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> * A teacher sponsoring a club put student artwork through Microsoft Copilot to 'clean it up' because he thought it looked too unfinished and the kid felt incr

> * A teacher sponsoring a club put student artwork through Microsoft Copilot to 'clean it up' because he thought it looked too unfinished and the kid felt incredibly disrespected and upset. and rightly so! kids deserve better, that is awful

chii 1y ago
however, this same action could be useful if it was placed in a different context - for example, if the teacher uses the same AI to produce an artefact, then use it to critique the student as part of teaching (say, to show what might be lacking in a particular piece).
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jfarmer 1y ago
I sometimes find Paul Watzlawick's five axioms of communication helping in thinking about situations like this. Link: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Watzlawick#Five_basic_axioms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Watzlawick#Five_basic_axi...) 1. One cannot not communicate 2. Every communication has a content and relationship aspect such that the latter classifies the former and is therefore a metacommunication 3. The nature of a relationship is dependent on the punctuation of the partners' communication procedures 4. Human communication involves both digital and analog modalities 5. Inter-human communication procedures are either symmetric or complementary Re: (1), the "mere" act of using AI communicates something, just like some folks might register a text message as more (or less) intimate than a phone call, email, etc. The choice of modality is always part of what's communicated, part of the act of communication, and we can't stop that. Re: (2), that communication is then classified by each person's idea of what the relationship is. This is a dramatic and expensive way to learn they had different ideas of their relationship! Of course, in a teacher/student situation, it's the teacher's job to make it clear to the students what the relationship is. Otherwise you risk relationship-damaging "surprises" like this. Even ignoring the normative question of what a teacher Should™ do in that situation, it was counterproductive. Whatever benefit the teacher thought AI would provide, they'd (hopefully) agree it was outweighed by the cost to their relationship w/ students. All future interactions w/ those students will now be X% harder. There's a kind of technical rationale which says that if (1) the GOAL is to improve the student's output and (2) I would normally do that by giving one or more rounds of feedback and waiting for the student to incorporate it then (3) I should use AI because it will help us reach that goal faster and more efficiently. John Dewey described this rationale in Human Nature and Conduct as thinking that "Because a thirsty man gets satisfaction in drinking water, bliss consists in being drowned." He concludes: ”It is forgotten that success is success of a specific effort, and satisfaction the fulfillment of a specific demand, so that success and satisfaction become meaningless when severed from the wants and struggles whose consummations they are, or when taken universally.” The act of receiving and incorporating feedback is not "inefficient", especially not in a school setting. The consummation of that process is part of the goal. Maybe the most important part! Full Dewey quote: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44597741 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44597741
amelius 1y ago
In another view, this prepares the kids for what the future is going to be like.
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chii 1y ago

however, this same action could be useful if it was placed in a different context - for example, if the teacher uses the same AI to produce an artefact, then use it to critique the student as part of teaching (say, to show what might be lacking in a particular piece).

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jfarmer 1y ago

I sometimes find Paul Watzlawick's five axioms of communication helping in thinking about situations like this. Link: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Watzlawick#Five_basic_axioms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Watzlawick#Five_basic_axi...) 1. One cannot not communicate 2. Every communication has a content and relationship aspect such that the latter classifies the former and is therefore a metacommunication 3. The nature of a relationship is dependent on the punctuation of the partners' communication procedures 4. Human communication involves both digital and analog modalities 5. Inter-human communication procedures are either symmetric or complementary Re: (1), the "mere" act of using AI communicates something, just like some folks might register a text message as more (or less) intimate than a phone call, email, etc. The choice of modality is always part of what's communicated, part of the act of communication, and we can't stop that. Re: (2), that communication is then classified by each person's idea of what the relationship is. This is a dramatic and expensive way to learn they had different ideas of their relationship! Of course, in a teacher/student situation, it's the teacher's job to make it clear to the students what the relationship is. Otherwise you risk relationship-damaging "surprises" like this. Even ignoring the normative question of what a teacher Should™ do in that situation, it was counterproductive. Whatever benefit the teacher thought AI would provide, they'd (hopefully) agree it was outweighed by the cost to their relationship w/ students. All future interactions w/ those students will now be X% harder. There's a kind of technical rationale which says that if (1) the GOAL is to improve the student's output and (2) I would normally do that by giving one or more rounds of feedback and waiting for the student to incorporate it then (3) I should use AI because it will help us reach that goal faster and more efficiently. John Dewey described this rationale in Human Nature and Conduct as thinking that "Because a thirsty man gets satisfaction in drinking water, bliss consists in being drowned." He concludes: ”It is forgotten that success is success of a specific effort, and satisfaction the fulfillment of a specific demand, so that success and satisfaction become meaningless when severed from the wants and struggles whose consummations they are, or when taken universally.” The act of receiving and incorporating feedback is not "inefficient", especially not in a school setting. The consummation of that process is part of the goal. Maybe the most important part! Full Dewey quote: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44597741 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44597741

amelius 1y ago

In another view, this prepares the kids for what the future is going to be like.

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