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This is utterly dystopian. We say some stupid things as kids, because they're just words and we're missing greater context at that age. Immediately and automat

This is utterly dystopian. We say some stupid things as kids, because they're just words and we're missing greater context at that age. Immediately and automatically engaging law enforcement, and even the FBI, is horrific. Kids have always had greatly restricted freedoms in schools, but transcending the classroom and monitoring their digital lives is just training them to accept the surveillance state.

worldsayshi 1y ago
The fact that this technology exists might make decision makers feel compelled to always to add as much surveillance as possible and acting on it as diligently as possible. Because it's their responsibility to create safety. And the most short term solution is to always enact more control over everything.
- doctorwho42 1y ago
  Adding more and more safety and control is always a self-defeating policy. It always ends with creating uncontrollable societal discord. Same thing with unfettered capitalism, the systems only work if we continue to support said systems. When the rules break down, so do the desires of the collective to maintain said systems.
  - worldsayshi 1y ago
    It seems that a deeper cause of this is lack of trust in long term solutions and the ability to come up with a plan that beat the short term knee jerk solutions - which could make the problems worse. If we can somehow win back trust in our collective ability to democratically solve problems... that should solve the problem. I think that involves some creative solutions to collective decision making.
    - doctorwho42 1y ago
      I agree, though I find that society has been throughly indoctrinated in thinking only about profit/economic motives and impacts. That is going to be the first major hurdle, teaching enough people that economics aren't the only metric for running a society, community, and life.
      - Refreeze5224 1y ago
        > thinking only about profit/economic motives and impacts. > teaching enough people that economics aren't the only metric for running a society, community, and life. I agree that this is the major problem with society today, but I don't see a solution when this is exactly the desired state of affairs by anyone with any amount of money. It's funny how only in economics is a secondary effect (efficiency/production/profit) optimized for, and we just hope or assume that it will result in wide-scale health/happiness/wellbeing. In any other situation, we would just design the system around the desired outcome.
      - worldsayshi 1y ago
        Agreed. I think there are methods for teaching that at scale. Like, let's design an idle game that shows other possibilities.
- 1718627440 1y ago
  The fact that weapons exist, might make some people feel compelled to always shoot as much as possible. Sure, these people exist. They are dangerous.
koakuma-chan 1y ago
> We say some stupid things as kids, because they're just words and we're missing greater context at that age. I think the problem is that people send kids to public schools and just hope for the best. Imagine you have a brand new child, and you send it to school, and the child ends up saying something offensive, is this the child's fault? I think not. The child was trained on harmful data, it's not surprised the child exhibited undesirable behaviours.
- mr90210 1y ago
  > The child was trained on harmful data, it's not surprised the child exhibited undesirable behaviours. Your comment reduces children to entities that will behave as expected provided they get fed “good” data. Humans are not LLMs.
  - koakuma-chan 1y ago
    I think children will behave properly given proper values and education.
    - giantg2 1y ago
      I don't think that's universally true, but I do generally agree. It at least raises the probability substantially.
      - koakuma-chan 1y ago
        Correct. According to Socrates, corruption of majority is unavoidable.
  - giantg2 1y ago
    You're taking the inverse of the commentor said. Being fed good data and being good is a different thing than being fed bad data and expecting them to be good. There are plenty of studies on formative environments, especially on how negative environments can lead to negative behaviors.
- 1y ago
kolektiv 1y ago
> training them to accept the surveillance state From the perspective of those pushing this kind of technology and political movement, is that a bug or a feature?
- doctorwho42 1y ago
  Yeah, it's a feature. If anything, its a basement bargain feature. For any large system, indoctrination early and often is the best way for systemic change. We already see it with the modern surveillance state, post 9-11 the US citizenry has lost so many freedoms and if you ask random people on the street about it they would be perplexed. Hell, even my friends give me a bit of the "ahh so this is your conspiracy theory" look when I mention them. Growing up through 9-11 and the forever war was pretty dystopian, or at least a March into the dystopia's that I only read about in books.

worldsayshi 1y ago

The fact that this technology exists might make decision makers feel compelled to always to add as much surveillance as possible and acting on it as diligently as possible. Because it's their responsibility to create safety. And the most short term solution is to always enact more control over everything.

doctorwho42 1y ago
Adding more and more safety and control is always a self-defeating policy. It always ends with creating uncontrollable societal discord. Same thing with unfettered capitalism, the systems only work if we continue to support said systems. When the rules break down, so do the desires of the collective to maintain said systems.
- worldsayshi 1y ago
  It seems that a deeper cause of this is lack of trust in long term solutions and the ability to come up with a plan that beat the short term knee jerk solutions - which could make the problems worse. If we can somehow win back trust in our collective ability to democratically solve problems... that should solve the problem. I think that involves some creative solutions to collective decision making.
  - doctorwho42 1y ago
    I agree, though I find that society has been throughly indoctrinated in thinking only about profit/economic motives and impacts. That is going to be the first major hurdle, teaching enough people that economics aren't the only metric for running a society, community, and life.
    - Refreeze5224 1y ago
      > thinking only about profit/economic motives and impacts. > teaching enough people that economics aren't the only metric for running a society, community, and life. I agree that this is the major problem with society today, but I don't see a solution when this is exactly the desired state of affairs by anyone with any amount of money. It's funny how only in economics is a secondary effect (efficiency/production/profit) optimized for, and we just hope or assume that it will result in wide-scale health/happiness/wellbeing. In any other situation, we would just design the system around the desired outcome.
    - worldsayshi 1y ago
      Agreed. I think there are methods for teaching that at scale. Like, let's design an idle game that shows other possibilities.
1718627440 1y ago
The fact that weapons exist, might make some people feel compelled to always shoot as much as possible. Sure, these people exist. They are dangerous.

koakuma-chan 1y ago

> We say some stupid things as kids, because they're just words and we're missing greater context at that age. I think the problem is that people send kids to public schools and just hope for the best. Imagine you have a brand new child, and you send it to school, and the child ends up saying something offensive, is this the child's fault? I think not. The child was trained on harmful data, it's not surprised the child exhibited undesirable behaviours.

mr90210 1y ago
> The child was trained on harmful data, it's not surprised the child exhibited undesirable behaviours. Your comment reduces children to entities that will behave as expected provided they get fed “good” data. Humans are not LLMs.
- koakuma-chan 1y ago
  I think children will behave properly given proper values and education.
  - giantg2 1y ago
    I don't think that's universally true, but I do generally agree. It at least raises the probability substantially.
    - koakuma-chan 1y ago
      Correct. According to Socrates, corruption of majority is unavoidable.
- giantg2 1y ago
  You're taking the inverse of the commentor said. Being fed good data and being good is a different thing than being fed bad data and expecting them to be good. There are plenty of studies on formative environments, especially on how negative environments can lead to negative behaviors.
1y ago

kolektiv 1y ago

> training them to accept the surveillance state From the perspective of those pushing this kind of technology and political movement, is that a bug or a feature?

doctorwho42 1y ago
Yeah, it's a feature. If anything, its a basement bargain feature. For any large system, indoctrination early and often is the best way for systemic change. We already see it with the modern surveillance state, post 9-11 the US citizenry has lost so many freedoms and if you ask random people on the street about it they would be perplexed. Hell, even my friends give me a bit of the "ahh so this is your conspiracy theory" look when I mention them. Growing up through 9-11 and the forever war was pretty dystopian, or at least a March into the dystopia's that I only read about in books.