8 ms·

Ashet Home Computer

313 points by todsacerdoti 1y ago

tuckerman 1y ago
He's still too young for something like this but I've been searching for something to use when we more properly introduce my son to computers. Using modern components to make something useful that still exposes the electronics side, encourages tinkering and exploration over media consumption, etc and it seems like a project like this could fit the bill nicely!
- ikskuh 1y ago
  Creator here! That sounds exactly what i had in mind, and i really wanna do the same when my boy is old enough for computers. It's a teaching tool and a fun toy to tinker with
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  No doubt you've already looked into Ben Eater's various offerings (?).
  - tuckerman 1y ago
    I came across them (and they seem very cool!) but my working theory is that, in addition to more electronics heavy projects like those, I also want something that can fill the role of the apple ii plus that was the "family computer" when I was a kid without going straight to giving him access to a modern desktop/computer which feel so hermetic. I'm somehow very confident in this while also being sure that people probably thought very similar things about home radios destroying the youth in the 1920s :D
    - JKCalhoun 1y ago
      Look into the RC2014 project then perhaps (https://rc2014.co.uk https://rc2014.co.uk). It's been around for ten years of so — has quite an ecosystem already.
- uticus 1y ago
  https://www.nand2tetris.org/ https://www.nand2tetris.org/
- poulpy123 1y ago
  I think machines are more for adults and passionate teenagers than for children. But you can also look at the tulip creative computer that is more geared towards creative computing (especially music)
JKCalhoun 1y ago
I like that it is using a backplane architecture. The OS made me wonder how far someone could get trying to create a GUI for the 6502. I suppose the Apple II (GS?) headed there before the Mac fully took the reins and the Apple II was left out to pasture.
- pinewurst 1y ago
  https://www.a2desktop.com https://www.a2desktop.com http://toastytech.com/guis/a2geos.html http://toastytech.com/guis/a2geos.html
- alexisread 1y ago
  Well the most well known one is Geos for the C64 https://youtu.be/_4nthOx8sA4?si=AiK9bRxRQwV3MB0f https://youtu.be/_4nthOx8sA4?si=AiK9bRxRQwV3MB0f There's also this Atari homebrew https://youtu.be/T14dL9MeMHE?si=cGtsZGWILYi4jcql https://youtu.be/T14dL9MeMHE?si=cGtsZGWILYi4jcql And yes the IIGS had one https://youtu.be/YvVFTpukAp0?si=UtvV3N_pKhxU-Tyb https://youtu.be/YvVFTpukAp0?si=UtvV3N_pKhxU-Tyb
  - aidenn0 1y ago
    One comment on the IIgs vs the C64; the IIgs had a 16-bit CPU and tons of RAM, so GS/OS is not necessarily representative of what is possible on a 6502.
- BirAdam 1y ago
  Yeah, the backplane immediately gives me S100 vibes.
uticus 1y ago
> an expandable and hackable computer in the spirit of the 80's home computers cool! > Dual Core CPU hm that will make for some interesting first steps in learning
- ZiiS 1y ago
  Tbh having a seperate io core can simplify scheduling.
  - sounds 1y ago
    Agree. Most computers that are a joy to learn have a handful of controllers that operate in parallel. That is, multiple cores The Apple II had a really cool disk drive because of how it did what it did with so little hardware. By relying on the single CPU for everything it was elegant, advanced, interesting... but perhaps not so easy to program. https://www.bigmessowires.com/2021/11/12/the-amazing-disk-ii-controller-card/ https://www.bigmessowires.com/2021/11/12/the-amazing-disk-ii...
- lysace 1y ago
  The Parallax P8X32A Propeller (2006) did multi-core processing in a very beginner friendly way. It can be done - if you take a holistic approach to hardware + runtime + development environment. The Propeller probably failed because of the custom language, the custom assembly syntax, the custom ISA, the custom IDE font (!) etc. It was a very neat system though.
  - duskwuff 1y ago
    The Propeller was a commercial failure because it was a one-off part, from a small company, with very little software ecosystem surrounding it, a poor performance to price ratio, and no migration path if you needed more capabilities than it could provide.
    - lysace 1y ago
      Meh. Similar pricing and availability compared to its primary competitor at the time: Arduino. It was just too unusual in too many ways. In one way it’s a bit like the Amiga vs the 8088/8086 PC.
mmackh 1y ago
There’s something to be said about an independent system you can understand and expand. What I think will be next frontier in home computing is truly understanding and owning the systems that run a smart home and that comes with understanding the environment (sensor data, presence detection, etc.). We live in an interesting time where embedded development has become so accessible and powerful that we can interface with multiple wireless protocols and state of the art sensors with not a lot of capital investment. If we think what can come beyond screens and imagine more ambient computing systems - maybe we’ll see new and interesting innovations
- BizarroLand 1y ago
  I like the eurorack-esque modular design. Not everyone will want the same base layout, so making it swapable like that is a nice touch.
  - aa-jv 1y ago
    Actually this thing would be a lot sexier if it were in fact complying with Eurorack standards, imho. There's no better environment to be dropping an alternative computing platform than directly into the rack alongside the rest of the interesting modules of the 21st century ..
    - ikskuh 1y ago
