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Incredible achievement, but what is more incredible is how many people (including almost all of my friends circle) have started rooting for SpaceX to fail due t

Incredible achievement, but what is more incredible is how many people (including almost all of my friends circle) have started rooting for SpaceX to fail due to the shenanigans of its founder. I think as a culture we've lost the ability to compartmentalize. We should be able to criticize and even despise the head of a company, and at the same time celebrate when the intelligence and hard work of the countless smart and hard-working people at that company push the boundaries of what is possible for humanity.

maxehmookau 1y ago
[flagged]
- lstodd 1y ago
  At a cost of indiscriminately imprisoning and killing people (remember Korolyov and von Braun)? Surely. he-he. If Musk does achieve a second foothold for the humanity, then any and all objections to his methods become irrelevant. So far he does deliver. So we wait for the final result. Also, if you don't know, we've got a war in europe for like 3.5 years already. I'm seriously curious how many times a space-x total program cost since their start in 2000s has been already sunk into that.
  - MOARDONGZPLZ 1y ago
    Setting aside the founder or company itself, philosophically and ethically the “ends justify any means” concept is deeply flawed.
    - natch 1y ago
      I agree with your general statement, but in this particular case nobody has credibly articulated any real problem with the means.
    - Zigurd 1y ago
      Especially when the ends are even less likely to work then Marxism Leninism
      - lstodd 1y ago
        But the scientific method does work. So we observe the experiment kindly undertaken by Mr Musk. And then when some results happen we decide. Remember, development of the R-7 into the most reliable expendable booster took about 40 years and that with full backing of a Soviet Union.
  - anthem2025 1y ago
    [dead]
- natch 1y ago
  That is a super bad take and we will probably both get flagged and rightly so (in fact I will even flag myself to get this off HN faster if it’s not deemed helpful) but your attempted slur deserves a response. The parties opposed to child rape and unreasonable levels of immigration in Europe get called far right because they do scoop up a few far right supporters. But that’s unfair given the alternatives. HN really isn’t the place but let’s just say overall maybe it would be better if Europe doesn’t devolve further away from freedom and western values.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - ActorNightly 1y ago
    >The parties opposed to child rape and unreasonable levels of immigration in Europe get called far right because they do scoop up a few far right supporters. Flagging your comment as well because AFD is definitely not a "few far right supporters". The issue isn't being against child rape and unreasonable levels of immigration. The issue is that the people who are against that are all liars and charlatans, just like in United States, where the party of moral righteousness and small government is full of child molesters and currently doing some pretty authoritarian shit. Just because a problem isn't getting addressed as fast as one hopes doesn't mean that one should completely jump ship to literally anyone who offers support for your cause.
nerdjon 1y ago
This is something I am finding myself wrestling with a lot right now. On the one hand I am a major space nerd and I see the value of what SpaceX is doing. Especially with it really seeming like no one is anywhere near their level. What kind of scientific advancements will be possible once this thing can be used normally and launches like this become commonplace. But at the same time it is impossible to ignore the Elon situation. And that also directly relates to Trump as well. We are in this bonkers situation where he helped get a largely anti-science administration in power and yet also runs one of the companies that will help science. It does raise serious questions about whether or not there will be limitations on what types of science can be done. Will they have some line in the sand and say they won't launch satellites that do "X", like maybe monitor climate change. I think maybe rooting for them to fail is a bit much, but I am sure as hell hoping that someone else can catch up. But in the mean time I will celebrate these achievements cautiously. Recognizing the amazing work that the engineers at SpaceX have put into this, because they do deserve a lot of credit for that.
- bethekidyouwant 1y ago
  “a satellite that monitors climate change” - really you think Elon Musk is not gonna fly satellites with instruments on them that point downwards?
  - nerdjon 1y ago
    I am stating an example due to the current political discourse over climate change not that it would be something they specifically would not do. My point with stating it, is it is not unreasonable to ask the question if we are reliant on a company with someone like Elon owning it is what the company will and will not fly going to be dependent on politics.
  - anthem2025 1y ago
    [dead]
- bilsbie 1y ago
  What if the guy who built the world’s best rocket from scratch, who popularized EVs and brought self-driving tech to the masses, who built brain computer interfaces, dug tunnels, started OpenAI and PayPal… What if he’s not an idiot? What if we should actually be listening to what this guy says and considering it? What if he has the same ability to see what nobody else can see early on in politics… As he’s shown across the rest of his career?
yepyip 1y ago
[flagged]
bad_haircut72 1y ago
[flagged]
- Aeolun 1y ago
  If the king managed to build their palace in the clouds? Yes. That’s a pretty awesome achievement. Not the kings’s achievement, but the achievement stands.
  - anthem2025 1y ago
    [dead]
saubeidl 1y ago
Wernher von Braun had the incredible achievement of shooting the first rocket up to space - the V2. Thanks to the intelligence and hard work of the countless smart and hard-working people he pushed the boundaries of what is possible for humanity. Still, I find it hard to accept we should compartmentalize and not think about who those rockets were built for and with what purpose.
