4 ms·

I personally support age verification for porn. However, age verification for almost anything else, e.g. Reddit, is a terrible idea.

ngruhn 1y ago
Idk age restricting Instagram, TikTok etc. might be good for teenagers mental health.
- fc417fc802 1y ago
  I agree. If we have to have age verification laws I'd rather they be applied to social media networks over some size than to porn sites. That said, I think requiring ID is generally a bad idea regardless. Much better would be some standardized way for websites to tag the type of content in a header coupled with third party filtering solutions that could be applied at the network (ie firewall) or device level.
  - ElectroBuffoon 1y ago
    We already have standards: PICS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_for_Internet_Content_Selection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_for_Internet_Content_... POWDER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_for_Web_Description_Resources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_for_Web_Description_R... ASACP/RTA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Sites_Advocating_Child_Protection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Sites_Advocatin... What seem to lack is the will power to use them. Or after seeing in the linked site: *EU politicians exempt themselves from this surveillance under "professional secrecy" rules. They get privacy. You and your family do not. Demand fairness. they really want mass surveillance for the plebs even by creating a weak point for enemies. To hell not just with rights but also defence. So any excuse will do.
    - fc417fc802 1y ago
      Well don't I feel like an uninformed dumbass. Talk of standards aside, pornhub apparently includes the following header if you visit it. rating: RTA-5042-1996-1400-1577-RTA RTA stands for "restricted to adults". So the large websites, ie the entities that would actually be bound by any proposed legislation, are already proactively facilitating network operators and parents filtering them out. And apparently have been all along. Wild.
      - ElectroBuffoon 1y ago
        Yes, many sites already have it, RTA is nearly 3 decades old. It seems new proposed laws always ignore such systems are not just a theory but in a reality in use. What happens over and over only reinforces they idea that they really want "everyone, empty your pockets and show your papers, NOW!" laws and just hide it with "it's the only way, trust us; for the children!". A pretty telling proof is they want to be exempt.
- Aeolun 1y ago
  It’d be good for all mental health. Banning the whole thing is probably a lot more sensible, but then people would have to face their own addictions.
- alerighi 1y ago
  If the parents want they can restrict their usage. I prefer to monitor and teach my children how to use technology properly, and that also includes of course sex education because it's not by banning porn sites till they are 18+ that you solve the issue to me, but by educating. Unfortunately we have among sex and other things still the mentality of 1900, except that today most 18 year old already lost their virginity, and he can't watch porn? Well...
  - graemep 1y ago
    > Unfortunately we have among sex and other things still the mentality of 1900, except that today most 18 year old already lost their virginity, and he can't watch porn? I think there are good arguments for claiming porn is more harmful than actual sex at that age, or at least some types or porn. I agree that if the aim of the legislation was really to stop kids watching porn it would be better served by making it mandatory for ISPs to provide filtered connections for households with minors and filtered SIM cards for minors.
    - FabHK 1y ago
      > I agree that if the aim of the legislation was really to stop kids watching porn it would be better served by making it mandatory for ISPs to provide filtered connections for households with minors and filtered SIM cards for minors. Without thinking about it too deeply, that does sound reasonable. Was that ever discussed? Why was it not, or was rejected?
      - graemep 1y ago
        It was discussed many years ago. ISPs used to offer it. EE, at least, still offers filtered SIM cards. Its not in wide use, and I think most people do not know its an option and it has no lobby group pushing for it so I am sure politicians do not know about it.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
    Most parents do not have the technical skills to effectively limit that usage. The vast majority may not even be aware that software tools and features exist that could limit it. For that matter, I am aware, and the features on most products are insufficient... I shouldn't have to block Youtube at the router-level, but that's about the only thing I can do. Works for the Xbox, which is plugged into ethernet, but it won't work for the iPhone since it just does fallback to cell service. What's to stop the kid from buying some cheap Android device and swapping in their sim, so they can get around Apple's parental controls? >except that today most 18 year old already lost their virginity, True when we were kids. But bizarrely less true today.
moodywoody 1y ago
There's porn on reddit though
- gorgoiler 1y ago
  Even better, do a Google image search for “porn” and turn off filters. You will see pornography hosted by Google’s servers! I can’t understand why, at least in the spirit of these new laws, Google is exempt from age verification. (In practice, sections 80 and 81 in the Online Safety Act carve out exemptions for “search” and “user-to-user” sites. For the former, presumably the exemption is because the actual porn is served from machines other than Google’s.)
marcus_holmes 1y ago
Define "porn" then I'll think about what you're proposing to age verify.
IshKebab 1y ago
Yeah I think you have it backwards. I don't think anyone has demonstrated any actual harms from porn, but social networks regularly fuck teenagers up. I definitely would prefer my children to watch porn than get bullied - or worse - on social media. There's also the fact that I vaguely trust Facebook or Reddit to do a credit card-based age check or whatever. No way I'm giving any of my details to porn sites. Stupid dumb law.
- uyzstvqs 1y ago
  > I don't think anyone has demonstrated any actual harms from porn That's disingenuous and false. It's pretty common knowledge that pornography is not representative of real relationships, and because it's not actually emotionally satisfying, it takes regular consumers down a rabbit hole of increasingly extreme, vile and obscure content. Take a guess what that does to a developing teenager, essentially being educated by pornography. Not to say that it's not harmful to adults too, because it is. But yes, government control, censorship and centralization of the internet is not the solution. Mandatory ID checks will not protect any kids, it will destroy the free and open internet.
  - IshKebab 1y ago
    > It's pretty common knowledge that pornography is not representative of real relationships, and because it's not actually emotionally satisfying, it takes regular consumers down a rabbit hole of increasingly extreme, vile and obscure content. That's not common knowledge or true. Most of the population watches porn. Where's the harm? > pornography is not representative of real relationships No shit. Next you'll be telling me that Batman isn't representative of real billionaires.
    - uyzstvqs 1y ago
      "In talking to the subjects, researchers discovered that high exposure to pornography videos apparently resulted in lower responsivity and an increased need for more extreme, specialized or “k+++y” material to become aroused."[1] This effect can be clearly seen in that pornography websites promote this extreme, vile and obscure content, such as incest, exhibitionism, and even depictions of non-consensual interaction and physical abuse.[2] Obviously, these matters have no place in a healthy relationship, and it's pretty basic psychology that regular consumption of this content causes the normalization of such practices, especially in impressionable teenagers whom do not yet have legitimate experience in healthy, normal relationships. A majority of adults watches pornography.[3] And we're dealing with a massive loneliness epidemic under younger generations, together with a significant rise in "hook-up culture" over forming serious relationships. Coincidence? [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5039517/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5039517/ [2] Just go to one of those websites. I'm not going to do that, neither am I going to link to that here. [3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1402222/us-adults-pornography-habit/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1402222/us-adults-pornog...