      Creator here! I did consider Euro Rack, 19" racks, MiniATX and other case standards. But with any of these options, i wouldnt be able to keep the price low. The case including all parts and assembly cost is roughly at 20€ per device. It's an off-the-shelf part, with only lasercutted parts in two materials, and a single custom component which is yet to be determined what's the cheapest manufacturing option. I wanted to keep the price low and any of the options above would increase the price by at least 40€, which is a subatantial part of the components
      - aa-jv 1y ago
        I can buy a small Eurorack module box for 25eu, including power supply and handles. So .. I dunno .. just seems like with a bit of extra design work, Ashet could become Eurorack compatible at least, for those of us who want to hack it into that environment. But anyway, I see you are quite busy with other issues, I'll pipe down about it.
joshu 1y ago
i've been thinking about how to build a retro-style computer without any of the engineering compromises that made old machines so weird. lots of ideas, no progress. perhaps some sort of small riscv machine and a separate processor to manage the system (esp32) remotely, so you can always modify the filesystem or whatever from a bigger machine?
nancyminusone 1y ago
Not ragging on the author, but I'm always confused whenever I see a "make your own computer" project like this that doesn't start with hardware first. I mean, there's already seems to be a quite advanced OS for it and some detailed docs, but no physical "computer" to speak of, just a lot of mockups. Why a hardware project at that point and not a virtual machine like pico-8? I'm just saying, its kinda the opposite approach a hardware person would take.
- wizzwizz4 1y ago
  https://ashet.computer/hardware/ https://ashet.computer/hardware/ looks like hardware to me. While not all the manufacturing considerations have been addressed, there's a "functional cable clutter prototype", and you can build your own Ashet-compatible.
  - myself248 1y ago
    That all looks like renders and diagrams to me. Dime a dozen, as has been said. https://ashet.computer/gallery/img/ashet-hc-devsetup-02.jpg https://ashet.computer/gallery/img/ashet-hc-devsetup-02.jpg looks like hardware!
- ikskuh 1y ago
  Creator here. Please take a look at the gallery, where there are photos of the actual electronics setups! Also don't the mechanical mockups count as hardware? A pile of jumperwires, breadboards and devices don't make a good hero image, but physical hardware mockups do. Also the electronics design in its current form is actually iteration 5 of the system, while the OS development started with iteration 2. The OS does boot on the electrical prototype
  - nancyminusone 1y ago
    >A pile of jumperwires, breadboards and devices don't make a good hero image I strongly disagree! Hardware people love seeing that sort of thing - the more guts you show, the better. It means you've gotten something to work and probably know what you're talking about. Take pride in what you have accomplished so far! Ideas and concepts are a dime a dozen; working hardware is a worthy milestone.
turnsout 1y ago
I love the general backplane architecture, which gives it a look similar to Apple's canceled Jonathan project [0] [0]: https://512pixels.net/2024/03/apple-jonathan-modular-concept/
smm11 1y ago
Got an Amiga and Trumpcard you can have cheap.
jameszog 1y ago
We have a stack of obsolete machines from e waste that we use for kids to build their own. Free and reusing dumped gear.
bevr1337 1y ago
> Fully understandable by a single person Riddle me this, Batman. What's the scope of "fully understandable?" How much of this home PC could be reasonably audited by individuals or small teams? I've got no exceptional opsec needs as an individual, but I spend some time wondering the minimum required resources to audit a PC. Looking through the docs I see cases where there are multiple suppliers for a recommended part -- that's very cool! As a "fake programmer" and web jockey, this looks like the right balance of complexity to learn with.
- ilaksh 1y ago
  I don't think it's really a fair claim in an educational context. There are at least two completely modern computers (which I assume means fairly complex) including the Raspberry PI and another one he is using the the bus or something. I just don't think modern CPUs really quite fit the claim of "fully understandable by a single person". I mean maybe technically but that is misleading in an educational context where there are much simpler computers that are definitely fully understandable. Maybe all of the stuff he wraps around the main CPU is understandable though. And the expansion cards are cool.
  - bevr1337 1y ago
    > but that is misleading in an educational context where there are much simpler computers that are definitely fully understandable. Are there any other projects or resources in this space that you'd recommend? A friend and I cut our teeth on those AlphaSmart word processors that ran BASIC. I might could wrap my head around that.
    - vermilingua 1y ago
      Ben Eater’s 6502 series (and whole channel) is the gold standard (imo) for understanding how a computer works in every detail. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLowKtXNTBypFbtuVMUVXNR0z1mu7dp7eH https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLowKtXNTBypFbtuVMUVXNR0z1...
    - BirAdam 1y ago
TheAmazingRace 1y ago