- ls612 1y ago
  >Still, I find it hard to accept we should compartmentalize and not think about who those rockets were built for and with what purpose. Yet that is exactly what the US did and we got the Saturn V out of doing so.
idontwantthis 1y ago
[flagged]
- metabagel 1y ago
  Spacex under Elon Musk is the precursor to Weyland-Yutani.
yoz-y 1y ago
I mostly hope that Blue Origin will be a worthy competitor. For me what this shows that the most important thing for a CEO to be successful is to have money, a vison (no matter how unrealistic or unnecessary) and a cult personality. Nothing else matters. Also it shows that with enough virtual money (I.e.: massively overblown Tesla stock) you can do just about anything.
- Zigurd 1y ago
  They each have different failings. Elon is taking an absolutely bullshit approach to project management: if Starship can't meet payload specs, it can't refuel in orbit. Neither of those monumentally risky milestones are even close to being attempted. Jeff loves measurement and control. So he replaced his experienced aerospace guy with the Alexa guy. Because the Alexa guy works the Amazon way: everything measured and tightly controlled.
- 0xffff2 1y ago
  Fun trivia fact of the day: BO was founded 2 years _before_ SpaceX. 25 years later, SpaceX has revolutionized the launch industry. Meanwhile, BO has only just had their first (and only) orbital launch at the beginning of this year. It's unclear to me what, if anything BO could do to really catch up at this point. It's clear that money isn't the defining factor at least. When BO was founded Bezos was the richest man in the world. It has floundered for so long that Musk was able to build up a cult of personality around SpaceX and parlay that into even more money than Bezos.
- terminalshort 1y ago
  Blue Origin was founded before SpaceX, and Jeff Bezos had way more money back then. And when Elon Musk founded SpaceX few people had heard of him and he wasn't even a billionaire. Tesla didn't exist yet, so there was no "massively overblown stock." And where is the "unrealistic vision?" Looks like it turned out to be pretty realistic to me.
  - metabagel 1y ago
    Musk has a self-destructive streak where his ambition exceeds his understanding. Examples are over-automation of Tesla Model 3 production, autonomous vehicles without Lidar, and the Cybertruck. Will Starship every carry a large enough payload to justify the launch cost? I'm skeptical. Musk's Mars fixation is nuts.
ActorNightly 1y ago
[flagged]
- avmich 1y ago
  > Starship is such a fantastically dumb idea I'm sure there could be better rocket configurations than Starship - but so far Starship is better than other existing schemas. Starship is really good comparing to others - getting the cheapest kilogram to orbit cost in perspective.
  - metabagel 1y ago
    That's assuming it can carry the payload envisioned, which seems iffy at this point.
    - avmich 1y ago
      > That's assuming it can carry the payload envisioned, which seems iffy at this point. Envisioned payload? What do you mean?
  - ActorNightly 1y ago
    As I said in my other comments, just cause something is sold at a lower cost doesn't mean its optimal.
    - avmich 1y ago
      > As I said in my other comments, just cause something is sold at a lower cost doesn't mean its optimal. No, Starship isn't optimal, it's just better than existing alternative by this specific criteria. If you need some other quality, you may rationally choose something else. The point was that the price of kilogram to orbit is an important criteria for many customers, so they logically choose Starship.
- terminalshort 1y ago
  So he's generally an ass to work for, got behind a politician you don't like, and fired a bunch of bureaucrats that probably shouldn't have been fired? Is that it? GWB started a completely unnecessary war, so if that's your example of OK in comparison, then I struggle to understand your standards. > Vertical landings using engines to slow is inneficient. Sure, you reduce system complexity in not having wings or parachutes, but you gain it all back with things like engine restarts, and the need for high pressure ratio engines. Well, the most cost effective rocket ever built uses this, but please do elaborate. What system do you propose that would be better?
protoster 1y ago
[flagged]
- leobg 1y ago
  Did you ever make the effort to ask why he did those things? There’s a possibility that the person who aimed high for team humanity with SpaceX, Tesla and Neuralink was doing exactly the same thing in the examples you named.
  - metabagel 1y ago
    https://www.impactcounter.com/dashboard?view=table&sort=title&order=asc https://www.impactcounter.com/dashboard?view=table&sort=titl...
- Sparyjerry 1y ago
  Supporting DOGE is an extremely intelligent thing to do with the amount of debt our government has, 34 TRILLION last time I checked. Supporting a democratically electable party, and eventually the elected president of your choice is the right and moral thing to do by all objective measures, including if you believe in majority rule. Politics is always about disagreement and every generation thinks their disagreements are the most dire, but in reality live moves on. By siding with the literal winning party you are defacto 'moral' in the eyes of the majority.
  - jurking_hoff 1y ago
    [dead]
anthem2025 1y ago
[dead]
GMoromisato 1y ago
I'm rooting for SpaceX to succeed, and there are plenty of people like me. This is not to condemn or argue with anyone who feels differently. But I think we need to be more visible.
jaybrendansmith 1y ago
I am rooting for them all. I don't need to like the founder, or his politics. I understand that Gwynne Shotwell and so many others are behind much of the progress.
Sparyjerry 1y ago
Shenanigans of its founder being falsely accused of doing a Nazi salute when he was just waiving and not agreeing with certain peoples politics. When someone tries to compare someone to the most evil person that has ever existed then odds are that person is lying through their teeth. On one had we have a 'wave,' literally, and on the other hand we have genocide. It's incredible to me how many people choose not to see through the lies about Elon Musk, even though they have the capability, and to this day think he is a nazi.

