8 ms·

I'm glad the Mastercard-Visa duopoly is finally getting some attention, these companies shouldn't be allowed to exercise the financial control they do. Payment

• p_ing 1y ago
  There's no meaningful attention, here. Until it is on the US Gov't radar, this 'attention' is just a collection of upset redditors furiously posting forum messages which will fissile out in a few months, at most. Besides, it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA.
  • pjc50 1y ago
    I don't think having this on USgov radar would improve the situation. Since FOSTA/SESTA, and various state level age verification laws, it seems likely that government attention would simply bring a bigger hammer down on games. It's the US anti-money-laundering system that ultimately exerts a lot of financial control, after all.
  • delta_p_delta_x 1y ago
    > it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA In many countries, if you pay locally, you absolutely can. China's UnionPay, India's UPI, PayNow in Singapore, PromptPay in Thailand, PayPal, Cash App, and more.
    • p_ing 1y ago
      That's great to hear, but this is a US-centric complaint discussing US-centric companies.
      • cubefox 1y ago
        In principle, a service like this could be offered in the US as well, without any credit card companies acting as middle men: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedNow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedNow
      • tau255 1y ago
        It is not really US-centric. VISA and Mastercard actions resulted in delisting content in all the markets globally. Steam and Itch.io pulled games from all regions, Manga Library Z was hit in Japan, Patreon and Stripe are pressured globally. Suggesting to boycott VISA and Mastercard if you have an alternative is valid.
    • wongarsu 1y ago
      And places like Steam take a lot of payment options. Most online services that wanted to have wide international appeal in the 90s and 2000s had to simply because credit cards were rare in many places, and a lot of those services still have a wide array of options
      • p_ing 1y ago
        Maybe they could come out with a client named "Steamy" where they post all the nudie games and take all forms of shady, underground, scandalous payment methods, like btc and doge.
      • je42 1y ago
        Steam added recently a rule 15th what you should not publish: 15. Content that may violate the rules and standards set forth by Steam’s payment processors and related card networks and banks, or internet network providers. In particular, certain kinds of adult only content. See discussion here for example: https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/601910081412430040/ https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/6019100814124...
    • pwillia7 1y ago
      You need the government to cajole the market to create safe and free inter bank transfer programs. We're not going to do that in the USA -- no one's buddies would get their kickbacks!
      • ethbr1 1y ago
        Like FedNow that was launched in 2023? https://www.frbservices.org/news/fed360/issues/071625/fednow-service-two-years-growth-innovation https://www.frbservices.org/news/fed360/issues/071625/fednow... https://www.frbservices.org/resources/fees/fednow-2025 https://www.frbservices.org/resources/fees/fednow-2025
        • Spivak 1y ago
          Not even close the service offered by, as an example, Pix in Brazil.
          • deleted 1y ago
            [deleted]
          • ethbr1 1y ago
            Granted, but Pix didn't have to compete against entrenched political interests. I expect the meta-plot with FedNow is to commoditize the backend network, then allow private companies to compete on top of it (e.g. Zelle on FedNow), then after adoption as the backbone, finally roll out P2P and P2B type support that finally kills off Visa / Mastercard / Amex (as processing networks).
          • guiambros 1y ago
            Not sure why you were downvoted. Pix is a fantastic example of how much more efficient p2p payments can be, without relying on the Visa-Mastercard duopoly. Of course Pix had the backing of the government, so it had a huge initial boost, and didn't have to compete with entrenched players for market share. Still, the fact is that it's universal, fast, efficient, lower cost for merchants, and less prone to censoring. What's not to like? In a way it's more convenient than making congress pass laws to define payment providers as common carriers. With Pix, payment companies are free to chose their policies, but now citizens have options. Unfortunately that's not the reality in the US.
    • mathiaspoint 1y ago
      The US also has Discover/Capital One and American Express and if you live in some of the nicer parts people still take checks.
      • Spivak 1y ago
        Does that actually help? Because it would send a pretty strong message if the payment screen said, "sorry you can only buy this with amex/discover" (click here for why) but that doesn't seem to be how this plays out.
        • 15155 1y ago
          Because making these products for sale at all in the catalog will cause Visa/MC to pull out for other, "approved" offerings.
  • ginko 1y ago
    Honestly I hope this comes under the EU's radar.
