8 ms·

So why do so many European government websites have cookie banners? See, for instance: https://www.info.gouv.fr https://www.info.gouv.fr

troupo 1y ago
Because you could sit down and read the GDPR in an afternoon, and actually understand it yourself. After all, you've had 9 years to do that.
- wolvesechoes 1y ago
  You expect too much.
- eviks 1y ago
  I challenge you to demonstrate the supposed understanding you have that would explain why that website is following "industry‘s shitty solution to forcing users to consent with tracking." (and not even each industry website does such stupid full page banners) instead of using non-shitty solutions.
  - troupo 1y ago
    It's a good question, which has a very obvious answer: even government websites are built by clueless people and/or marketers and/or using shitty tech. Which you can see when you click on "personalise" in the cookie banner. That's why GitHub reneged on their "no cookies policy" for example: they got taken over by shitty people with shitty tech: https://github.blog/news-insights/company-news/no-cookie-for-you/ https://github.blog/news-insights/company-news/no-cookie-for...
    - eviks 1y ago
      You've failed the challenge because your answer doesn't depend on wasting your afternoon to read and understand GDPR
- SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
  You can, and I have, and it clearly requires almost any modern website to have a cookie banner. Which shouldn't be too surprising, when you go to gdpr.eu and see the cookie banner at the bottom. It's possible in principle to jump through the crazy hoops required to avoid it, but the only sites I've ever seen do so are national Data Protection Authorities.
  - account42 1y ago
    Only if you define "almost any modern website" as one that does precisely what the GDPR set out to deal with. If tracking wasn't as widespread we wouldn't have needed the regulation in the first place.
    - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
      Tracking vs. non-tracking is not a distinction that the EU cookie rules recognize. A privacy respecting first-party analytics cookie, serving no other purpose than to let the website operator count how many distinct users visit a particular page, is still a not-strictly-necessary cookie which your users must provide informed consent for.
      - account42 1y ago
        > A privacy respecting first-party analytics cookie, serving no other purpose than to let the website operator count how many distinct users visit a particular page, is still a not-strictly-necessary cookie which your users must provide informed consent for. Yes because that's tracking.
  - hdgvhicv 1y ago
    I see no cookie banners on this site.
    - eviks 1y ago
      Ok, but others do.
- pembrook 1y ago
  Obviously you haven’t either, because GDPR says nothing about cookie banners. Cookie banners are the result of a different piece of legislation, the ePrivacy directive. Have you read that one too? What about all the latest judicial actions regarding data transfers to 3rd parties that have gone back and forth due to ongoing legal cases? Legislation is totally irrelevant without the context of the latest judicial precedent. Did you read the entirely of the schrems decisions and the analysis of what that means for using or offering any technology services? Having read GDPR is irrelevant when one day Google analytics is okay to use and the next day it's not due to one court case. What about the latest data transfer agreements between the US and EU that invalidated the use of standard contractual clauses, and the above prior Schrems decisions? You've had years at this point. Do you think it’s good to insult and assume bad faith from your fellow internet commenters about a topic you actually don't understand yourself?
  - troupo 1y ago
    > Cookie banners are the result of a different piece of legislation, the ePrivacy directive. Have you read that one too? The huge obnoxious cookie banners that everyone pretends are due to GDPR are neither due to GDPR nor due to ePrivacy. It's the industry's unashamed deliberate sabotage of GDPR
    - pembrook 1y ago
      Oh definitely, the decentralized private market absolutely got together in secret to devise a plan to undermine the beautifully designed EU legislation by using cookie banners. My flower shop down the street that has a cookie banner on their Wix website is secretly trying to undermine the government. It couldn't possibly be that the largely unaccountable central planners in the EU's technocratic maze of a government designed a dumb piece of legislation.
      - troupo 1y ago
        > got together in secret Who said anything about secret? They are doing it all in the open. > My flower shop down the street that has a cookie banner on their Wix website is secretly trying to undermine the government. Oh, your flower shop only sells you flowers. The 1421 "partners" on their website however are really glad that they tricked clueless people to include their "GDPR-compliant privacy-preserving" solutions. > It couldn't possibly be that the largely unaccountable central planners in the EU's technocratic maze of a government got something wrong. GDPR doesn't require huge obnoxious banners. ePrivacy doesn't require huge obnoxious banners. Industry: let's create huge obnoxious banners with all sorts of dark patterns to trick people into "consent" through innocent inconspicuous tool vendors like Interactive Advertising Bureau, and blame GDPR for requiring them. Poor, poor sweet innocent companies. It's GDPR making them collect and keep your precise geolocation for 12 years across thousands of partners who care about your privacy: https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1817122117093056541 https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1817122117093056541

troupo 1y ago

Because you could sit down and read the GDPR in an afternoon, and actually understand it yourself. After all, you've had 9 years to do that.