maxehmookau 1y ago

[flagged]

lstodd 1y ago
At a cost of indiscriminately imprisoning and killing people (remember Korolyov and von Braun)? Surely. he-he. If Musk does achieve a second foothold for the humanity, then any and all objections to his methods become irrelevant. So far he does deliver. So we wait for the final result. Also, if you don't know, we've got a war in europe for like 3.5 years already. I'm seriously curious how many times a space-x total program cost since their start in 2000s has been already sunk into that.
- MOARDONGZPLZ 1y ago
  Setting aside the founder or company itself, philosophically and ethically the “ends justify any means” concept is deeply flawed.
  - natch 1y ago
    I agree with your general statement, but in this particular case nobody has credibly articulated any real problem with the means.
  - Zigurd 1y ago
    Especially when the ends are even less likely to work then Marxism Leninism
    - lstodd 1y ago
      But the scientific method does work. So we observe the experiment kindly undertaken by Mr Musk. And then when some results happen we decide. Remember, development of the R-7 into the most reliable expendable booster took about 40 years and that with full backing of a Soviet Union.
- anthem2025 1y ago
  [dead]
natch 1y ago
That is a super bad take and we will probably both get flagged and rightly so (in fact I will even flag myself to get this off HN faster if it’s not deemed helpful) but your attempted slur deserves a response. The parties opposed to child rape and unreasonable levels of immigration in Europe get called far right because they do scoop up a few far right supporters. But that’s unfair given the alternatives. HN really isn’t the place but let’s just say overall maybe it would be better if Europe doesn’t devolve further away from freedom and western values.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- ActorNightly 1y ago
  >The parties opposed to child rape and unreasonable levels of immigration in Europe get called far right because they do scoop up a few far right supporters. Flagging your comment as well because AFD is definitely not a "few far right supporters". The issue isn't being against child rape and unreasonable levels of immigration. The issue is that the people who are against that are all liars and charlatans, just like in United States, where the party of moral righteousness and small government is full of child molesters and currently doing some pretty authoritarian shit. Just because a problem isn't getting addressed as fast as one hopes doesn't mean that one should completely jump ship to literally anyone who offers support for your cause.