I love this project! Kudos to the author. Some day, whenever I have the money to skunkworks this properly, I've wanted to create something like a modern spiritual successor to the Atari ST with enhanced creature comforts. Something with a CPU based on POWER architecture (like microwatt) with a simplified multicore design (no hyperthreading or weird BIG+little core design - just straightforward homogeneous cores), a simple expansion interface of some kind, and an OS baked into ROM. Then I'd consider it to be built around a long term support model, with one design that can last decades, complete with schematics, chip design reference guide, and an open specification so it can be easily cloned as desired. Especially now that Moore's Law and Dennard Scaling has slowed down considerably, it could be a fun platform to target for education or the demoscene, instead of spec chasing.
eikenberry 1y ago
Their OS is written in Zig! https://github.com/Ashet-Technologies/Ashet-OS Thought it might be of interest to people learning Zig. I bet there are some interesting examples in there.
- anitil 1y ago
  I've been following Andrew Kelley's writing and zig is probably next on the list for me (previously would have been rust). The story from C to Zig and the ease of cross compilation makes it really tempting. I haven't looked in to the comptime capabilities much but it looks like it could help with some of the embedded work I do
- rollcat 1y ago
  The OS looks highly opinionated and I respect that. Better to have a single overarching vision than try to do too many things poorly. However I will question some design choices! - 32-bit only: the writing is on the wall, many vendors (HW&SW) are slowly moving to kill it off. I guess it's fine, but IMHO each ISA (regardless of pointer width) should just be considered a different ISA. Portability is good, it ensures your software doesn't hardcode too many assumptions about the platform - and weeds out bugs. Just treat an int like an int, and a pointer like a pointer. Distinct types. - Pure co-op multitasking: it will be completely fine, until you try serious in-system development. Hard reboot any time I make a mistake in a for-loop? Mercy, please :,) Implementing a simple watchdog via a timer interrupt will still keep all of the scheduling logic simple and stupid: it's just another case for a yield call, except now involuntary. The runaway process will simply never see completion, but seeing that it would never yield anyway, I don't see a problem just killing it. And most importantly, the sanity shall be preserved.
  - ikskuh 1y ago
    Creator here! Yes, the OS is highly opinionated, as just making another linux is incredibly boring for me! The 32-bit only constraint is mainly due to my focus on smaller architectures, especially microcontrollers. x86_64 and aarch64 both have much more complex initialiastion schemes, and also use much more complex page table setups. Thus, i wanted to keep that out of the system, considering i'm targeting systems with a tiny fraction of the 4 GiB memory limit. The co-op multitasking is a part of the OS, and the OS doesn't give you preemptive multitasking. I never said i won't implement sanity safeguards! Just killing off a hanging process that doesnt yield for more than 1-5 secs is totally i scope and increases user friendlyness. but considering the system reboots in 1.2 s on target hw right now, the user will maybe just have hit reset by then :D
raphlinus 1y ago
Along similar lines but physically much smaller, there are currently about 3 or 4 boards[1] that have RP2350, DVI, USB host, and SD card, ranging in cost from about $15 to $40. A particular sweet spot is emulating 8 and 16 bit systems, as latency can be just as good as an FPGA setup. The infoNES emulator has been running on RP2040 for a while, and I see projects for Sega Master System, Genesis, Apple II, and Mac in the works. But you can also write much more powerful software natively. Likely it will be possible to adapt software between these various RP2350 systems. [1]: https://github.com/DusterTheFirst/pico-dvi-rs/wiki/RP2350-DVI-boards https://github.com/DusterTheFirst/pico-dvi-rs/wiki/RP2350-DV...
jhbadger 1y ago
"Compiled languages can be used externally" I realize that 8MB of RAM seems absurdly small to modern audiences, but I can assure you that I ran early versions of Turbo Pascal and compiled fine with 64K.
- ikskuh 1y ago
  Creator here! I know, i know! This is what makes me a bit sad. I dont know of any modern compiler i can use on the platform, as most hobby compilers target aarch64 or 32/64 bit x86. What i need tho is a compiler that targets Arm/Thumb-2. My research tells me that this confines me to: - A non-complete patch series for TCC (maybe) - LLVM - GCC As twonof them obviously won't run on 8 MB, my options are stripped down to: - Evaluate CBE and write my own backend and add 32 bit support - Write my own compiler + backend Both options don't sound viable before the release as they would increase the scope greatly.
  - aa-jv 1y ago
    Considered the effort required to add Lua support to the platform? At least eLua would fit and probably provide a great environment for onboard development (i.e. non-crosscompiling...)
    - ikskuh 1y ago
      Lua is planned! It's an interpreted language with a lightweight compiler which is one of the next things on the "large scale" todo list!
      - aa-jv 1y ago
        Ah, that is great news and bumps up my motivation to get involved. Will keep an eye on things, thanks for the info!
- izacus 1y ago
  Yeah, but Turbo Pascal was also a small language with limited size of binaries (remember overlays?).
redundantly 1y ago
I'd like to sign up for their newsletter, but it appears I can't because I use a nonstandard TLD for my personal email (.info). Lame.
- oconnor0 1y ago
  Strange, I was able to sign up from my .family email
  - redundantly 1y ago
    Turns out the problem was on my end. Pihole blocked it.
ecesena 1y ago
