8 ms·

I'm fearing the day when my quite old ICE car dies and I end up in a situation where the best option is a newer car that is a computer on wheels running softwar

• Terr_ 1y ago
  I'm hopeful that stuff like Android Auto or Apple CarPlay will continue moving some of the risky obsolete-able complexity away of the giant expensive machine I plan to keep for over a decade (the car) and into smaller easier-to-replace ones (my smartphone.) A quick outline for those who haven't used them: The car's head-display becomes mostly-controlled by your phone, which is what supplies any navigation, music, podcasts, address-book, GPS, cellular data-connection, etc. Meanwhile the car focuses on providing the display/touchpad hardware, inputs from steering-wheel controls, and maybe AM/FM radio modes. With the right vehicles/adapters I don't even need to take my phone out of my pocket, which is great because then I can't forget it in the car.
  • dangus 1y ago
    This is not the direction that the software is going in. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/05/carplay-ultra-the-next-generation-of-carplay-begins-rolling-out-today/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/05/carplay-ultra-the-nex...
    • compootr 1y ago
      fascinating idea, but no mention of android. Would one (like me!) simply be unable to use this car to its full extent?
    • mook 1y ago
      CarPlay Ultra sounds like it's extending it further? That is, it's still essentially VNC† with some data fed from the car and rendered by the phone, but now with multi-monitor support. † it's more complicated than that, but still a dumb framebuffer.
      • poink 1y ago
        This is what I hoped for but based on the Ultra implementation in the Astons is not at all what we’re getting It seems to require pretty deep integration with the automaker (Aston provides a lot of custom visuals), and based on the available third party reviews it doesn’t work as well as you’d suspect for a flagship integration
      • bayindirh 1y ago
        > but still a dumb framebuffer. Nope. Your car and phone exchanges some info, too. Like serial numbers, some real time telemetry data, etc.
      • echoangle 1y ago
        I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators? I thought the main image would be rendered on the car using local data and only the entertainment stuff is transferred from the phone. And also, how would you drive your car without the phone if everything is rendered on the phone? Would they implement an entire backup dashboard for this? I thought it would always show the CarPlay Ultra interface, even when no phone is connected.
        • ToucanLoucan 1y ago
          > I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators? I have some understanding of this being someone who has installed way too many aftermarket head units, and as best I can tell, all the rendering indeed occurs on the phone. The CarPlay experience is virtually identical across all the units I've tested on, from my stock '18 Corvette unit, through 4 or 5 ones I've shuffled through in my F-150, and through 2 or 3 through my Chrysler 300. Apart from display size and density, there is no difference at all in all these CarPlay units. They function identically. The phone also gets notably warm even just playing music which is part of why I strongly suspect all of that is phone-side activity at play with the dash just providing a resolution/density combo and touch inputs. > Would they implement an entire backup dashboard for this? Correct, if my research is to be believed. There's a stock OEM OS look to everything in line with each brand's visual designs, which is then swapped out to whatever degree they feel like exposing to CarPlay Ultra, at which point it's reskinned in Apple's look. I don't own any vehicles new enough for this, but it's pretty cool if it works. That said I'm less a fan of everything being a display. For gauges and such I do prefer physical gauges.
  • zevon 1y ago
    This is a bit of a two-edged sword. I kind of doubt that Carplay and Android Auto will keep working with new phones as long as a car can. At which point you will end up with an old smartphone in your car or some workaround like that.
    • rimunroe 1y ago
      Has this ever happened with CarPlay? As far as I know, even if your car was made in 2013 when CarPlay was first released it should continue to work just fine with the newest iPhones. If you plug the latest iPhone into your 2013 car, you would see the latest version of CarPlay pop up on the screen. I know there's a new version of CarPlay which requires support from the car maker, but I think CarPlay support is a binary matter of if the car supports CarPlay at all. I'd hope they'd design the system such that it wouldn't become obsolete over the average lifespan of the vehicle.
