4 ms·

I agree 100% and when I encounter people that don't believe this theory I point out that, once upon a time, Southwest Airlines used to be able to turn an entire

I agree 100% and when I encounter people that don't believe this theory I point out that, once upon a time, Southwest Airlines used to be able to turn an entire 737 in 10 minutes. https://southwest50.com/our-stories/a-turning-point-the-birth-of-the-10-minute-turn/ https://southwest50.com/our-stories/a-turning-point-the-birt...

labcomputer 1y ago
I agree, but it's worth noting that those 10 minute turns were probably -100 or -200 series aircraft with a capacity of about 100 passengers, while a modern Max-8/9/10 aircraft holds about 200 (who still board through a single door). Still, 20 minute turns would be industry-leading.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
  Is it possible this has anything to do with cheaper tickets and more amateur flyers? There are always some families new to flying that seem to gum up the works.
  - afavour 1y ago
    If that were the case I don’t think Southwest would ever have been record holders in turnaround time. Their tickets have historically been cheaper than many competitors.
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
      The one advantage SW has is the open seating. People will naturally disperse along the length of the plane so as to avoid the middle seat. This could prevent many traffic jams that otherwise slow boarding with the rest of the passengers stuck behind a slow loader. Not sure if it would actually make an impact -you will still get blockages. Would need a queuing theorist to comment.
      - happycube 1y ago
        ... and because of activist investors, they're throwing that away.
        bigstrat2003 1y ago
        It's insane how Southwest is willing to throw away a unique competitive edge that nobody else has, and their loyal customer base with it. It's also insane that the activist investors pressured them to do something that stupid. In one stroke Southwest went from being an airline worth going out of your way to fly, to just another airline which has to compete on price alone. Absolutely boneheaded move.
        sokoloff 1y ago
        The number of SWA customers who needed wheelchairs to board (earlier than able-bodied pax) and were healed enough mid-flight to be able to walk off at the destination was astounding. It’ll be sad to lose all those miraculous recoveries.
        hakfoo 1y ago
        I intentionally chose Southwest for my last flight because the old policies -- included bags and free-form seating-- made me feel better about the experience. I didn't need the free checked bags, but I appreciated not being pressured into guessing exactly how many pairs of pants I'm going to need for a trip I booked 3 months in advance. I know I'm not the industry's ideal customer-- taking solo tourist-class flights booked long in advance, once or twice a year, and not churning frequent flyer points, but that doesn't mean I want to be treated with contempt. To be honest, that feels like an entire direction the travel sector needs to focus on. I'm paying hundreds of dollars to sit in your lowest-bid Metal Death Tube or stay in your Totally Not A Bedbug Sanctuary, stop treating me like a transient who walked into a Rodeo Drive boutique because I don't have Triple Ytterbium Status.
      - ryandrake 1y ago
        We did SW once and never again. Some things we learned the hard way having never flown SW before: You have to pay extra if you don't want to be dead last on the plane, and evidently, everyone pays extra, because we were dead last. Not sitting together for sure (you have to pay extra for that too). So we finally get on the plane, and all the carry on space is already used up. We ask the flight attendant "so what now" and she just shrugs like it's my problem. I tell her OK we'll just leave the bags in the aisle then, or will you gate check them for us? Finally, she huffs and proceeds to open every overhead bin one by one until we find two of them with small backpacks that we have to yank down and convince the owners to stick under the seat in front of them. All the while the rest of the passengers are looking at us like we're preventing their ambulance from getting to the hospital. No thanks. I'll take a slower boarding with a traditional airline that doesn't make their passengers feel like a burden.
pimlottc 1y ago
For those not familiar with Southwest Airlines, they famously offered two free checked bags for years after all other major carriers started charging for them. Sadly, they ended that practice earlier this year.
- mushroomba 1y ago
  Southwest Airlines was purchased by an activist investor. https://www.wfaa.com/article/money/business/southwest-airlines-shakeup-elliott-investment-management-activist-investor-who-called-for-changes-at-airline/287-13f3dd5b-0fdd-41b8-89b0-440db52d4bf2 https://www.wfaa.com/article/money/business/southwest-airlin...
  - mikestew 1y ago
    So SWA will no longer have any features that distinguish them from other airlines? Guess my tax dollars will be bailing them out in a few years.
gonzalohm 1y ago
They also didn't have assigned seats and you could seat wherever you liked, right?

labcomputer 1y ago

I agree, but it's worth noting that those 10 minute turns were probably -100 or -200 series aircraft with a capacity of about 100 passengers, while a modern Max-8/9/10 aircraft holds about 200 (who still board through a single door). Still, 20 minute turns would be industry-leading.

