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My wife and I took a road trip that included time in SF last year and seeing a Waymo was pretty neat. To save some money, we stayed in downtown Oakland and too
by Sohcahtoa82 1y ago
My wife and I took a road trip that included time in SF last year and seeing a Waymo was pretty neat.
To save some money, we stayed in downtown Oakland and took the BART into San Francisco. After getting ice cream at the Ghirardelli Chocolate shop, we were headed to Pier 39. My wife has a bad ankle and can't walk very far before needing a break to sit, and we could have taken another bus, we decided to take a Waymo for the novelty of it. It felt like being in the future.
I own a Tesla and have had trials of FSD, but being in a car that was ACTUALLY autonomous and didn't merely pretend to be was amazing. For that short ride of 7 city blocks, it was like being in a sci-fi film.
- kjkjadksj 1y agoWhy does tesla pretend to be autonomous? My friends with tesla fsd use it fully autonomously. It even finds a spot and parks for them.
- dazc 1y agoIt's just pretending to do that, seemingly?
- nutjob2 1y agoIt's a level 2 system, it can't be operated unattended. Your friends are risking thier lives as several people (now dead) have found out.
- bananalychee 1y agoWikipedia lists two fatal crashes involving Tesla FSD and one involving Waymo.
- jedberg 1y agoThey key difference is that the Teslas killed their passengers, the Waymo hit someone outside the car (and it wasn't the Waymo's fault, it was hit by another car).
- Animats 1y agoYes. [1] That incident got considerable publicity in the San Francisco media. But not because of the Waymo.[2][3] Someone was driving a Tesla on I-280 into SF. They'd previously been involved in a hit-and-run accident on the freeway. They exited I-280 at the 6th St. off ramp, which is a long straightaway. They entered surface streets at 98 MPH in a 25 MPH zone, ran through a red light, and reached the next intersection, where traffic was stopped at a red light. The Tesla Model Y plowed into a lane of stopped cars, killing one person and one dog, injuring seven others, and demolishing at least six vehicles. One of the vehicles waiting was a Waymo, which had no one on board at the time. The driver of the Tesla claims their brakes failed. "Police on Monday booked Zheng on one count of felony vehicular manslaughter, reckless driving causing injury, felony vandalism and speeding."[2] [1] https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/waymo-multi-car-wreck-san-francisco-driverless/3766860/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/waymo-multi-car-wr... [2] https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/crash-tesla-waymo-injuries-driver-arrest-20047538.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/crash-tesla-waymo-inj... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULalTHBQ3rI& https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULalTHBQ3rI&
- bananalychee 1y agoOnly one of the two, and it's not nearly enough data to draw a conclusion one way or another in any case.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- bananalychee 1y agoThe question should be less who was at fault and more would a human driver have reacted better in that situation and avoided the fatality. I'm not sure why you think that whether the fatality occurred inside or outside of the car changes the calculus, but in that case only one of the two documented Tesla FSD-related fatalities killed the driver. Judging by the incident statistics of Tesla's Autopilot going back over half a decade, I'm pretty sure it's significantly safer than the average human driver and continues to improve, and the point of comparison in the original post was with human driving rather than Waymo. I have no doubt that Waymo, with its constrained operating areas and parameters, is safer in aggregate than Tesla's general-purpose FSD system.
- nostrademons 1y agoWikipedia lists at least 28 fatal crashes involving Tesla FSD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_Autopilot_crashes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_Autopilot_crashe...
- bananalychee 1y agoFSD is not Autopilot despite the names being conflated today, but even if you want to count all 28, it's not enough to compare raw numbers of fatal incidents without considering the difference in scale. That's not to justify taking your eyes off the road when enabling FSD on a Tesla, but the OP did not suggest that either anyway.
- Fricken 1y agoIf Waymo were operating at 1000 times the scale then I suppose their total fatalities would be somewhere in the ballpark of 0 x 1000.
- codeka 1y ago> one involving Waymo Are you referring to the one where a Waymo, and several other cars, were stopped at a traffic light, when another car (incidentally, a Tesla) barreled into the traffic stack at 90 MPH, killing several people? Because I am not aware of any other fatal accidents where a Waymo was even slightly involved. I think it's, at best, misleading to refer to that in the same sentence as FSD-involved fatalities where FSD was the direct cause.
- JumpCrisscross 1y agoThere is no world in which New York lets Teslas drive autonomously in the next decade. Had they not been grandfathered in in California, I doubt politics there would have allowed it either.
- boppo1 1y agoSources? Havent heard of deaths except total idiots sleepping at 80mph.
- runako 1y agoIf the car needs any occupant to be awake, it is not an autonomous vehicle. Some of the best marketing ever behind convincing people that the word "autonomous" does not mean what we all know it means.
- afavour 1y agoYou don't need to cite accidents when you're stating the true fact that the system is not approved for unattended use.
- Dylan16807 1y agoAre you trying to draw a distinction between sleeping versus looking away from the road and not paying attention to it? I expect both situations to have similar results with similar levels of danger in a Tesla, and the latter is the bare minimum for autonomous/unattended.
- kjkjadksj 1y agoI think we are at the point where the data suggests they bear more risk when they drive the tesla themselves. See the bloomburg report on accidents per mile.
- Sohcahtoa82 1y agoIf I can't use the center console to pick a song on Spotify without the car yelling at me to watch the road, it's not autonomous.
- kibwen 1y agoNo, rather, if the manufacturer of the self-driving software doesn't take full legal liability for actions taken by the car, then it's not autonomous. This is the once and final criterion for a self-driving vehicle.
- Sohcahtoa82 1y agoSounds like we're in agreement then. Right now, Tesla skirts legal liability by saying that the driver needs to watch the road and be ready to take control, and then uses measures like detecting your hand on the wheel and tracking your gaze to make sure you're watching the road. If a car driving on FSD crashes, Tesla will say it's the driver's fault for not monitoring the drive.
- FireBeyond 1y agoHell, they'll even hold a press conference touting (selective data from) telemetry to say "The vehicle had been warning him to pay attention prior to the accident!" And then four months later when the actual accident investigation comes out, you'll find out that yes, it had. Once. Eighteen minutes prior to the accident. And then to add insult to that, for a very long time, Tesla would fight you for access to your own telemetry data if, for example, it was needed in a lawsuit against someone else for an accident.
- kjkjadksj 1y agoThat is for the lawyers not indicative of capability
- JumpCrisscross 1y agoI’ve taken a nap in my Waymos. One can’t in a Tesla. That is a difference in capability.
- rurp 1y agoThe company selling the car is adamant that none of their cars are fully autonomous in every single legal or regularity context. Any accident caused by the car is 100% the fault of the driver. But the company markets their cars as fully autonomous. That's pretty much the definition of pretending to be autonomous.