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> Our bodies are mechanically optimized for running at every level My flat feet (and those of my mom, and those of one of her parents, ad infinitum) would beg

> Our bodies are mechanically optimized for running at every level My flat feet (and those of my mom, and those of one of her parents, ad infinitum) would beg to differ lol Also, most of the energy our bodies burn to run just turns into heat, it's all very inefficient... even if sweating itself works pretty well, and even if our heat tolerance is high assuming we have a source of fresh water

Invictus0 1y ago
I mean, would you prefer we add in some evolutionary pressure? Note also that there are numerous champion runners with flat feet.
- pmarreck 1y ago
  One contributing factor to human weight gain when given a non-limited supply of food is apparently the knocking-out of the gene that produces uricase, which pretty much every other animal has (and they usually don't get fat, even when given unlimited food supply). Not a single human has a working uricase gene. It has been hypothesized that famines throughout human history (there's your "evolutionary pressure") have contributed to this. My point is that selection pressures do not always lead to optimal outcomes... https://chatgpt.com/share/688e4822-4e44-8004-9625-21a254fa026d https://chatgpt.com/share/688e4822-4e44-8004-9625-21a254fa02...
tristanMatthias 1y ago
My friend has fixed his flat feet by focusing on yoga poses that engage the “knife edge” of his feet (ie: the outside). It took some time but he reckons it’s very noticeable. Maybe worth a try?
- federiconafria 1y ago
  It worked for me, it's not even about specific poses, you need to consciously keep your ankle from collapsing and yoga helps with that.
janderson215 1y ago
I’ve read in a few places that the flat feet comes from wearing shoes that don’t allow your toes to splay, which causes the muscles that create the arch to atrophy. Not a scientist and have never had flat feet, so can’t confirm, but I recently started wearing zero drop shoes and definitely feel a healthy soreness as my feet get stronger.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Also when you run don't land flat-footed or heel-first. Land on the front part ("ball") of your foot, this lets your calf muscle absorb the shock, rather than sending the shock straight up your tibia into your knee.
  - monocularvision 1y ago
    This was a total game changer for me when running. I would always develop some sort of knee pain at some point but since making a very minor change to how I land my foot, I am running without any. Make sure to start and transition slowly though as there are warnings about injuring your Achilles and other muscles in your calf if you start off too aggressively.
fmbb 1y ago
Nobody claimed we are intelligently designed. Evolution is not perfect. We are still better at running long distances for long stretches of time than any other animal.
- bee_rider 1y ago
  Evolution is also just optimizing you to live long enough to reproduce and then help your kids get well set up. So, it is fine if your legs start to go in your 40’s. You can help chase down the antelopes ‘till then, then go weave baskets and watch the fire for a decade or so, then die in your 50’s. Actually, it doesn’t seem like a horrible life, but I think we’re hoping to stick around a little longer.
- antisthenes 1y ago
  > Evolution is not perfect. We are still better at running long distances for long stretches of time than any other animal. Not really. We are on par with many animals, or rather they are on par with us, with some tradeoffs on both sides (e.g. humans are better in hotter weather). Wolves, wild dogs, horses (and other fast hoofed herbivores) are all roughly on par in pure ability to run. What made us even more successful is the ability to plan and organize (wolves have this), sweat (only humans can do full-body) and use of tools.
kstrauser 1y ago
My wife's a podiatrist. I can conjure what I've heard her tell a thousand people over the years: invest in arch supports. Shoot for the ones that run about $50 and are rigid. Don't start with the $500 custom ones, and skip the $10 soft ones you see at the pharmacy. Go to REI or a running shop or a sporting goods store and get those instead. My knees freaking killed me when I was running. I started using the supports my wife bought for me and it instantly improved, and far beyond any placebo effect. Before: my knees ached after I ran 100% of the time. Now: they never ache anymore.
- AtlasBarfed 1y ago
  AND YOU DON'T NEED TO RUN to start with. And if you are overweight and sedentary DON'T RUN TO GET INTO SHAPE. Walking, hiking, swimming, biking, and weight training. Mix all of it so you get cross training effects and distribute stress across many domains. Running is, by the standards of the statistical hole America is in terms of obesity, an "advanced" activity. We're talking about something that involves a stress increase of 2.5x to 4.x over walking. Now consider that an obese person with an extra 50 lbs of fat is on their body. Running will be an extra 200 lbs of stress on your feet, and none of that fat tissue is absorbing impact or stabilizing that impact. And on top of it, the fat will disrupt the neuro-biomechanical flow of your neuromuscular system, making you less coordinated and therefore also harder to absorb the impact. As I said elsewhere: use GLP-1 to get the fat down and simultaneously employ a gentle ROUTINE activity program that morphs into more and more exercise and exercise variety.
  - lemonberry 1y ago
    "And if you are overweight and sedentary DON'T RUN TO GET INTO SHAPE." This. Many people aren't in good enough shape to run. And if they do run their form is often terrible. There was a website years ago at WasWayFat.com about a guy that lost a ton of weight just stepping on an aerobic stair in his home. Wayback machine has it: https://web.archive.org/web/20170710225625/http://www.waswayfat.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170710225625/http://www.wasway...
  - terribleperson 1y ago
mtalantikite 1y ago
I had flat feet most of my life, until I started a 5x per week yoga practice (ashtanga based). One day about a year into it I noticed that I had defined arches, something I hadn’t expected at all. All those one leg standing balancing poses really develops your ankles, knees, and feet. Some years later when I started running with typical arch supporting running shoes, picked out for me at a specialty running store where they record your stride etc, I developed pretty bad plantar fasciitis as soon as I started hitting 8k on my runs. Swapped them out for zero drop Altras and I haven’t had issues since. All that is to say our feet are pretty well designed as long as you give it the strengthening it needs. You should take care of your feet, but not coddle them, is how I’ve come to view it.
maxerickson 1y ago
Most energy used for any work (in the physics sense) ends up as heat, eventually.
Llamamoe 1y ago
Flat feet are often a problem of foot muscles and posture. Physiotherapy and strengthening your feet can most likely work wonders even if your family has genetic predisposition for the problem.
wredcoll 1y ago
We're optimized for walking, not sprinting. And if you think our moving->sweating is bad, check out horses and dogs.
tim333 1y ago
If you'd been running barefoot as a kid as nature evolved us for you likely wouldn't have the issue.