> To fund development for this critical next stage, we will launch a crowdfunding campaign on a platform such as Indiegogo or Kickstarter. Great point. I highly recommend crowdsupply for this type of project (extremely technical target customers), especially if this is the first campaign you run, as their team is helping much more on the nuances of running a successful campaign. (I know this is not the place for ads, and I’m not affiliated though I run crowdfunding campaigns on all the platforms mentioned.)
jojobas 1y ago
>Fully understandable by one person >Raspberry Pi RP2350 Main SoC Yeah right.
voidUpdate 1y ago
This looks really interesting. I'd love to make something like this myself, from scratch, but I know I'd only get about 2 days into it before ADHD brain decided to do something else. Plus I'd be the only person who'd ever use it, and at that point it would be easier just to use a commercial PC. It could make a cool "cyberdeck" though. I'm already thinking about how I could do the bus stuff for the expansion cards, without having looked at the exact implementation details for this computer haha
- ikskuh 1y ago
  Creator here! I'm also having ADHD but you can get help with the focus problem ;) It's incredible to work for many years on the same thing and it's so pleasing to have steady progress. So: Go, start building a vision for your cyberdeck! Having a clear goal helps you working towards building it, and you cam embrace the ADHD by jumping around between the many aspects of such a project. sw design, hw design, visual design, mechanical design, handcrafting, soldering, programming, making websites, asking people, ...
  - voidUpdate 1y ago
    Haha, I've been trying to get help with the focus problem for a while now :P It's gone on my infinite todo list of projects, and maybe I'll get around to it one day, but its true that it would exercise lots of different brain parts. The most interesting part to me right now is running Zig on a microcontroller, since that's something I really wanted to do this year (like a new year's resolution thing). I've been interested in Zig for a while, but I've never done any serious learning/programming with it, so I might look at your OS repo to at least gain some inspiration on how deploying to a microcontroller works. It also seems like it would be a really good way to learn embedded electronics in general, since if I wanted to learn something new, eg lower level network programming, I could make and program a network card, or usb hosting, or anything like that. I'll definitely try to do it one day, once I've finished all my current projects haha
    - 334f905d22bc19 1y ago
glgrau 1y ago
Really cool and inspiring
echoangle 1y ago
> Fully understandable by a single person, yet powerful enough to run a graphical desktop OS, it tries to bridge the gap between Arduinos and a RaspberryPi. Considering this uses a RP2350, I am pretty sure that no single person on earth has a full understanding of this Computer.
- aa-jv 1y ago
  The RP2350 is one hell of a tool, and I've seen it being used to solve some extremely thorny problems with great success. So I'm pretty sure there are plenty of folks who understand whats going on, especially if they approach their study of the Ashet from the perspective of the RP2350. Basically, its one hell of a swiss army knife for building computer systems.
  - echoangle 1y ago
    I can solve thorny problems using Linux on a Laptop too, that doesn't mean I understand even 1% of the system. Even a relatively simple modern Microcontroller is so extremely complex that I don't think a single person could describe every aspect of it in detail.
    - aa-jv 1y ago
      By way of anecdotal counterpoint, I've got a teenage trainee apprentice working in my lab who can indeed read the RP2350 datasheet and describe what its doing and how to use it effectively in other applications. I don't think things are as difficult to understand as you do - but then again, I grew up with 8-bit computers where it really was competitively important to understand how they worked - and I don't think the cyclomatic complexity of the Ashet is much greater than anything from that era.
      - echoangle 1y ago
        Reading and applying the datasheet doesn't mean understanding the whole system. I don't even think a single employee of Raspberry Pi Foundation entirely understands the chip. It's a combination of IP cores and work of many different people, and probably too complex for a single person.
bitwize 1y ago
It looks really cool. Reminds me more of a 1970s S100 box, like the Altair or the IMSAI 8080.
jshaqaw 1y ago
I love the spirit of this so believe me I’m not here to denigrate it. Just sharing anecdote of building one of those “retro style” Linux/pi kits with my kids some years ago. I thought having a bare metal style machine would get them entranced by computers like it did in the early 80s. But you can’t roll back the clock. Kids today live saturated in a computerized and digital world no matter how much we may try to shelter them from it. When I saw a bare DOS prompt at age 7 it felt like all the magic in the world at my fingertips. But not for my kids. What once was science fiction to me is no more amazing to them then the fact that we have 24 hour indoor electric lighting at the touch of a switch. It’s just a different world today.
- ikskuh 1y ago
  Creator here! You're absolutely right! I wasn't there either, and i wouldnt want a terminal-only machine. My goal is providing means and knowledge to those that want it. The Ashet is more meant for technical schools, apprenticeship and "the interested", and definitly requires an initial spark that will make that project interesting to you. It's here to fill a (percieved) gap and wants to sit more in the professional education part than the "get the kids to computing". I'd love to have had such a hands-on device in school instead of the bare theory of circuit operation and basics of programming.

