4 ms·

ICE uses celebrity loophole to hide deportation flights

141 points by JKCalhoun 1y ago

JKCalhoun 1y ago
Why am I still surprised that the wealthy have special laws just for their privacy? It seems though that simple elimination would reveal the "flights we're not supposed to know about". Or perhaps we'll get actual human "plane spotters" around the airports to log these radio-silent flights.
- crote 1y ago
  The flights aren't radio silent, as that would result in significant safety risks. They have just been put on an ignorelist which is voluntarily honored by most commercial flight tracking websites, like FlightRadar24[0]. However, nothing is stopping you from creating your own flight detection network which doesn't follow the ignorelist. A well-known one is the volunteer-run ADS-B Exchange[1]. [0]: https://www.flightradar24.com https://www.flightradar24.com [1]: https://www.adsbexchange.com/ https://www.adsbexchange.com/
  - dawnerd 1y ago
    Super easy to setup your own for under 50 bucks. Plus if you feed to the tracking sites many give you pro/business accounts in exchange.
  - trogdor 1y ago
    It doesn’t look like an ignore list to me. See “FAA Source” blocking here: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd
- petertodd 1y ago
  > Why am I still surprised that the wealthy have special laws just for their privacy? The status quo is you or I can travel without significant non-government privacy concerns, as we blend into the crowd of millions of normal air travelers. Celebrities can't do that, as they get noticed by the public. Keeping the movements of their planes private just helps celebrities get to enjoy a similar level of privacy as the rest of us. I see nothing wrong with that. Furthermore, it's good that celebrities value their privacy. Everyone should. We can all members of society to value privacy and for those values to filter down into laws that also protect it.
  - vincnetas 1y ago
    When you're a celebrity, you can't have a cake and eat it too.
    - reliabilityguy 1y ago
      For many celebrities being famous and having no privacy is not a choice but rather an unwanted feature. Doesn’t mean that in order to fulfill your dream of being a top actor you have now to be at peace and accept all the paparazzi and fans.
      - petertodd 1y ago
        Also, while not as relevant to the OP's post, remember that not everyone is famous and rich. I'm not rich. But I did get a degree of fame due to that ridiculous HBO documentary falsely accusing me of being Satoshi. I'm not happy with the level of travel privacy out there and it would be definitely in my interests for it to be better. I have a very real risk that someone thinks I'm Satoshi and tries to track me down to get billions in BTC that I don't have.
  - wheelerwj 1y ago
    What are you talking about? Since when can the general public travel in privacy?
    - petertodd 1y ago
      My name is Peter Todd. I am a Canadian. Tell me, where am I right now? I traveled there recently. Governments certainly can find out that information, as my recent flights are recorded in lots of databases accessible to the. But it's much harder for non-government entities not directly involved in the travel to find this out due to privacy laws (particularly in the EU).
- tialaramex 1y ago
  It has always been the case that the US was operated primarily for the benefit of those with capital, what is perhaps more novel is that where once economic growth was a 90-10 split between those who already had so much and those labouring, increasingly it's 100-0 or even worse, and so then there's no reason those doing the labour to achieve that growth ought to engage, better surely to eliminate the oppressors and reform the system. You would have to be really stupid to cause that but then, look at the people who did it, checks out.
mitchellh 1y ago
All politics aside, I want to note that this is not a “little known” thing and I’ve never seen it talked about as a “loophole.” I’m a pilot, I know hundreds more pilots. Most individuals who own a plane (even a Cessna that costs less than a car) know about and often use this program. It’s very much well known in the aviation community. And outside of that I’d say it would be more surprising to people that the general public can track any aircraft public or private! (Imagine everyone’s car being able to be real time tracked by license plate by anyone anytime) Now, bringing some politics in, it does feel like aircraft movement for the purpose of public government use should be documented and available.
- relaxing 1y ago
  You’re a pilot, you can probably think of some differences in the way aircraft operate versus roadcraft, that makes tracking them a much more reasonable proposition.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago
  > Imagine everyone’s car being able to be real time tracked by license plate by anyone anytime) Except ... every plane is being tracked in real time by the FAA (or other aeronautical organizations) for the good of both those on the plane and those around it. The question is not whether such tracking happens or not, but merely whether the data is publically available. The analogy with cars would require that someone is actually tracking car positions, which as far as we know is not happening at any significant scale.
  - miohtama 1y ago
    There was this funny Twitter account that was posting when dictators visited Geneve airport, but looks like it is taken down https://x.com/gva_watcher https://x.com/gva_watcher
  - 1y ago
svachalek 1y ago
Isn't the motto "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide?"
- bell-cot 1y ago
  Might you have meant to type "Rules are for thee, but not for me"?
- tastyface 1y ago
  Oh, they definitely know they’ve done something wrong.
FridayoLeary 1y ago
This is one of the worst written articles I've read in a while. It feels like a confused jumble of the authors personal grievances, clambering over each other trying to be heard. It's repetitive and mixes facts and opinion. I read through half the article before it got to discussing the point and even then I still have no clue what the author is talking about. Is it ICE? Is it evil celebrities? Is it the sinister Jet Lobby? Or is it something else entirely?
- draw_down 1y ago
  [dead]
- notthemessiah 1y ago
  Do you have any specific criticism? Or are you just bloviating?
- whamlastxmas 1y ago
  Agreed, it’s bad form to comment about this but good god is this writing bad. It’s like the first 5 paragraphs were repeating the same thing and only changing the wording
netfortius 1y ago
This part caught my attention: "People being flown out of the country by ICE are frequently shackled for the duration of the journey...". It made me think on how America was built: people forcibly put in shackles and brought in, from another continent, to work for free (for some), then other people shackled, when no longer of use (to some), when forcibly moved out.
Hizonner 1y ago
So there's a published list of aircraft that are trying to hide, but are still broadcasting their identity over the radio everywhere they go, while there's a whole hobby community receiving and sharing those broadcasts. Interesting approach.