wolvesechoes 1y ago
You expect too much.
eviks 1y ago
I challenge you to demonstrate the supposed understanding you have that would explain why that website is following "industry‘s shitty solution to forcing users to consent with tracking." (and not even each industry website does such stupid full page banners) instead of using non-shitty solutions.
- troupo 1y ago
  It's a good question, which has a very obvious answer: even government websites are built by clueless people and/or marketers and/or using shitty tech. Which you can see when you click on "personalise" in the cookie banner. That's why GitHub reneged on their "no cookies policy" for example: they got taken over by shitty people with shitty tech: https://github.blog/news-insights/company-news/no-cookie-for-you/ https://github.blog/news-insights/company-news/no-cookie-for...
  - eviks 1y ago
    You've failed the challenge because your answer doesn't depend on wasting your afternoon to read and understand GDPR
SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
You can, and I have, and it clearly requires almost any modern website to have a cookie banner. Which shouldn't be too surprising, when you go to gdpr.eu and see the cookie banner at the bottom. It's possible in principle to jump through the crazy hoops required to avoid it, but the only sites I've ever seen do so are national Data Protection Authorities.
- account42 1y ago
  Only if you define "almost any modern website" as one that does precisely what the GDPR set out to deal with. If tracking wasn't as widespread we wouldn't have needed the regulation in the first place.
  - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
    Tracking vs. non-tracking is not a distinction that the EU cookie rules recognize. A privacy respecting first-party analytics cookie, serving no other purpose than to let the website operator count how many distinct users visit a particular page, is still a not-strictly-necessary cookie which your users must provide informed consent for.
    - account42 1y ago
      > A privacy respecting first-party analytics cookie, serving no other purpose than to let the website operator count how many distinct users visit a particular page, is still a not-strictly-necessary cookie which your users must provide informed consent for. Yes because that's tracking.
- hdgvhicv 1y ago
  I see no cookie banners on this site.
  - eviks 1y ago
    Ok, but others do.
pembrook 1y ago
Obviously you haven’t either, because GDPR says nothing about cookie banners. Cookie banners are the result of a different piece of legislation, the ePrivacy directive. Have you read that one too? What about all the latest judicial actions regarding data transfers to 3rd parties that have gone back and forth due to ongoing legal cases? Legislation is totally irrelevant without the context of the latest judicial precedent. Did you read the entirely of the schrems decisions and the analysis of what that means for using or offering any technology services? Having read GDPR is irrelevant when one day Google analytics is okay to use and the next day it's not due to one court case. What about the latest data transfer agreements between the US and EU that invalidated the use of standard contractual clauses, and the above prior Schrems decisions? You've had years at this point. Do you think it’s good to insult and assume bad faith from your fellow internet commenters about a topic you actually don't understand yourself?
- troupo 1y ago
  > Cookie banners are the result of a different piece of legislation, the ePrivacy directive. Have you read that one too? The huge obnoxious cookie banners that everyone pretends are due to GDPR are neither due to GDPR nor due to ePrivacy. It's the industry's unashamed deliberate sabotage of GDPR
  - pembrook 1y ago
    Oh definitely, the decentralized private market absolutely got together in secret to devise a plan to undermine the beautifully designed EU legislation by using cookie banners. My flower shop down the street that has a cookie banner on their Wix website is secretly trying to undermine the government. It couldn't possibly be that the largely unaccountable central planners in the EU's technocratic maze of a government designed a dumb piece of legislation.
    - troupo 1y ago
      > got together in secret Who said anything about secret? They are doing it all in the open. > My flower shop down the street that has a cookie banner on their Wix website is secretly trying to undermine the government. Oh, your flower shop only sells you flowers. The 1421 "partners" on their website however are really glad that they tricked clueless people to include their "GDPR-compliant privacy-preserving" solutions. > It couldn't possibly be that the largely unaccountable central planners in the EU's technocratic maze of a government got something wrong. GDPR doesn't require huge obnoxious banners. ePrivacy doesn't require huge obnoxious banners. Industry: let's create huge obnoxious banners with all sorts of dark patterns to trick people into "consent" through innocent inconspicuous tool vendors like Interactive Advertising Bureau, and blame GDPR for requiring them. Poor, poor sweet innocent companies. It's GDPR making them collect and keep your precise geolocation for 12 years across thousands of partners who care about your privacy: https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1817122117093056541 https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1817122117093056541