313 points by todsacerdoti 1y ago

He's still too young for something like this but I've been searching for something to use when we more properly introduce my son to computers. Using modern components to make something useful that still exposes the electronics side, encourages tinkering and exploration over media consumption, etc and it seems like a project like this could fit the bill nicely!

ikskuh 1y ago
Creator here! That sounds exactly what i had in mind, and i really wanna do the same when my boy is old enough for computers. It's a teaching tool and a fun toy to tinker with
JKCalhoun 1y ago
No doubt you've already looked into Ben Eater's various offerings (?).
- tuckerman 1y ago
  I came across them (and they seem very cool!) but my working theory is that, in addition to more electronics heavy projects like those, I also want something that can fill the role of the apple ii plus that was the "family computer" when I was a kid without going straight to giving him access to a modern desktop/computer which feel so hermetic. I'm somehow very confident in this while also being sure that people probably thought very similar things about home radios destroying the youth in the 1920s :D
  - JKCalhoun 1y ago
    Look into the RC2014 project then perhaps (https://rc2014.co.uk https://rc2014.co.uk). It's been around for ten years of so — has quite an ecosystem already.
uticus 1y ago
https://www.nand2tetris.org/ https://www.nand2tetris.org/
poulpy123 1y ago
I think machines are more for adults and passionate teenagers than for children. But you can also look at the tulip creative computer that is more geared towards creative computing (especially music)

JKCalhoun 1y ago

I like that it is using a backplane architecture. The OS made me wonder how far someone could get trying to create a GUI for the 6502. I suppose the Apple II (GS?) headed there before the Mac fully took the reins and the Apple II was left out to pasture.

pinewurst 1y ago
https://www.a2desktop.com https://www.a2desktop.com http://toastytech.com/guis/a2geos.html http://toastytech.com/guis/a2geos.html
alexisread 1y ago
Well the most well known one is Geos for the C64 https://youtu.be/_4nthOx8sA4?si=AiK9bRxRQwV3MB0f https://youtu.be/_4nthOx8sA4?si=AiK9bRxRQwV3MB0f There's also this Atari homebrew https://youtu.be/T14dL9MeMHE?si=cGtsZGWILYi4jcql https://youtu.be/T14dL9MeMHE?si=cGtsZGWILYi4jcql And yes the IIGS had one https://youtu.be/YvVFTpukAp0?si=UtvV3N_pKhxU-Tyb https://youtu.be/YvVFTpukAp0?si=UtvV3N_pKhxU-Tyb
- aidenn0 1y ago
  One comment on the IIgs vs the C64; the IIgs had a 16-bit CPU and tons of RAM, so GS/OS is not necessarily representative of what is possible on a 6502.
BirAdam 1y ago
Yeah, the backplane immediately gives me S100 vibes.

uticus 1y ago

> an expandable and hackable computer in the spirit of the 80's home computers cool! > Dual Core CPU hm that will make for some interesting first steps in learning

ZiiS 1y ago
Tbh having a seperate io core can simplify scheduling.
- sounds 1y ago
  Agree. Most computers that are a joy to learn have a handful of controllers that operate in parallel. That is, multiple cores The Apple II had a really cool disk drive because of how it did what it did with so little hardware. By relying on the single CPU for everything it was elegant, advanced, interesting... but perhaps not so easy to program. https://www.bigmessowires.com/2021/11/12/the-amazing-disk-ii-controller-card/ https://www.bigmessowires.com/2021/11/12/the-amazing-disk-ii...
lysace 1y ago
The Parallax P8X32A Propeller (2006) did multi-core processing in a very beginner friendly way. It can be done - if you take a holistic approach to hardware + runtime + development environment. The Propeller probably failed because of the custom language, the custom assembly syntax, the custom ISA, the custom IDE font (!) etc. It was a very neat system though.
- duskwuff 1y ago
  The Propeller was a commercial failure because it was a one-off part, from a small company, with very little software ecosystem surrounding it, a poor performance to price ratio, and no migration path if you needed more capabilities than it could provide.
  - lysace 1y ago
    Meh. Similar pricing and availability compared to its primary competitor at the time: Arduino. It was just too unusual in too many ways. In one way it’s a bit like the Amiga vs the 8088/8086 PC.

mmackh 1y ago

There’s something to be said about an independent system you can understand and expand. What I think will be next frontier in home computing is truly understanding and owning the systems that run a smart home and that comes with understanding the environment (sensor data, presence detection, etc.). We live in an interesting time where embedded development has become so accessible and powerful that we can interface with multiple wireless protocols and state of the art sensors with not a lot of capital investment. If we think what can come beyond screens and imagine more ambient computing systems - maybe we’ll see new and interesting innovations