141 points by JKCalhoun 1y ago

Why am I still surprised that the wealthy have special laws just for their privacy? It seems though that simple elimination would reveal the "flights we're not supposed to know about". Or perhaps we'll get actual human "plane spotters" around the airports to log these radio-silent flights.

crote 1y ago
The flights aren't radio silent, as that would result in significant safety risks. They have just been put on an ignorelist which is voluntarily honored by most commercial flight tracking websites, like FlightRadar24[0]. However, nothing is stopping you from creating your own flight detection network which doesn't follow the ignorelist. A well-known one is the volunteer-run ADS-B Exchange[1]. [0]: https://www.flightradar24.com https://www.flightradar24.com [1]: https://www.adsbexchange.com/ https://www.adsbexchange.com/
- dawnerd 1y ago
  Super easy to setup your own for under 50 bucks. Plus if you feed to the tracking sites many give you pro/business accounts in exchange.
- trogdor 1y ago
  It doesn’t look like an ignore list to me. See “FAA Source” blocking here: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd
petertodd 1y ago
> Why am I still surprised that the wealthy have special laws just for their privacy? The status quo is you or I can travel without significant non-government privacy concerns, as we blend into the crowd of millions of normal air travelers. Celebrities can't do that, as they get noticed by the public. Keeping the movements of their planes private just helps celebrities get to enjoy a similar level of privacy as the rest of us. I see nothing wrong with that. Furthermore, it's good that celebrities value their privacy. Everyone should. We can all members of society to value privacy and for those values to filter down into laws that also protect it.
- vincnetas 1y ago
  When you're a celebrity, you can't have a cake and eat it too.
  - reliabilityguy 1y ago
    For many celebrities being famous and having no privacy is not a choice but rather an unwanted feature. Doesn’t mean that in order to fulfill your dream of being a top actor you have now to be at peace and accept all the paparazzi and fans.
    - petertodd 1y ago
      Also, while not as relevant to the OP's post, remember that not everyone is famous and rich. I'm not rich. But I did get a degree of fame due to that ridiculous HBO documentary falsely accusing me of being Satoshi. I'm not happy with the level of travel privacy out there and it would be definitely in my interests for it to be better. I have a very real risk that someone thinks I'm Satoshi and tries to track me down to get billions in BTC that I don't have.
- wheelerwj 1y ago
  What are you talking about? Since when can the general public travel in privacy?
  - petertodd 1y ago
    My name is Peter Todd. I am a Canadian. Tell me, where am I right now? I traveled there recently. Governments certainly can find out that information, as my recent flights are recorded in lots of databases accessible to the. But it's much harder for non-government entities not directly involved in the travel to find this out due to privacy laws (particularly in the EU).
tialaramex 1y ago
It has always been the case that the US was operated primarily for the benefit of those with capital, what is perhaps more novel is that where once economic growth was a 90-10 split between those who already had so much and those labouring, increasingly it's 100-0 or even worse, and so then there's no reason those doing the labour to achieve that growth ought to engage, better surely to eliminate the oppressors and reform the system. You would have to be really stupid to cause that but then, look at the people who did it, checks out.

