4 ms·

Is there any way to block this location data sharing? What about other carriers? I always think about denying apps access to this stuff but a carrier tracking m

Is there any way to block this location data sharing? What about other carriers? I always think about denying apps access to this stuff but a carrier tracking me is insane and scary. The linked article makes it seem like ATT and Verizon also do this.

TimorousBestie 1y ago
Probably not. The infrastructure has to know where your cell phone is in order to communicate with it. Last I checked, the large carriers in the states hoard this information for years.
- jacquesm 1y ago
  This is not quite true. They have to know roughly where your cell phone is but, helpfully, your cellphone starts the process as soon as you start it up and then it is a courtesy to you that the unit closest to you will handle your call(s) and other traffic because that will save you battery and reduces the amount of power your phone will use which in turn will allow others relatively nearby to use the same slice of the spectrum while you are transmitting. Phased arrays on the mast make this even more precise and further conserve power. But that really is a courtesy: it would all work without that luxury but less efficient and your phone's battery would be empty faster. The part that really is optional is where the carrier then stores and even sells your location. They are mandated by law with respect to the first and they abuse the technical capabilities of the system for the second. And even if it isn't very precise for a single measurement it is in fact quite precise after you haven't moved for a while.
  - Spooky23 1y ago
    They know alot. The data is used to estimate average speeds on roads with alot of throughput and can profile location between known sites. (Work/school/etc) You can buy data about the incomes of people driving past a given intersection. That's why you'll see a Starbucks sometimes on a trunk road in a sketch area.
    - jacquesm 1y ago
      Yes, the aggregate value of this data is substantial. And of course nobody in the possession of something valuable, especially not a telco, ever thought 'am I acting in the interest of the data subjects by selling this data?'.
codedokode 1y ago
Airplane mode.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
tantalor 1y ago
Yeah it is quite easy, just take out your phone and follow these steps, 1. Go outside 2. Break the phone in half 3. Toss it in the nearest garbage can 4. Walk away
- nullc 1y ago
  > 4. Walk away Run. Half phone will burst into flames.
  - AtheistOfFail 1y ago
    Samsung. Remember we made an exploding phone?
sugarpimpdorsey 1y ago
Yes you could go full rms and not own one* and ask someone else to borrow theirs. * does anyone know if this is still true?
- lazide 1y ago
  Even better - randomly pickpocket someone else’s phone, use it once, then toss it /s
- RajT88 1y ago
  Asking to borrow someone's phone is a common theft tactic. I wouldn't do it, for fear of someone thinking you're up to no good. Burners / prepaid SIM's are still a thing.
  - throwaway81523 1y ago
    I doubt RMS frequently borrows phones from strangers. It's usually from people who know him and are with him. They already have the phone, so RMS's using it doesn't increase the tracking it's already doing, and in some ways it pollutes the tracking data, also good. I once suggested some alternatives to him like Meshtastic, but he travels too much to random places for that to be practical.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
whatamidoingyo 1y ago
You can purchase a Faraday cage for your phone. Or you can make one.
- natas 1y ago
  all cars should have one
  - thfuran 1y ago
    They’re too busy spying themselves.
  - egberts1 1y ago
    50-ohm resistor end-cap connector to antenna of your car GPS should suffice.
adrr 1y ago
Carrier tracking isn't precise as GPS tracking via the phone. Its frequently a mile or more off. Banks were using it in lieu of a travel notice to see if the card swipe and phone were in the same city. Thats my experience with it. They moved away though and now try to ping the app(silent push) to get an IP or location data since buying location data from carriers is expensive.
- Lammy 1y ago
  > Carrier tracking isn't precise as GPS tracking via the phone. Not any more. 5G changes this now that the location spying is baked into the cell tech itself. The base stations are literally steering the beam to follow you in order to achieve such high bandwidth. See “5G NR Positioning Enhancements in 3GPP Release-18” (2024): https://arxiv.org/html/2401.17594v1 https://arxiv.org/html/2401.17594v1 “New radio (NR) positioning in the Third Generation Partnership Project (3GPP) Release 18 (Rel-18) enables 5G-advanced networks to achieve ultra-high accuracy positioning without dependence on global navigation satellite systems (GNSS)” “Release 18 (Rel-18) NR pushes the boundaries even further, unlocking the potential for applications in 5G-Advanced networks that demand ultra-high positioning accuracy – down to centimeter-level (cm-level)” (emphasis mine)
  - hocuspocus 1y ago
    The overwhelming majority of 5G cells don't do any of that. Even though modern cellular deployments have increased the positioning accuracy a bit, best in class network telemetry (either embedded or third party probes) that estimate positions from timing advances is still pretty crap in real life. There are other tricks you can use such as "minimization of drive tests" that get the A-GPS position (which again, is not always that accurate, because it's cached), but this kind of telemetry is enabled only on small samples, because it has a non-trivial impact on the network performance. Then I guess you could use straight up illegal ways such as abusing the E911 / E112 location tracking.
echelon_musk 1y ago
For a long time I've wanted something like Remote Desktop for my phone. With the idea being that I use a second phone to connect to my main phone over the internet. This lets the phone number you actually have associated with you stay in the same fixed geographical location. E.g. all calls are initiated by the primary phone and tunnelled over the internet to the disposable phone.
- Lammy 1y ago
  Get a Direct Inward Dialing (DID) number and a VoIP host that speaks SIP. Dunno about iOS, but Android has had native SIP support built in since Android 2.3 Gingerbread.
  - echelon_musk 1y ago
    That would work for calls, thanks. But for apps like WhatsApp, Signal, SMS, iMessage etc. they would all need their own workarounds.
    - westmeal 1y ago
      Could use a VNC of sorts. Maybe a Miracast receiver that dumps the screen buffer to your own web service that just spits out the frames over UDP
    - Nextgrid 1y ago
      But those apps don't actually care about the phone number beyond the initial registration? Once registered, they work entirely via IP and don't know nor care which SIM is in your phone. You will however have a problem with registering on those with a VoIP number - those ranges are generally blacklisted due to bad actors misusing those numbers for nefarious purposes.
  - xethos 1y ago
    Google actually ripped VoIP support out of the native dialer several years ago https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-killing-native-sip-calling/ https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-killing-native-sip...
ethan_smith 1y ago
Beyond carrier opt-outs (which often have loopholes), you can physically block tracking by toggling airplane mode with WiFi enabled when possible, or using a signal-blocking Faraday bag for your phone during sensitive travel.
- chii 1y ago
  > during sensitive travel. if your location data is continuous, but happens to "switch off" when you're doing something sensitive, then it's like a blaring alarm that this is the period of time that is "sus". It gives any sort of LEA/feds a time period to investigate, and might even be the evidence they need for a search warrant. Therefore, you should not just hide your signal only when you are doing sensitive things. You should periodically hide it going to groceries, going to the shops etc. You might want to do it regularly, as part of your daily life. Camouflage only works if it cannot be used to tell apart your activities.
  - kotaKat 1y ago
    Case in point... protest tracking, Brian Kohberger, hell, a local case used location data as an additional smoking gun on a murder, even getting past GPS "accuracy" barriers and claims to get a conviction.

