surprised they don't design the seats such that they pop out two bars under your armpit so that you transfer some of the forces into your shoulder and collar bone instead of just the spine. Same way car seat belts horribly injure people if they let it rest on their stomachs instead of on their hips.
  - kridsdale1 1y ago
    These things are rocket powered and deploy in milliseconds. That sounds like a great way to exit the plane without your arms.
  - datameta 1y ago
    Not a bad idea at face value but as opposed to seatbelts it introduces additional complexity that has to handle every eventuality including G forces from any direction, and still function perfectly. Probably has failure modes that increase injury risk. But this isn't a bad line of thought to go down, ultimately.
  - johndunne 1y ago
    The forces involved would only pop your shoulders and not provide any support for your back via your underarm. And the speed the bars would need to come out at, might end up inside your chest cavity. The ejection seats are a last ditch save from certain death. I’d take the loss of an inch or two to my height than the alternative.
  - LorenPechtel 1y ago
    1) It's too fast. 2) Think your shoulders could take it?? It's IIRC ~15g. I do think they probably could make a gentler ejection mode as the seats are built for the worst case. The lower your airspeed the longer you have to get high enough to clear the tail and thus less acceleration is needed.
burnte 1y ago
It depends on why and your medicals. There's not hard limit of 2.
- keepamovin 1y ago
  I guess trashing a couple hundred million dollars is a occasionally considered an issue tho looking at how contracts have traditionally been funded you’d be forgiven for thinking it wasn’t
  - hluska 1y ago
    It’s a massive issue - crashes are investigated and it’s not uncommon for a pilot to lose their jobs if they deviate from procedures. A few years back, a Marine Colonel was relieved of a prestigious command after being found to have ejected too early: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/10/31/pilot-of-f-35-crashed-south-carolina-ejected-after-malfunctions-disorientation.html https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/10/31/pilot-of-f-35...
    - LorenPechtel 1y ago
      Note that that was the third review. The first two exonerated him--the real problem was his helmet wigged out. His plane was actually flyable but it was lying to him. And the rule was if the plane is not responding properly to pilot commands below 6,000' AGL eject.
      - hluska 1y ago
        These details have nothing to do with the comment I was replying to. They’re irrelevant.
  - burnte 1y ago
    Depends on who trashed it and why. Because you screwed up? You ride the bus. Because you were piloting an experimental craft in a test? Take a week off. Because you were in a billion dollar jet and the landing gear broke making the plane think it was on the ground? Definitely not the pilot's fault. Context is always important.

It risks career. 2 ejections and you won’t fly for the military any more.

drdo 1y ago

Even if the ejections happened with no fault on your part?

matusp 1y ago
I think it's about health concerns
pixelfarmer 1y ago
Your spine doesn't care why an ejection happened.

shawabawa3 1y ago

Also isn't there like 5-10% fatality rate?

542354234235 1y ago
That might also be influenced by the situation which necessitated the ejection. Ejecting in optimal conditions could have a 0.1% fatality rate (not a real statistic), but cases of ejecting from a disintegrating plane at 100 feet probably aren't as safe.
Tuna-Fish 1y ago
Not with modern Martin-Baker seats. IIRC since 2000, something like 800 ejections have happened, of which one lead to a fatality, which was caused by improper maintenance to the seat. (Martin-Baker was chastised for not warning maintainers of the specific risks of overtightening certain bolts above printed spec.) When Russians were still flying planes deep over Ukraine, they have something like a 50% fatality rate on ejection, but that might be exacerbated by Ukrainian locals often finding the ejected pilots before any military force does, and people getting bombed have historically not liked the people flying the bombers much. When a pilot on the ground has a lot of bruises and a snapped neck, it's often hard to identify whether that happened during the ejection, during the landing, or after. And even when the cause was clearly violence, the emergency services might not be overly interested in blaming anyone or anything but the seat.
- LorenPechtel 1y ago
  And note the situation over Ukraine. There are systems like the Patriot--you do not want to be above the horizon to one of them. But so long as you're some distance from the launcher and stay very low the Patriot can't see you. But that puts you very much in danger from stuff like a Stinger and when one finds your engine you're going to go in very, very fast.

incone123 1y ago

I went to an ejected pilot call when I worked in EMS. Guy was ok but protocol was handle as potential spinal injury. The force of ejecting puts a lot of compression on intervertebral discs and the effect is cumulative so more ejections means more chance of trashing your back.

delfinom 1y ago
I'm surprised they don't design the seats such that they pop out two bars under your armpit so that you transfer some of the forces into your shoulder and collar bone instead of just the spine. Same way car seat belts horribly injure people if they let it rest on their stomachs instead of on their hips.
- kridsdale1 1y ago
  These things are rocket powered and deploy in milliseconds. That sounds like a great way to exit the plane without your arms.
- datameta 1y ago
  Not a bad idea at face value but as opposed to seatbelts it introduces additional complexity that has to handle every eventuality including G forces from any direction, and still function perfectly. Probably has failure modes that increase injury risk. But this isn't a bad line of thought to go down, ultimately.
- johndunne 1y ago
  The forces involved would only pop your shoulders and not provide any support for your back via your underarm. And the speed the bars would need to come out at, might end up inside your chest cavity. The ejection seats are a last ditch save from certain death. I’d take the loss of an inch or two to my height than the alternative.
- LorenPechtel 1y ago
  1) It's too fast. 2) Think your shoulders could take it?? It's IIRC ~15g. I do think they probably could make a gentler ejection mode as the seats are built for the worst case. The lower your airspeed the longer you have to get high enough to clear the tail and thus less acceleration is needed.

burnte 1y ago

It depends on why and your medicals. There's not hard limit of 2.

keepamovin 1y ago
I guess trashing a couple hundred million dollars is a occasionally considered an issue tho looking at how contracts have traditionally been funded you’d be forgiven for thinking it wasn’t
- hluska 1y ago
  It’s a massive issue - crashes are investigated and it’s not uncommon for a pilot to lose their jobs if they deviate from procedures. A few years back, a Marine Colonel was relieved of a prestigious command after being found to have ejected too early: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/10/31/pilot-of-f-35-crashed-south-carolina-ejected-after-malfunctions-disorientation.html https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/10/31/pilot-of-f-35...
  - LorenPechtel 1y ago
    Note that that was the third review. The first two exonerated him--the real problem was his helmet wigged out. His plane was actually flyable but it was lying to him. And the rule was if the plane is not responding properly to pilot commands below 6,000' AGL eject.
    - hluska 1y ago
      These details have nothing to do with the comment I was replying to. They’re irrelevant.
- burnte 1y ago
  Depends on who trashed it and why. Because you screwed up? You ride the bus. Because you were piloting an experimental craft in a test? Take a week off. Because you were in a billion dollar jet and the landing gear broke making the plane think it was on the ground? Definitely not the pilot's fault. Context is always important.