      • bluGill 1y ago
        I would hope so, but I don't trust computer makers. There are people who still use cars made in the 1960s as their daily driver (probably only a handful in the US). Most parts are still available, and if not you can make them in your garage with affordable tools (metal lathes are rare but not unheard of in a home shop). Apple switch to OSX, m68k to PPC to x86 (ARM is in progress). I had the first android phone - the apps I bought for it back then are not on installable on my current phone (most haven't very modified from what I ran back then). If I had a copy I could still run Office 97 on a modern windows 11 machine - or so I'm told - but nobody will know how to inter change files with me. My company has had to redesign perfectly good embedded controllers just because the chips are not made anymore.
        • philistine 1y ago
          On the other hand, Apple is quick to get rid of old APIs in their software, but they consider features sacrosanct. Only this Fall will macOS lose support for Firewire, which finally means that we have a version of macOS that doesn't support the first iPod. Which came out in 2001. All the USB iPods will still connect and sync.
  • exabrial 1y ago
    This was vehicles made in 2018. I’m trying to keep mine alive as long as possible.
  • eitally 1y ago
    I posted this above, but in new Lexus RX models at least, the Lexus vehicle management software trumps the AA interface so you're forced to setup their mobile app if you want to use AA (for things like navigation). On a related note, the Bluetooth stack in my F150 doesn't work very well with phone calls. I can place calls fine, but receiving calls will not route them through vehicle audio. I have to turn on speaker phone to participate. It's a known problem "won't fix" from Ford, regardless of the fact that they've sold millions of these trucks (mine is a 2017 and has never worked).
    • grepfru_it 1y ago
      That sounds like sync 3.. there was a known problem with Bluetooth connectivity but there was a fairly easy way to fix it. I cannot remember but I will look at my ford vehicle tonight for what I did
    • slumberlust 1y ago
      They want their hands on that juicy data that Google and apple are getting. It's why GMC opted to make their own instead, and why you have to jump through their hoops first.
  • foobarian 1y ago
    I can't figure out why car manufacturers insist on building whole parallel universes of UIs, media apps, nav apps et cetera. Doesn't it cost a ton? Do people actually use/want this stuff?
    • AlexandrB 1y ago
      The why is pretty simple: they want recurring revenue. What the customer wants is secondary.
      • Version467 1y ago
        And insisting on building their own mediocre ui helps them achieve that how exactly? Maybe I'm just super out of touch on how people use their cars, but my cars infotainment system has not made its manufacturer any additional money as far as I can tell.
        • aprilthird2021 1y ago
          Once you have the data the money can be figured out later. You can figure out how people use the car and what features matter to them and upsell or upcharge for those features in the next line. You can cross-advertise (oh you listen to music when driving here's Spotify deal through us and behind-the-scenes we get a cut for lead generation to Spotify). You can use the information to defend in lawsuits. Oh our car is faulty leading to accidents? But all these people were fiddling with the unit before crashing. Also if you control the platform you can sell integration spots to companies. I know my old BMW had a specific separate path to connect Spotify on your phone to car, no other audio app. There's surely other ways I haven't thought of. The investment pays off later IF you get the data, but CarPlay and Android Auto have really mucked that gambit up for the car makers
          • jonbiggums22 1y ago
            Don't forget selling the driving data to insurance companies, private investigators, law enforcement, etc.
  • Wistar 1y ago
    GM, at least on their new Equinox EV, no longer supports either Apple CarPlay or Android Auto electing instead to provide only the Google built-in infotainment system and apps. I discovered this just yesterday while researching the Equinox for a friend. She is no longer interested in the Equinox despite her loving its looks.
    • hexyl_C_gut 1y ago
      For some reason, they still get CarPlay outside of US. https://www.thedrive.com/news/gm-evs-will-get-apple-carplay-after-all-but-only-outside-the-us https://www.thedrive.com/news/gm-evs-will-get-apple-carplay-...