TimorousBestie 1y ago

Probably not. The infrastructure has to know where your cell phone is in order to communicate with it. Last I checked, the large carriers in the states hoard this information for years.

jacquesm 1y ago
This is not quite true. They have to know roughly where your cell phone is but, helpfully, your cellphone starts the process as soon as you start it up and then it is a courtesy to you that the unit closest to you will handle your call(s) and other traffic because that will save you battery and reduces the amount of power your phone will use which in turn will allow others relatively nearby to use the same slice of the spectrum while you are transmitting. Phased arrays on the mast make this even more precise and further conserve power. But that really is a courtesy: it would all work without that luxury but less efficient and your phone's battery would be empty faster. The part that really is optional is where the carrier then stores and even sells your location. They are mandated by law with respect to the first and they abuse the technical capabilities of the system for the second. And even if it isn't very precise for a single measurement it is in fact quite precise after you haven't moved for a while.
- Spooky23 1y ago
  They know alot. The data is used to estimate average speeds on roads with alot of throughput and can profile location between known sites. (Work/school/etc) You can buy data about the incomes of people driving past a given intersection. That's why you'll see a Starbucks sometimes on a trunk road in a sketch area.
  - jacquesm 1y ago
    Yes, the aggregate value of this data is substantial. And of course nobody in the possession of something valuable, especially not a telco, ever thought 'am I acting in the interest of the data subjects by selling this data?'.

codedokode 1y ago

Airplane mode.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

tantalor 1y ago

Yeah it is quite easy, just take out your phone and follow these steps, 1. Go outside 2. Break the phone in half 3. Toss it in the nearest garbage can 4. Walk away

nullc 1y ago
> 4. Walk away Run. Half phone will burst into flames.
- AtheistOfFail 1y ago
  Samsung. Remember we made an exploding phone?

sugarpimpdorsey 1y ago

Yes you could go full rms and not own one* and ask someone else to borrow theirs. * does anyone know if this is still true?