    • bboygravity 1y ago
      Oh the EU will happily pass new laws to screen your entire life when you'd like to buy a game (and to record and store everything you talk about with fellow gamers in case you say something that goes against EU policies). EU will even arrange a special new bank account for ya outside of Visa Mastercard called CBDC. No problem. EU is here for ya! /s
      • yladiz 1y ago
        What are you even talking about?
      • p_ing 1y ago
        1984 took place in the EU. I mean, if Brexit hadn't happened and the EU existed in 1984, of course.
        • weberer 1y ago
          You can just say it happened in Europe.
        • seanhunter 1y ago
          That’s factually untrue. 1984 takes place in Britain (now known as “Airstrip one”) which in the universe of the book is part of Oceania along with Australia, southern Africa and the Americas. The other two superpowers are Eurasia (which as the name suggests is Europe less the UK and Ireland but with Asia) and Eastasia, which is South-East Asia more or less https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_geography_of_Nineteen_Eighty-Four https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_geography_of_Ninetee...
          • deleted 1y ago
            [deleted]
  • perihelions 1y ago
    > "which will fissile out in a few months" A tangential nitpick: it's fizzle out, from a Middle English etymology meaning "to fart"; not to fission (fissile being an adjectival form), from Latin "to split". https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fizzle#Etymology https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fizzle#Etymology ("Attested in English since 1525-35. From earlier fysel (“to fart”). Related to fīsa (“to fart”). Compare with Swedish fisa (“to fart (silently)”). See also feist.") https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/feist#Etymology https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/feist#Etymology https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fissile#Etymology https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fissile#Etymology ("From Latin fissilis.")
    • Waterluvian 1y ago
      I’ve never heard fissile out but I love it for describing a problem that will go away once the full consequences have already been felt.
      • GlacierFox 1y ago
        It's fizzle where I'm from in the UK. To fizzle out is to weakly and pittifully end with no meaningful after effects. Like after lighting a firework that didn't actually go off. "It's fizzled out!"
    • 93po 1y ago
      guessing it was autocorrect issue :)
    • dpoloncsak 1y ago
      "to fission (fissile being an adjectival form), from Latin 'to split'." Does this mean "Missile" means "to miss"? 'Cause boy have we been using those things wrong :-)
      • btown 1y ago
        The missile needs to know how to miss, because it knows where it is from knowing where it isn’t. https://youtu.be/bZe5J8SVCYQ https://youtu.be/bZe5J8SVCYQ
  • raincole 1y ago
    > Besides, it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA Most countries have some kinds of domestic transaction systems, or at least a more local credit card brand. They're also usually instant. It's more or less an US-only situation that people use Visa/Mastercard even for intranational stuff.
    • forgotoldacc 1y ago
      Most countries I've been to use Visa as their most common card. Living in a major Asian country and every bank and credit card company offers Visa as their main card as well. China is kind of an outlier with Union Pay, and while a large number of countries offer their own alternatives, I'd say most are Visa-first. Apparently about 37% of cards around the world are Visa, so that's a huge chunk. JCB is the biggest non-Chinese non-American provider by revenue, and even they're a minor player in their home country.
    • weberer 1y ago
      That is absolutely false. In pretty much any western country, you're forced to use the VISA network, even for debit cards. Take a closer look at your locally branded card, and you'll almost certainly see a VISA log tucked away somewhere.
      • bolobo 1y ago
        Depends, in France for instance all the cards are dual "VISA/Mastercard" and "CB ". They will use CB in france and use the partner network in foreign countries.
  • gus_massa 1y ago
    You can switch to Amex, but here in Argentina like half of the postnets don't recognize it. Also there are a few QR networks, some made by the banks like "Modo" and other no-a-bank ones like "MercadoPago" and a few minor ones. Even the guy/gal that sells hot bread on the street accept most of them.
    • Hamuko 1y ago
      Amex is only available on Steam in the US. I have a basic free Amex card as a backup, but I wouldn't be able to use it for my Steam purchases. Presumably because the processing fees are just that much higher. Somehow I'm able to use a JCB card though. As far as I'm aware, JCB cards aren't even available here.
    • xeonmc 1y ago
      > You can switch to Amex, but here in Argentina like half of the postnets don't recognize it. To this point, it was even a punchline in The Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy.
  • ipaddr 1y ago
    You can boycott both but say goodbye to saas purchases and being tracked.
  • fennecfoxy 1y ago
    The EU should certainly look into this though. I don't always like what they do, but a conglomerate of many large markets (countries) means that these shitty fucking companies and scumbag executives get forced to sit up and listen.