BizarroLand 1y ago
I like the eurorack-esque modular design. Not everyone will want the same base layout, so making it swapable like that is a nice touch.
- aa-jv 1y ago
  Actually this thing would be a lot sexier if it were in fact complying with Eurorack standards, imho. There's no better environment to be dropping an alternative computing platform than directly into the rack alongside the rest of the interesting modules of the 21st century ..
  - ikskuh 1y ago
    Creator here! I did consider Euro Rack, 19" racks, MiniATX and other case standards. But with any of these options, i wouldnt be able to keep the price low. The case including all parts and assembly cost is roughly at 20€ per device. It's an off-the-shelf part, with only lasercutted parts in two materials, and a single custom component which is yet to be determined what's the cheapest manufacturing option. I wanted to keep the price low and any of the options above would increase the price by at least 40€, which is a subatantial part of the components
    - aa-jv 1y ago
      I can buy a small Eurorack module box for 25eu, including power supply and handles. So .. I dunno .. just seems like with a bit of extra design work, Ashet could become Eurorack compatible at least, for those of us who want to hack it into that environment. But anyway, I see you are quite busy with other issues, I'll pipe down about it.

joshu 1y ago

i've been thinking about how to build a retro-style computer without any of the engineering compromises that made old machines so weird. lots of ideas, no progress. perhaps some sort of small riscv machine and a separate processor to manage the system (esp32) remotely, so you can always modify the filesystem or whatever from a bigger machine?

nancyminusone 1y ago

Not ragging on the author, but I'm always confused whenever I see a "make your own computer" project like this that doesn't start with hardware first. I mean, there's already seems to be a quite advanced OS for it and some detailed docs, but no physical "computer" to speak of, just a lot of mockups. Why a hardware project at that point and not a virtual machine like pico-8? I'm just saying, its kinda the opposite approach a hardware person would take.

wizzwizz4 1y ago
https://ashet.computer/hardware/ https://ashet.computer/hardware/ looks like hardware to me. While not all the manufacturing considerations have been addressed, there's a "functional cable clutter prototype", and you can build your own Ashet-compatible.
- myself248 1y ago
  That all looks like renders and diagrams to me. Dime a dozen, as has been said. https://ashet.computer/gallery/img/ashet-hc-devsetup-02.jpg https://ashet.computer/gallery/img/ashet-hc-devsetup-02.jpg looks like hardware!
ikskuh 1y ago
Creator here. Please take a look at the gallery, where there are photos of the actual electronics setups! Also don't the mechanical mockups count as hardware? A pile of jumperwires, breadboards and devices don't make a good hero image, but physical hardware mockups do. Also the electronics design in its current form is actually iteration 5 of the system, while the OS development started with iteration 2. The OS does boot on the electrical prototype
- nancyminusone 1y ago
  >A pile of jumperwires, breadboards and devices don't make a good hero image I strongly disagree! Hardware people love seeing that sort of thing - the more guts you show, the better. It means you've gotten something to work and probably know what you're talking about. Take pride in what you have accomplished so far! Ideas and concepts are a dime a dozen; working hardware is a worthy milestone.

turnsout 1y ago

I love the general backplane architecture, which gives it a look similar to Apple's canceled Jonathan project [0] [0]: https://512pixels.net/2024/03/apple-jonathan-modular-concept/

smm11 1y ago

Got an Amiga and Trumpcard you can have cheap.

jameszog 1y ago

We have a stack of obsolete machines from e waste that we use for kids to build their own. Free and reusing dumped gear.

bevr1337 1y ago

> Fully understandable by a single person Riddle me this, Batman. What's the scope of "fully understandable?" How much of this home PC could be reasonably audited by individuals or small teams? I've got no exceptional opsec needs as an individual, but I spend some time wondering the minimum required resources to audit a PC. Looking through the docs I see cases where there are multiple suppliers for a recommended part -- that's very cool! As a "fake programmer" and web jockey, this looks like the right balance of complexity to learn with.

ilaksh 1y ago
I don't think it's really a fair claim in an educational context. There are at least two completely modern computers (which I assume means fairly complex) including the Raspberry PI and another one he is using the the bus or something. I just don't think modern CPUs really quite fit the claim of "fully understandable by a single person". I mean maybe technically but that is misleading in an educational context where there are much simpler computers that are definitely fully understandable. Maybe all of the stuff he wraps around the main CPU is understandable though. And the expansion cards are cool.
- bevr1337 1y ago
  > but that is misleading in an educational context where there are much simpler computers that are definitely fully understandable. Are there any other projects or resources in this space that you'd recommend? A friend and I cut our teeth on those AlphaSmart word processors that ran BASIC. I might could wrap my head around that.
  - vermilingua 1y ago
    Ben Eater’s 6502 series (and whole channel) is the gold standard (imo) for understanding how a computer works in every detail. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLowKtXNTBypFbtuVMUVXNR0z1mu7dp7eH https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLowKtXNTBypFbtuVMUVXNR0z1...
  - BirAdam 1y ago