mitchellh 1y ago

All politics aside, I want to note that this is not a “little known” thing and I’ve never seen it talked about as a “loophole.” I’m a pilot, I know hundreds more pilots. Most individuals who own a plane (even a Cessna that costs less than a car) know about and often use this program. It’s very much well known in the aviation community. And outside of that I’d say it would be more surprising to people that the general public can track any aircraft public or private! (Imagine everyone’s car being able to be real time tracked by license plate by anyone anytime) Now, bringing some politics in, it does feel like aircraft movement for the purpose of public government use should be documented and available.

relaxing 1y ago
You’re a pilot, you can probably think of some differences in the way aircraft operate versus roadcraft, that makes tracking them a much more reasonable proposition.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago
> Imagine everyone’s car being able to be real time tracked by license plate by anyone anytime) Except ... every plane is being tracked in real time by the FAA (or other aeronautical organizations) for the good of both those on the plane and those around it. The question is not whether such tracking happens or not, but merely whether the data is publically available. The analogy with cars would require that someone is actually tracking car positions, which as far as we know is not happening at any significant scale.
- miohtama 1y ago
  There was this funny Twitter account that was posting when dictators visited Geneve airport, but looks like it is taken down https://x.com/gva_watcher https://x.com/gva_watcher
- 1y ago

svachalek 1y ago

Isn't the motto "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide?"

bell-cot 1y ago
Might you have meant to type "Rules are for thee, but not for me"?
tastyface 1y ago
Oh, they definitely know they’ve done something wrong.

FridayoLeary 1y ago

This is one of the worst written articles I've read in a while. It feels like a confused jumble of the authors personal grievances, clambering over each other trying to be heard. It's repetitive and mixes facts and opinion. I read through half the article before it got to discussing the point and even then I still have no clue what the author is talking about. Is it ICE? Is it evil celebrities? Is it the sinister Jet Lobby? Or is it something else entirely?

draw_down 1y ago
[dead]
notthemessiah 1y ago
Do you have any specific criticism? Or are you just bloviating?
whamlastxmas 1y ago
Agreed, it’s bad form to comment about this but good god is this writing bad. It’s like the first 5 paragraphs were repeating the same thing and only changing the wording

netfortius 1y ago

This part caught my attention: "People being flown out of the country by ICE are frequently shackled for the duration of the journey...". It made me think on how America was built: people forcibly put in shackles and brought in, from another continent, to work for free (for some), then other people shackled, when no longer of use (to some), when forcibly moved out.

Hizonner 1y ago

So there's a published list of aircraft that are trying to hide, but are still broadcasting their identity over the radio everywhere they go, while there's a whole hobby community receiving and sharing those broadcasts. Interesting approach.