  • infecto 1y ago
    Whole heartedly agree. I would also rather the discussion be how can we disrupt the problem rather than a mob mentality to take down Visa (which is never going anywhere anyway).
  • Guthur 1y ago
    It is on their radar, but they only care that the whole world pays a US tax via these payment providers. The US does look to kindly on local payment systems.
  • pchangr 1y ago
    Germany actually uses their own card system .. or cash. They are very much against visa/mastercard due to their “high commission fees” and “privacy concerns” Girocard charges a 0,3% fee vs visa/mastercard 3% See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girocard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girocard
    • EgregiousCube 1y ago
      You're comparing a regional debit network to an overarching network that includes lots of different fee structures. The USA has debit networks (STAR, etc) with similar cost structures too - Germany is not unique in this regard.
      • thomastjeffery 1y ago
        My debit card is a VISA.
    • Maken 1y ago
      Germany also sold Eurocard to MasterCard.
    • gruez 1y ago
      >Girocard charges a 0,3% fee vs visa/mastercard 3% AFAIK all credit cards in the EU have similarly low interchange rates because of EU regulation.
      • jamesrr39 1y ago
        0.2% > Payment service providers shall not offer or request a per transaction interchange fee of more than 0,2 % of the value of the transaction for any debit card transaction. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2015/751/oj/eng https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2015/751/oj/eng
    • f6v 1y ago
      So does Russia, Denmark, Belgium/Netherlands, Iran, China. I’m sure there’re others. I know someone working on unified payment platform for games in Africa. They have dozens of different payment systems instead of the two.
  • bityard 1y ago
    > Besides, it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA. Why not? Lots of people, especially in lower income brackets, don't have ANY credit cards at all. I know many. They buy groceries and gas with cash and pay their utilities by ACH or mailing a check. Everything else they need, they buy locally. What you mean to say is that it's _inconvenient_ for you personally to boycott Visa/Mastercard. Which may be true enough.
    • no_wizard 1y ago
      Visa and Mastercard run debit networks for majority of banks and credit unions. They get fees there as well. Even lower income citizens use debit cards more than cash nowadays. You would need to use different networks like Discover and American Express to effectively boycott them
    • filleduchaos 1y ago
      Well, we are discussing an online storefront/distribution service for a digital good (with obvious relevance to people here). Are you suggesting that it's merely inconvenient for Valve and its customers to not transact in cash?
    • thomastjeffery 1y ago
      That depends entirely on who you are paying. Many places reject checks, fail to setup ACH, etc. Those aren't direct competitors anyway: that would be American Express, which is often rejected since their business model is centered on customer bonuses funded through high transaction fees.
    • AngryData 1y ago
      I use cash for 90% of my expenses, and I bank with a local credit unions, but this and every other bank and credit union around use visa or mastercard for debit card services and I have to use the card for most online purchases.
  • no_wizard 1y ago
    You can, if you switch to using American Express and Discover cards. They’re both closed networks that only take their particular card. It’s almost trading one for another but it would be an effective way to boycott these companies
  • immibis 1y ago
    > Besides, it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA. Every single time I have the option to buy an event ticket by SEPA transfer or credit card, which is actually very often, I choose SEPA transfer. One time I even used Bitcoin. It does seem to be mostly event tickets that have this option, for some reason. And I'm not talking about the TicketMaster monopoly, either.
• pwillia7 1y ago
  Does the government view it as 2 throats to choke and so the risk is 'worth it' or is it just a condition of gilded age II and corp and political greed and corruption? Why did we make all those monopoly laws only to completely forget they exist or why we ever made them?