nerdjon 1y ago

This is something I am finding myself wrestling with a lot right now. On the one hand I am a major space nerd and I see the value of what SpaceX is doing. Especially with it really seeming like no one is anywhere near their level. What kind of scientific advancements will be possible once this thing can be used normally and launches like this become commonplace. But at the same time it is impossible to ignore the Elon situation. And that also directly relates to Trump as well. We are in this bonkers situation where he helped get a largely anti-science administration in power and yet also runs one of the companies that will help science. It does raise serious questions about whether or not there will be limitations on what types of science can be done. Will they have some line in the sand and say they won't launch satellites that do "X", like maybe monitor climate change. I think maybe rooting for them to fail is a bit much, but I am sure as hell hoping that someone else can catch up. But in the mean time I will celebrate these achievements cautiously. Recognizing the amazing work that the engineers at SpaceX have put into this, because they do deserve a lot of credit for that.

bethekidyouwant 1y ago
“a satellite that monitors climate change” - really you think Elon Musk is not gonna fly satellites with instruments on them that point downwards?
- nerdjon 1y ago
  I am stating an example due to the current political discourse over climate change not that it would be something they specifically would not do. My point with stating it, is it is not unreasonable to ask the question if we are reliant on a company with someone like Elon owning it is what the company will and will not fly going to be dependent on politics.
- anthem2025 1y ago
  [dead]
bilsbie 1y ago
What if the guy who built the world’s best rocket from scratch, who popularized EVs and brought self-driving tech to the masses, who built brain computer interfaces, dug tunnels, started OpenAI and PayPal… What if he’s not an idiot? What if we should actually be listening to what this guy says and considering it? What if he has the same ability to see what nobody else can see early on in politics… As he’s shown across the rest of his career?

yepyip 1y ago

[flagged]

bad_haircut72 1y ago

[flagged]

Aeolun 1y ago
If the king managed to build their palace in the clouds? Yes. That’s a pretty awesome achievement. Not the kings’s achievement, but the achievement stands.
- anthem2025 1y ago
  [dead]

saubeidl 1y ago

Wernher von Braun had the incredible achievement of shooting the first rocket up to space - the V2. Thanks to the intelligence and hard work of the countless smart and hard-working people he pushed the boundaries of what is possible for humanity. Still, I find it hard to accept we should compartmentalize and not think about who those rockets were built for and with what purpose.

ls612 1y ago
>Still, I find it hard to accept we should compartmentalize and not think about who those rockets were built for and with what purpose. Yet that is exactly what the US did and we got the Saturn V out of doing so.

idontwantthis 1y ago

[flagged]

metabagel 1y ago
Spacex under Elon Musk is the precursor to Weyland-Yutani.

yoz-y 1y ago

I mostly hope that Blue Origin will be a worthy competitor. For me what this shows that the most important thing for a CEO to be successful is to have money, a vison (no matter how unrealistic or unnecessary) and a cult personality. Nothing else matters. Also it shows that with enough virtual money (I.e.: massively overblown Tesla stock) you can do just about anything.