0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
Is it possible this has anything to do with cheaper tickets and more amateur flyers? There are always some families new to flying that seem to gum up the works.
- afavour 1y ago
  If that were the case I don’t think Southwest would ever have been record holders in turnaround time. Their tickets have historically been cheaper than many competitors.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
    The one advantage SW has is the open seating. People will naturally disperse along the length of the plane so as to avoid the middle seat. This could prevent many traffic jams that otherwise slow boarding with the rest of the passengers stuck behind a slow loader. Not sure if it would actually make an impact -you will still get blockages. Would need a queuing theorist to comment.
    - happycube 1y ago
      ... and because of activist investors, they're throwing that away.
      - bigstrat2003 1y ago
        It's insane how Southwest is willing to throw away a unique competitive edge that nobody else has, and their loyal customer base with it. It's also insane that the activist investors pressured them to do something that stupid. In one stroke Southwest went from being an airline worth going out of your way to fly, to just another airline which has to compete on price alone. Absolutely boneheaded move.
        sokoloff 1y ago
        The number of SWA customers who needed wheelchairs to board (earlier than able-bodied pax) and were healed enough mid-flight to be able to walk off at the destination was astounding. It’ll be sad to lose all those miraculous recoveries.
        hakfoo 1y ago
        I intentionally chose Southwest for my last flight because the old policies -- included bags and free-form seating-- made me feel better about the experience. I didn't need the free checked bags, but I appreciated not being pressured into guessing exactly how many pairs of pants I'm going to need for a trip I booked 3 months in advance. I know I'm not the industry's ideal customer-- taking solo tourist-class flights booked long in advance, once or twice a year, and not churning frequent flyer points, but that doesn't mean I want to be treated with contempt. To be honest, that feels like an entire direction the travel sector needs to focus on. I'm paying hundreds of dollars to sit in your lowest-bid Metal Death Tube or stay in your Totally Not A Bedbug Sanctuary, stop treating me like a transient who walked into a Rodeo Drive boutique because I don't have Triple Ytterbium Status.
    - ryandrake 1y ago
      We did SW once and never again. Some things we learned the hard way having never flown SW before: You have to pay extra if you don't want to be dead last on the plane, and evidently, everyone pays extra, because we were dead last. Not sitting together for sure (you have to pay extra for that too). So we finally get on the plane, and all the carry on space is already used up. We ask the flight attendant "so what now" and she just shrugs like it's my problem. I tell her OK we'll just leave the bags in the aisle then, or will you gate check them for us? Finally, she huffs and proceeds to open every overhead bin one by one until we find two of them with small backpacks that we have to yank down and convince the owners to stick under the seat in front of them. All the while the rest of the passengers are looking at us like we're preventing their ambulance from getting to the hospital. No thanks. I'll take a slower boarding with a traditional airline that doesn't make their passengers feel like a burden.

pimlottc 1y ago

For those not familiar with Southwest Airlines, they famously offered two free checked bags for years after all other major carriers started charging for them. Sadly, they ended that practice earlier this year.

mushroomba 1y ago
Southwest Airlines was purchased by an activist investor. https://www.wfaa.com/article/money/business/southwest-airlines-shakeup-elliott-investment-management-activist-investor-who-called-for-changes-at-airline/287-13f3dd5b-0fdd-41b8-89b0-440db52d4bf2 https://www.wfaa.com/article/money/business/southwest-airlin...
- mikestew 1y ago
  So SWA will no longer have any features that distinguish them from other airlines? Guess my tax dollars will be bailing them out in a few years.

gonzalohm 1y ago

They also didn't have assigned seats and you could seat wherever you liked, right?