  • ethbr1 1y ago
    It's mostly just the way things turned out without government intervention. American Express' card started in 1958, as a pivot of their then already 100-year-old business: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Express#1920s%E2%80%931970s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Express#1920s%E2%80%9... Visa also in 1958 as a Bank of America (and friends) card, which quietly expanded into the mid-60s: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Inc.#History https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Inc.#History Mastercard in the mid-60s from banks who BoA wouldn't invite into the Visa clubhouse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastercard#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastercard#History And Discover in the mid-80s because Sears was big enough to be its own financial services firm: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discover_Card#History https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discover_Card#History
• Rodmine 1y ago
  [flagged]
  • digitalsushi 1y ago
    why cant we? are you self-censoring because there's some policy forbidding us to talk about something clandestine here? i dont have access to the joke, or inside club, or inner sanctum, and maybe theres other people like me that want to know more and if the mystery is self-imposed then i might respectfully push back that we cant talk about it
    • fwip 1y ago
      Looking at their comment history - they're just a garden-variety conspiracy theorist who think Jews control the world. Some selected comments: * sarcastic use of "gentiles are evil": https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=43139725 https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=43139725 * "dig deeper" with a Jewish-founded company: https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=39043221 https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=39043221 * repeated sarcastic reference to "chosen people" : https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=42723812 https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=42723812 , https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=43412398 https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=43412398
    • carlosjobim 1y ago
      It's a meta discussion, but comments who go against popular opinion amongst HN commenters get increasingly down voted, flagged, [dead]. And it's rarely any extreme or rule-breaking comments. I wrote "against popular opinion", but that might not even be it. It could be that there's a minority of very active users who see it as their job to prune this message board of undesirable opinions. Probably a bunch of them have opened my submission history in a new tab by now to mass downvote or look for evidence that I'm not a human, but in fact a bot, a paid shill, an AI, a Russian citizen, etc.
      • fwip 1y ago
        In this case, the popular opinion that would get them down voted is "The conspiracy theory that the world is secretly run by evil Jewish people is both false and racist." Comments that vague-post about "I would say something but people would down vote it" should be expected to be down voted. Either it is too vague to add anything useful, or it expresses the same belief that they believe will be objectionable. Worrying about your internet score is a sucker's game. Post what you believe, or don't bother.
• dec0dedab0de 1y ago
  I think the mint should maintain a payment processor, and the post office should maintain an official email address for everyone. these are basic things we need to exist in society, we should not be at the whims of private organizations.
  • Damogran6 1y ago
    What's the profit in that? /s
    • Cthulhu_ 1y ago
      You say /s, but a government issued and USPS operated e-mail service may be very profitable. In the Netherlands we have a government message system where the tax office, local counties, water companies, etc can send you 'official' messages. Thing is though, each message costs €0.25 to send. I think this is ridiculously expensive for a glorified email, but I suppose they have a lot of certifications and audits and the like. I hope, anyway. Anyway, email itself is broken, but this system works because if it costs money to send a message, it discourages any spambot and/or misuse.
      • Symbiote 1y ago
        €0.25 is much less than the cost of printing and posting a letter, and presumably this service comes with proof of delivery. (There's a similar system in Denmark.)
  • egypturnash 1y ago
    Is a payment processor operated by the Federal Reserve good enough? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedNow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedNow Well, it probably would be, except guess who killed it in favor of a crypto scheme? https://www.jitumaster.com/2025/06/us-president-signs-executive-order-to.html https://www.jitumaster.com/2025/06/us-president-signs-execut... I agree about the PO though. Social media shouldn't be a for-profit enterprise either.
    • 1y ago
• EliasWatson 1y ago
  This is the kind of problem that Bitcoin was designed to solve.
  • tdb7893 1y ago
    Isn't Bitcoin impractical for these sorts of transactions (slow, high fees, no privacy, etc)? People always say Bitcoin was designed to solve this sort of thing but whenever I've looked into it it's been fairly impractical for use in most day-to-day transactions.
    • hahn-kev 1y ago
      Honestly buying a digital game is perfect. Steam can just give it to you right away, and if the transaction doesn't clear they can just revoke the game later.
      • messe 1y ago
        Only in the presence of DRM—an evil I'd prefer to do without when possible.
      • tdb7893 1y ago
        That's only addressing one issue with Bitcoin but the issues abound. I don't know all the issues that would happen but even my rudimentary understanding of payments can see that the high transaction costs are a problem when most of the games I buy are less than 5$. There are ways to design around these glaring issues but Bitcoin is just a worse product for many transactions (and it's not like payment processors are a particularly good product to begin with).
      • deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    • switknee 1y ago
      Bitcoin is so much faster than a credit card transaction that it's not even close. A lightning transaction is near instant, regular bitcoin transfers take in the order of 10 minutes. Credit card transactions take weeks before you get the money, and after that the money can be yoinked back for a multitude of reasons beyond your control as a merchant. The fees are often lower, too. Bitcoiners are for some reason opposed to solving that last issue (no privacy) despite the technology existing in monero. NIH syndrome, I guess. The real unsolved issue for cryptocurrency is between chair and keyboard. People make mistakes, people are afraid of being robbed. Your average person does not want to be their own bank. You can have a bank or payment processor manage your money for you, but then we're back to the regulated world where Visa and Mastercard can determine what games you're allowed to buy.