Zigurd 1y ago
They each have different failings. Elon is taking an absolutely bullshit approach to project management: if Starship can't meet payload specs, it can't refuel in orbit. Neither of those monumentally risky milestones are even close to being attempted. Jeff loves measurement and control. So he replaced his experienced aerospace guy with the Alexa guy. Because the Alexa guy works the Amazon way: everything measured and tightly controlled.
0xffff2 1y ago
Fun trivia fact of the day: BO was founded 2 years _before_ SpaceX. 25 years later, SpaceX has revolutionized the launch industry. Meanwhile, BO has only just had their first (and only) orbital launch at the beginning of this year. It's unclear to me what, if anything BO could do to really catch up at this point. It's clear that money isn't the defining factor at least. When BO was founded Bezos was the richest man in the world. It has floundered for so long that Musk was able to build up a cult of personality around SpaceX and parlay that into even more money than Bezos.
terminalshort 1y ago
Blue Origin was founded before SpaceX, and Jeff Bezos had way more money back then. And when Elon Musk founded SpaceX few people had heard of him and he wasn't even a billionaire. Tesla didn't exist yet, so there was no "massively overblown stock." And where is the "unrealistic vision?" Looks like it turned out to be pretty realistic to me.
- metabagel 1y ago
  Musk has a self-destructive streak where his ambition exceeds his understanding. Examples are over-automation of Tesla Model 3 production, autonomous vehicles without Lidar, and the Cybertruck. Will Starship every carry a large enough payload to justify the launch cost? I'm skeptical. Musk's Mars fixation is nuts.

ActorNightly 1y ago

[flagged]

avmich 1y ago
> Starship is such a fantastically dumb idea I'm sure there could be better rocket configurations than Starship - but so far Starship is better than other existing schemas. Starship is really good comparing to others - getting the cheapest kilogram to orbit cost in perspective.
- metabagel 1y ago
  That's assuming it can carry the payload envisioned, which seems iffy at this point.
  - avmich 1y ago
    > That's assuming it can carry the payload envisioned, which seems iffy at this point. Envisioned payload? What do you mean?
- ActorNightly 1y ago
  As I said in my other comments, just cause something is sold at a lower cost doesn't mean its optimal.
  - avmich 1y ago
    > As I said in my other comments, just cause something is sold at a lower cost doesn't mean its optimal. No, Starship isn't optimal, it's just better than existing alternative by this specific criteria. If you need some other quality, you may rationally choose something else. The point was that the price of kilogram to orbit is an important criteria for many customers, so they logically choose Starship.
terminalshort 1y ago
So he's generally an ass to work for, got behind a politician you don't like, and fired a bunch of bureaucrats that probably shouldn't have been fired? Is that it? GWB started a completely unnecessary war, so if that's your example of OK in comparison, then I struggle to understand your standards. > Vertical landings using engines to slow is inneficient. Sure, you reduce system complexity in not having wings or parachutes, but you gain it all back with things like engine restarts, and the need for high pressure ratio engines. Well, the most cost effective rocket ever built uses this, but please do elaborate. What system do you propose that would be better?

protoster 1y ago

[flagged]

leobg 1y ago
Did you ever make the effort to ask why he did those things? There’s a possibility that the person who aimed high for team humanity with SpaceX, Tesla and Neuralink was doing exactly the same thing in the examples you named.
- metabagel 1y ago
  https://www.impactcounter.com/dashboard?view=table&sort=title&order=asc https://www.impactcounter.com/dashboard?view=table&sort=titl...
Sparyjerry 1y ago
Supporting DOGE is an extremely intelligent thing to do with the amount of debt our government has, 34 TRILLION last time I checked. Supporting a democratically electable party, and eventually the elected president of your choice is the right and moral thing to do by all objective measures, including if you believe in majority rule. Politics is always about disagreement and every generation thinks their disagreements are the most dire, but in reality live moves on. By siding with the literal winning party you are defacto 'moral' in the eyes of the majority.
- jurking_hoff 1y ago
  [dead]

anthem2025 1y ago

[dead]

GMoromisato 1y ago

I'm rooting for SpaceX to succeed, and there are plenty of people like me. This is not to condemn or argue with anyone who feels differently. But I think we need to be more visible.

jaybrendansmith 1y ago

I am rooting for them all. I don't need to like the founder, or his politics. I understand that Gwynne Shotwell and so many others are behind much of the progress.

Sparyjerry 1y ago

Shenanigans of its founder being falsely accused of doing a Nazi salute when he was just waiving and not agreeing with certain peoples politics. When someone tries to compare someone to the most evil person that has ever existed then odds are that person is lying through their teeth. On one had we have a 'wave,' literally, and on the other hand we have genocide. It's incredible to me how many people choose not to see through the lies about Elon Musk, even though they have the capability, and to this day think he is a nazi.