ngruhn 1y ago

Idk age restricting Instagram, TikTok etc. might be good for teenagers mental health.

fc417fc802 1y ago
I agree. If we have to have age verification laws I'd rather they be applied to social media networks over some size than to porn sites. That said, I think requiring ID is generally a bad idea regardless. Much better would be some standardized way for websites to tag the type of content in a header coupled with third party filtering solutions that could be applied at the network (ie firewall) or device level.
- ElectroBuffoon 1y ago
  We already have standards: PICS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_for_Internet_Content_Selection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_for_Internet_Content_... POWDER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_for_Web_Description_Resources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_for_Web_Description_R... ASACP/RTA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Sites_Advocating_Child_Protection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Sites_Advocatin... What seem to lack is the will power to use them. Or after seeing in the linked site: *EU politicians exempt themselves from this surveillance under "professional secrecy" rules. They get privacy. You and your family do not. Demand fairness. they really want mass surveillance for the plebs even by creating a weak point for enemies. To hell not just with rights but also defence. So any excuse will do.
  - fc417fc802 1y ago
    Well don't I feel like an uninformed dumbass. Talk of standards aside, pornhub apparently includes the following header if you visit it. rating: RTA-5042-1996-1400-1577-RTA RTA stands for "restricted to adults". So the large websites, ie the entities that would actually be bound by any proposed legislation, are already proactively facilitating network operators and parents filtering them out. And apparently have been all along. Wild.
    - ElectroBuffoon 1y ago
      Yes, many sites already have it, RTA is nearly 3 decades old. It seems new proposed laws always ignore such systems are not just a theory but in a reality in use. What happens over and over only reinforces they idea that they really want "everyone, empty your pockets and show your papers, NOW!" laws and just hide it with "it's the only way, trust us; for the children!". A pretty telling proof is they want to be exempt.
Aeolun 1y ago
It’d be good for all mental health. Banning the whole thing is probably a lot more sensible, but then people would have to face their own addictions.
alerighi 1y ago
If the parents want they can restrict their usage. I prefer to monitor and teach my children how to use technology properly, and that also includes of course sex education because it's not by banning porn sites till they are 18+ that you solve the issue to me, but by educating. Unfortunately we have among sex and other things still the mentality of 1900, except that today most 18 year old already lost their virginity, and he can't watch porn? Well...
- graemep 1y ago
  > Unfortunately we have among sex and other things still the mentality of 1900, except that today most 18 year old already lost their virginity, and he can't watch porn? I think there are good arguments for claiming porn is more harmful than actual sex at that age, or at least some types or porn. I agree that if the aim of the legislation was really to stop kids watching porn it would be better served by making it mandatory for ISPs to provide filtered connections for households with minors and filtered SIM cards for minors.
  - FabHK 1y ago
    > I agree that if the aim of the legislation was really to stop kids watching porn it would be better served by making it mandatory for ISPs to provide filtered connections for households with minors and filtered SIM cards for minors. Without thinking about it too deeply, that does sound reasonable. Was that ever discussed? Why was it not, or was rejected?
    - graemep 1y ago
      It was discussed many years ago. ISPs used to offer it. EE, at least, still offers filtered SIM cards. Its not in wide use, and I think most people do not know its an option and it has no lobby group pushing for it so I am sure politicians do not know about it.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
  Most parents do not have the technical skills to effectively limit that usage. The vast majority may not even be aware that software tools and features exist that could limit it. For that matter, I am aware, and the features on most products are insufficient... I shouldn't have to block Youtube at the router-level, but that's about the only thing I can do. Works for the Xbox, which is plugged into ethernet, but it won't work for the iPhone since it just does fallback to cell service. What's to stop the kid from buying some cheap Android device and swapping in their sim, so they can get around Apple's parental controls? >except that today most 18 year old already lost their virginity, True when we were kids. But bizarrely less true today.