TheAmazingRace 1y ago

I love this project! Kudos to the author. Some day, whenever I have the money to skunkworks this properly, I've wanted to create something like a modern spiritual successor to the Atari ST with enhanced creature comforts. Something with a CPU based on POWER architecture (like microwatt) with a simplified multicore design (no hyperthreading or weird BIG+little core design - just straightforward homogeneous cores), a simple expansion interface of some kind, and an OS baked into ROM. Then I'd consider it to be built around a long term support model, with one design that can last decades, complete with schematics, chip design reference guide, and an open specification so it can be easily cloned as desired. Especially now that Moore's Law and Dennard Scaling has slowed down considerably, it could be a fun platform to target for education or the demoscene, instead of spec chasing.

eikenberry 1y ago

Their OS is written in Zig! https://github.com/Ashet-Technologies/Ashet-OS Thought it might be of interest to people learning Zig. I bet there are some interesting examples in there.

anitil 1y ago
I've been following Andrew Kelley's writing and zig is probably next on the list for me (previously would have been rust). The story from C to Zig and the ease of cross compilation makes it really tempting. I haven't looked in to the comptime capabilities much but it looks like it could help with some of the embedded work I do
rollcat 1y ago
The OS looks highly opinionated and I respect that. Better to have a single overarching vision than try to do too many things poorly. However I will question some design choices! - 32-bit only: the writing is on the wall, many vendors (HW&SW) are slowly moving to kill it off. I guess it's fine, but IMHO each ISA (regardless of pointer width) should just be considered a different ISA. Portability is good, it ensures your software doesn't hardcode too many assumptions about the platform - and weeds out bugs. Just treat an int like an int, and a pointer like a pointer. Distinct types. - Pure co-op multitasking: it will be completely fine, until you try serious in-system development. Hard reboot any time I make a mistake in a for-loop? Mercy, please :,) Implementing a simple watchdog via a timer interrupt will still keep all of the scheduling logic simple and stupid: it's just another case for a yield call, except now involuntary. The runaway process will simply never see completion, but seeing that it would never yield anyway, I don't see a problem just killing it. And most importantly, the sanity shall be preserved.
- ikskuh 1y ago
  Creator here! Yes, the OS is highly opinionated, as just making another linux is incredibly boring for me! The 32-bit only constraint is mainly due to my focus on smaller architectures, especially microcontrollers. x86_64 and aarch64 both have much more complex initialiastion schemes, and also use much more complex page table setups. Thus, i wanted to keep that out of the system, considering i'm targeting systems with a tiny fraction of the 4 GiB memory limit. The co-op multitasking is a part of the OS, and the OS doesn't give you preemptive multitasking. I never said i won't implement sanity safeguards! Just killing off a hanging process that doesnt yield for more than 1-5 secs is totally i scope and increases user friendlyness. but considering the system reboots in 1.2 s on target hw right now, the user will maybe just have hit reset by then :D

raphlinus 1y ago

Along similar lines but physically much smaller, there are currently about 3 or 4 boards[1] that have RP2350, DVI, USB host, and SD card, ranging in cost from about $15 to $40. A particular sweet spot is emulating 8 and 16 bit systems, as latency can be just as good as an FPGA setup. The infoNES emulator has been running on RP2040 for a while, and I see projects for Sega Master System, Genesis, Apple II, and Mac in the works. But you can also write much more powerful software natively. Likely it will be possible to adapt software between these various RP2350 systems. [1]: https://github.com/DusterTheFirst/pico-dvi-rs/wiki/RP2350-DVI-boards https://github.com/DusterTheFirst/pico-dvi-rs/wiki/RP2350-DV...

jhbadger 1y ago

"Compiled languages can be used externally" I realize that 8MB of RAM seems absurdly small to modern audiences, but I can assure you that I ran early versions of Turbo Pascal and compiled fine with 64K.

ikskuh 1y ago
Creator here! I know, i know! This is what makes me a bit sad. I dont know of any modern compiler i can use on the platform, as most hobby compilers target aarch64 or 32/64 bit x86. What i need tho is a compiler that targets Arm/Thumb-2. My research tells me that this confines me to: - A non-complete patch series for TCC (maybe) - LLVM - GCC As twonof them obviously won't run on 8 MB, my options are stripped down to: - Evaluate CBE and write my own backend and add 32 bit support - Write my own compiler + backend Both options don't sound viable before the release as they would increase the scope greatly.
- aa-jv 1y ago
  Considered the effort required to add Lua support to the platform? At least eLua would fit and probably provide a great environment for onboard development (i.e. non-crosscompiling...)
  - ikskuh 1y ago
    Lua is planned! It's an interpreted language with a lightweight compiler which is one of the next things on the "large scale" todo list!
    - aa-jv 1y ago
      Ah, that is great news and bumps up my motivation to get involved. Will keep an eye on things, thanks for the info!
izacus 1y ago
Yeah, but Turbo Pascal was also a small language with limited size of binaries (remember overlays?).

redundantly 1y ago

I'd like to sign up for their newsletter, but it appears I can't because I use a nonstandard TLD for my personal email (.info). Lame.

oconnor0 1y ago
Strange, I was able to sign up from my .family email
- redundantly 1y ago
  Turns out the problem was on my end. Pihole blocked it.