lazide 1y ago
Even better - randomly pickpocket someone else’s phone, use it once, then toss it /s
RajT88 1y ago
Asking to borrow someone's phone is a common theft tactic. I wouldn't do it, for fear of someone thinking you're up to no good. Burners / prepaid SIM's are still a thing.
- throwaway81523 1y ago
  I doubt RMS frequently borrows phones from strangers. It's usually from people who know him and are with him. They already have the phone, so RMS's using it doesn't increase the tracking it's already doing, and in some ways it pollutes the tracking data, also good. I once suggested some alternatives to him like Meshtastic, but he travels too much to random places for that to be practical.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

whatamidoingyo 1y ago

You can purchase a Faraday cage for your phone. Or you can make one.

natas 1y ago
all cars should have one
- thfuran 1y ago
  They’re too busy spying themselves.
- egberts1 1y ago
  50-ohm resistor end-cap connector to antenna of your car GPS should suffice.

adrr 1y ago

Carrier tracking isn't precise as GPS tracking via the phone. Its frequently a mile or more off. Banks were using it in lieu of a travel notice to see if the card swipe and phone were in the same city. Thats my experience with it. They moved away though and now try to ping the app(silent push) to get an IP or location data since buying location data from carriers is expensive.

Lammy 1y ago
> Carrier tracking isn't precise as GPS tracking via the phone. Not any more. 5G changes this now that the location spying is baked into the cell tech itself. The base stations are literally steering the beam to follow you in order to achieve such high bandwidth. See “5G NR Positioning Enhancements in 3GPP Release-18” (2024): https://arxiv.org/html/2401.17594v1 https://arxiv.org/html/2401.17594v1 “New radio (NR) positioning in the Third Generation Partnership Project (3GPP) Release 18 (Rel-18) enables 5G-advanced networks to achieve ultra-high accuracy positioning without dependence on global navigation satellite systems (GNSS)” “Release 18 (Rel-18) NR pushes the boundaries even further, unlocking the potential for applications in 5G-Advanced networks that demand ultra-high positioning accuracy – down to centimeter-level (cm-level)” (emphasis mine)
- hocuspocus 1y ago
  The overwhelming majority of 5G cells don't do any of that. Even though modern cellular deployments have increased the positioning accuracy a bit, best in class network telemetry (either embedded or third party probes) that estimate positions from timing advances is still pretty crap in real life. There are other tricks you can use such as "minimization of drive tests" that get the A-GPS position (which again, is not always that accurate, because it's cached), but this kind of telemetry is enabled only on small samples, because it has a non-trivial impact on the network performance. Then I guess you could use straight up illegal ways such as abusing the E911 / E112 location tracking.

echelon_musk 1y ago

For a long time I've wanted something like Remote Desktop for my phone. With the idea being that I use a second phone to connect to my main phone over the internet. This lets the phone number you actually have associated with you stay in the same fixed geographical location. E.g. all calls are initiated by the primary phone and tunnelled over the internet to the disposable phone.

Lammy 1y ago
Get a Direct Inward Dialing (DID) number and a VoIP host that speaks SIP. Dunno about iOS, but Android has had native SIP support built in since Android 2.3 Gingerbread.
- echelon_musk 1y ago
  That would work for calls, thanks. But for apps like WhatsApp, Signal, SMS, iMessage etc. they would all need their own workarounds.
  - westmeal 1y ago
    Could use a VNC of sorts. Maybe a Miracast receiver that dumps the screen buffer to your own web service that just spits out the frames over UDP
  - Nextgrid 1y ago
    But those apps don't actually care about the phone number beyond the initial registration? Once registered, they work entirely via IP and don't know nor care which SIM is in your phone. You will however have a problem with registering on those with a VoIP number - those ranges are generally blacklisted due to bad actors misusing those numbers for nefarious purposes.
- xethos 1y ago
  Google actually ripped VoIP support out of the native dialer several years ago https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-killing-native-sip-calling/ https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-killing-native-sip...

ethan_smith 1y ago

Beyond carrier opt-outs (which often have loopholes), you can physically block tracking by toggling airplane mode with WiFi enabled when possible, or using a signal-blocking Faraday bag for your phone during sensitive travel.

chii 1y ago
> during sensitive travel. if your location data is continuous, but happens to "switch off" when you're doing something sensitive, then it's like a blaring alarm that this is the period of time that is "sus". It gives any sort of LEA/feds a time period to investigate, and might even be the evidence they need for a search warrant. Therefore, you should not just hide your signal only when you are doing sensitive things. You should periodically hide it going to groceries, going to the shops etc. You might want to do it regularly, as part of your daily life. Camouflage only works if it cannot be used to tell apart your activities.
- kotaKat 1y ago
  Case in point... protest tracking, Brian Kohberger, hell, a local case used location data as an additional smoking gun on a murder, even getting past GPS "accuracy" barriers and claims to get a conviction.