• layoric 1y ago
  Same, early 2010s IMO seems to be the point where the industry really started to shift. There are some good cars from before this time, but keep them running past the 2030s will be a challenge.
  • userbinator 1y ago
    There are some good cars from before this time, but keep them running past the 2030s will be a challenge. If it's a pre-computer car, all you need is a machine shop or access to one.
  • flomo 1y ago
    This problem solved itself on my car because it only has a 3G modem.
    • bestham 1y ago
      On an adjacent theme there has been a large debate in Sweden if a car that has mandated automatic eCall over 2G or 3G is faulty and thus not roadworthy if the 2G and 3G networks are turned off. The eCall feature was introduced broadly in 2018. It still uses modem sounds over a voice phone call to relay car emergency status and position. New solutions for packet only networks (4g and 5G) have been standardised but are not retrofitted to older cars.
      • potato3732842 1y ago
        There's, broadly speaking, two ways this can go. The first way this can go is that the people with a stake in selling cars (dealers, OEMs, etc) get their lobbyists leaning on the politicians and get it rammed through. The second is that the issue gets delayed long enough that the number of older vehicles it applies to goes down out of attrition and it's not worth fighting over. Considering the cultural disposition of the nordics when it comes to matters like this I expect the first option to be chosen. There will enough people hand wringing about safety and whatnot to provide the political lubricant to ensure the first outcome.
      • toast0 1y ago
• gonzo41 1y ago
  Consider an electric cargo bike if you're life will suite it.
  • zevon 1y ago
    It may be easy to get a simple(ish) one now, but there are already a lot of e-bikes out there with "smarts", apps, vendor-lock-ins up the wazoo, cellular connection and the like. If electric cargo bikes ever go mainstream, I expect the majority of them will be techifyed in the same vein as the Hyundai the author wrote about.
    • deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  • MetaWhirledPeas 1y ago
    > Consider an electric cargo bike if you're life will suite it. Don't they have proprietary batteries? So you're out of luck at end-of-life if that company still isn't in business. And if a part fails are there replacements? I'll give you the price is cheap. But if we're just looking for cheap then OP has nothing to worry about. There's cheap transportation in a variety of forms if you buy used.
    • bluGill 1y ago
      I ride such a bike, and I would no longer call it cheap - the range/speed is limited enough that I feel compelled to have a car anyway that just sits. I still have to pay taxes and insurance on that car, plus the yearly oil change (at least it is paid for). What with replacing the bike tires, chain, and cassette a lot more often than I expected I end up spending as much on bike maintenance and I would on gas and the other costs of the car are paid either way. If I could get rid of the car it would be cheaper, but otherwise no. don't get me wrong - I encourage everyone to ride a bike where they can. However it is for health reasons not saving money.
• esalman 1y ago
  There's no way they're going to keep a modular car functioning for years without relying on frequent software updates.
  • tomrod 1y ago
    Did it for 100 years. Nkthing changed. They don't need to make cars into surveillance systems. That's a choice.
    • verisimi 1y ago
      This is the whole point: putting intermediaries between you and the things you think you own. You think you own your car, phone, appliances, but actually, once this system is in place, you will effectively be on some sort of subscription contract with few traditional ownership rights, with many other parties (the car maker, government agencies) able to turn your car off remotely. Nice and safe.
    • calvinmorrison 1y ago
      That's not entirely true. Most cars have revisions to software. Even ones from the 90s had ways to patch the ECU performed by dealers.
      • tomrod 1y ago
        Not without the driver involved in the cycle, either directly or indirectly. Now they are along for the ride no matter what.
  • achierius 1y ago
    Concretely, why not? If you don't get updates, there's nothing to break the thing -- and if you don't have a network connection, you don't need the security updates.
    • deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
• pabs3 1y ago
  Another option is converting an ICE car to EV: https://openinverter.org/wiki/ZombieVerter_VCU https://openinverter.org/wiki/ZombieVerter_VCU https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43898280 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43898280 https://youtube.com/@evbmw https://youtube.com/@evbmw
  • oakstendheim 1y ago
    I really wish these options would become more common, maybe even similar to the whole ecosystem around old American muscle cars. Pick and choose a (mostly) standardized drive train, standardized battery packs of different capacities and and your electronics to connect everything together.
    • waste_monk 1y ago
      I thought the issue is more the batteries and weight distribution. That is, EVs usually have the batteries along the length of the chassis to spread the load out, which is not practical to retrofit onto an ICE car. And if you fill the engine bay on an ICE car with battery packs during the conversion, the weight distribution will be extremely uneven and cause trouble with the suspension and related components, poor handling, etc.
      • bayindirh 1y ago
        > etc. That "etc." hides "moving the heaviest, most flammable and non-extinguishable part of the drivetrain into a primary crumple zone in front of you" pretty neatly. :D
        • Loudergood 1y ago
          On the opposite side of something that's long been called a "Firewall" for a reason.
          • bayindirh 1y ago
            However, lithium fires burn hotter and can't be contained as easily. So, that firewall may need an update, too. Plus, as I noted in the weight part, an engine in a compartment is designed to detach and slide down to protect the cell. Can every retrofitter guarantee the same thing for their battery packs?
• fc417fc802 1y ago
  I'm not really worried about a lack of updates to an embedded device provided that it isn't network connected. To me the root of the issue, and also a far more concerning problem in and of itself, is that from what I understand modern vehicles are connected to the mobile network and phone home.
  • 3eb7988a1663 1y ago
    If you are not connected to the internet and installing the latest patches, you will be vulnerable to the next RCE!
  • numpad0 1y ago
    Yeah, security is not a liquid. It won't diminish over time, and can't be added by updating. Updates replace something with something else, in this day and age likely third world outsourced code with vibecoded burning dumpster. Disconnecting the device from networks is basically always a better alternative. I don't understand why that much isn't so obvious to HN readers.
  • eptcyka 1y ago
    Dealerships will want you to service at their shops because they will upload all the BT metadata that the car has logged. Just because it can’t upload data on its own does not mean data instead logged.
    • eptcyka 1y ago
      …does not mean data is not logged. Apple, please fix your keyboards.
• darthrupert 1y ago
  For what it's worth, the first Tesla model that ever got software upgrades is still getting them. That's the Model S from 2012.
• winrid 1y ago
  There are plenty of modern options. Most of my vehicles do not get over the wire updates ('12 honda civic, '15 base model Colorado, '17 Spark). Our tiguan does, sadly.
• Max-q 1y ago
  Reminds me of old Mercedes and BWMs with built-in NMT phones in their console. The cars lasted a lot longer than the NMT standard for mobile phones.
• jacquesm 1y ago
  If my car's engine dies (which at some point it probably will do, after all, these things don't live forever) I'll just rebuild it again. It's got 200K on it and a relatively fresh engine (40K) so I think I'm good for a long time to come but buying a modern vehicle isn't even on the menu for me. If I really want malware I'll disable my adblocker, I really don't need it in my car.
• MetaWhirledPeas 1y ago
  You're driving an old car now; you could just drive a different old car when that time comes. But if you're talking about new cars, I think the best way to mitigate that is to buy something that is ubiquitous. The popular cars are the most likely to have enthusiasts finding ways to keep them running until the wheels fall off.
• pengaru 1y ago
  > Of all the new cars ideas I've seen recently, only the Slate mini-truck seems to be taking a minimalist approach, with no fancy head unit or navigation system. Agreed re: Slate, it looks interesting through this lens for sure. But I also think there's probably a business opportunity here, and wonder why a bunch of thinkpad enthusiasts don't get together and start a classic tech business delivering simple EVs with knobs+levers, and computers that don't suck.