ecesena 1y ago

> To fund development for this critical next stage, we will launch a crowdfunding campaign on a platform such as Indiegogo or Kickstarter. Great point. I highly recommend crowdsupply for this type of project (extremely technical target customers), especially if this is the first campaign you run, as their team is helping much more on the nuances of running a successful campaign. (I know this is not the place for ads, and I’m not affiliated though I run crowdfunding campaigns on all the platforms mentioned.)

jojobas 1y ago

>Fully understandable by one person >Raspberry Pi RP2350 Main SoC Yeah right.

voidUpdate 1y ago

This looks really interesting. I'd love to make something like this myself, from scratch, but I know I'd only get about 2 days into it before ADHD brain decided to do something else. Plus I'd be the only person who'd ever use it, and at that point it would be easier just to use a commercial PC. It could make a cool "cyberdeck" though. I'm already thinking about how I could do the bus stuff for the expansion cards, without having looked at the exact implementation details for this computer haha

ikskuh 1y ago
Creator here! I'm also having ADHD but you can get help with the focus problem ;) It's incredible to work for many years on the same thing and it's so pleasing to have steady progress. So: Go, start building a vision for your cyberdeck! Having a clear goal helps you working towards building it, and you cam embrace the ADHD by jumping around between the many aspects of such a project. sw design, hw design, visual design, mechanical design, handcrafting, soldering, programming, making websites, asking people, ...
- voidUpdate 1y ago
  Haha, I've been trying to get help with the focus problem for a while now :P It's gone on my infinite todo list of projects, and maybe I'll get around to it one day, but its true that it would exercise lots of different brain parts. The most interesting part to me right now is running Zig on a microcontroller, since that's something I really wanted to do this year (like a new year's resolution thing). I've been interested in Zig for a while, but I've never done any serious learning/programming with it, so I might look at your OS repo to at least gain some inspiration on how deploying to a microcontroller works. It also seems like it would be a really good way to learn embedded electronics in general, since if I wanted to learn something new, eg lower level network programming, I could make and program a network card, or usb hosting, or anything like that. I'll definitely try to do it one day, once I've finished all my current projects haha
  - 334f905d22bc19 1y ago

glgrau 1y ago

Really cool and inspiring

echoangle 1y ago

> Fully understandable by a single person, yet powerful enough to run a graphical desktop OS, it tries to bridge the gap between Arduinos and a RaspberryPi. Considering this uses a RP2350, I am pretty sure that no single person on earth has a full understanding of this Computer.

aa-jv 1y ago
The RP2350 is one hell of a tool, and I've seen it being used to solve some extremely thorny problems with great success. So I'm pretty sure there are plenty of folks who understand whats going on, especially if they approach their study of the Ashet from the perspective of the RP2350. Basically, its one hell of a swiss army knife for building computer systems.
- echoangle 1y ago
  I can solve thorny problems using Linux on a Laptop too, that doesn't mean I understand even 1% of the system. Even a relatively simple modern Microcontroller is so extremely complex that I don't think a single person could describe every aspect of it in detail.
  - aa-jv 1y ago
    By way of anecdotal counterpoint, I've got a teenage trainee apprentice working in my lab who can indeed read the RP2350 datasheet and describe what its doing and how to use it effectively in other applications. I don't think things are as difficult to understand as you do - but then again, I grew up with 8-bit computers where it really was competitively important to understand how they worked - and I don't think the cyclomatic complexity of the Ashet is much greater than anything from that era.
    - echoangle 1y ago
      Reading and applying the datasheet doesn't mean understanding the whole system. I don't even think a single employee of Raspberry Pi Foundation entirely understands the chip. It's a combination of IP cores and work of many different people, and probably too complex for a single person.

bitwize 1y ago

It looks really cool. Reminds me more of a 1970s S100 box, like the Altair or the IMSAI 8080.

jshaqaw 1y ago

I love the spirit of this so believe me I’m not here to denigrate it. Just sharing anecdote of building one of those “retro style” Linux/pi kits with my kids some years ago. I thought having a bare metal style machine would get them entranced by computers like it did in the early 80s. But you can’t roll back the clock. Kids today live saturated in a computerized and digital world no matter how much we may try to shelter them from it. When I saw a bare DOS prompt at age 7 it felt like all the magic in the world at my fingertips. But not for my kids. What once was science fiction to me is no more amazing to them then the fact that we have 24 hour indoor electric lighting at the touch of a switch. It’s just a different world today.

ikskuh 1y ago
Creator here! You're absolutely right! I wasn't there either, and i wouldnt want a terminal-only machine. My goal is providing means and knowledge to those that want it. The Ashet is more meant for technical schools, apprenticeship and "the interested", and definitly requires an initial spark that will make that project interesting to you. It's here to fill a (percieved) gap and wants to sit more in the professional education part than the "get the kids to computing". I'd love to have had such a hands-on device in school instead of the bare theory of circuit operation and basics of programming.