moodywoody 1y ago

There's porn on reddit though

gorgoiler 1y ago
Even better, do a Google image search for “porn” and turn off filters. You will see pornography hosted by Google’s servers! I can’t understand why, at least in the spirit of these new laws, Google is exempt from age verification. (In practice, sections 80 and 81 in the Online Safety Act carve out exemptions for “search” and “user-to-user” sites. For the former, presumably the exemption is because the actual porn is served from machines other than Google’s.)

marcus_holmes 1y ago

Define "porn" then I'll think about what you're proposing to age verify.

IshKebab 1y ago

Yeah I think you have it backwards. I don't think anyone has demonstrated any actual harms from porn, but social networks regularly fuck teenagers up. I definitely would prefer my children to watch porn than get bullied - or worse - on social media. There's also the fact that I vaguely trust Facebook or Reddit to do a credit card-based age check or whatever. No way I'm giving any of my details to porn sites. Stupid dumb law.

uyzstvqs 1y ago
> I don't think anyone has demonstrated any actual harms from porn That's disingenuous and false. It's pretty common knowledge that pornography is not representative of real relationships, and because it's not actually emotionally satisfying, it takes regular consumers down a rabbit hole of increasingly extreme, vile and obscure content. Take a guess what that does to a developing teenager, essentially being educated by pornography. Not to say that it's not harmful to adults too, because it is. But yes, government control, censorship and centralization of the internet is not the solution. Mandatory ID checks will not protect any kids, it will destroy the free and open internet.
- IshKebab 1y ago
  > It's pretty common knowledge that pornography is not representative of real relationships, and because it's not actually emotionally satisfying, it takes regular consumers down a rabbit hole of increasingly extreme, vile and obscure content. That's not common knowledge or true. Most of the population watches porn. Where's the harm? > pornography is not representative of real relationships No shit. Next you'll be telling me that Batman isn't representative of real billionaires.
  - uyzstvqs 1y ago
    "In talking to the subjects, researchers discovered that high exposure to pornography videos apparently resulted in lower responsivity and an increased need for more extreme, specialized or “k+++y” material to become aroused."[1] This effect can be clearly seen in that pornography websites promote this extreme, vile and obscure content, such as incest, exhibitionism, and even depictions of non-consensual interaction and physical abuse.[2] Obviously, these matters have no place in a healthy relationship, and it's pretty basic psychology that regular consumption of this content causes the normalization of such practices, especially in impressionable teenagers whom do not yet have legitimate experience in healthy, normal relationships. A majority of adults watches pornography.[3] And we're dealing with a massive loneliness epidemic under younger generations, together with a significant rise in "hook-up culture" over forming serious relationships. Coincidence? [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5039517/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5039517/ [2] Just go to one of those websites. I'm not going to do that, neither am I going to link to that here. [3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1402222/us-adults-pornography-habit/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1402222/us-adults-pornog...