Invictus0 1y ago

I mean, would you prefer we add in some evolutionary pressure? Note also that there are numerous champion runners with flat feet.

pmarreck 1y ago
One contributing factor to human weight gain when given a non-limited supply of food is apparently the knocking-out of the gene that produces uricase, which pretty much every other animal has (and they usually don't get fat, even when given unlimited food supply). Not a single human has a working uricase gene. It has been hypothesized that famines throughout human history (there's your "evolutionary pressure") have contributed to this. My point is that selection pressures do not always lead to optimal outcomes... https://chatgpt.com/share/688e4822-4e44-8004-9625-21a254fa026d https://chatgpt.com/share/688e4822-4e44-8004-9625-21a254fa02...

tristanMatthias 1y ago

My friend has fixed his flat feet by focusing on yoga poses that engage the “knife edge” of his feet (ie: the outside). It took some time but he reckons it’s very noticeable. Maybe worth a try?

federiconafria 1y ago
It worked for me, it's not even about specific poses, you need to consciously keep your ankle from collapsing and yoga helps with that.

janderson215 1y ago

I’ve read in a few places that the flat feet comes from wearing shoes that don’t allow your toes to splay, which causes the muscles that create the arch to atrophy. Not a scientist and have never had flat feet, so can’t confirm, but I recently started wearing zero drop shoes and definitely feel a healthy soreness as my feet get stronger.

SoftTalker 1y ago
Also when you run don't land flat-footed or heel-first. Land on the front part ("ball") of your foot, this lets your calf muscle absorb the shock, rather than sending the shock straight up your tibia into your knee.
- monocularvision 1y ago
  This was a total game changer for me when running. I would always develop some sort of knee pain at some point but since making a very minor change to how I land my foot, I am running without any. Make sure to start and transition slowly though as there are warnings about injuring your Achilles and other muscles in your calf if you start off too aggressively.

fmbb 1y ago

Nobody claimed we are intelligently designed. Evolution is not perfect. We are still better at running long distances for long stretches of time than any other animal.

bee_rider 1y ago
Evolution is also just optimizing you to live long enough to reproduce and then help your kids get well set up. So, it is fine if your legs start to go in your 40’s. You can help chase down the antelopes ‘till then, then go weave baskets and watch the fire for a decade or so, then die in your 50’s. Actually, it doesn’t seem like a horrible life, but I think we’re hoping to stick around a little longer.
antisthenes 1y ago
> Evolution is not perfect. We are still better at running long distances for long stretches of time than any other animal. Not really. We are on par with many animals, or rather they are on par with us, with some tradeoffs on both sides (e.g. humans are better in hotter weather). Wolves, wild dogs, horses (and other fast hoofed herbivores) are all roughly on par in pure ability to run. What made us even more successful is the ability to plan and organize (wolves have this), sweat (only humans can do full-body) and use of tools.

kstrauser 1y ago

My wife's a podiatrist. I can conjure what I've heard her tell a thousand people over the years: invest in arch supports. Shoot for the ones that run about $50 and are rigid. Don't start with the $500 custom ones, and skip the $10 soft ones you see at the pharmacy. Go to REI or a running shop or a sporting goods store and get those instead. My knees freaking killed me when I was running. I started using the supports my wife bought for me and it instantly improved, and far beyond any placebo effect. Before: my knees ached after I ran 100% of the time. Now: they never ache anymore.

AtlasBarfed 1y ago
AND YOU DON'T NEED TO RUN to start with. And if you are overweight and sedentary DON'T RUN TO GET INTO SHAPE. Walking, hiking, swimming, biking, and weight training. Mix all of it so you get cross training effects and distribute stress across many domains. Running is, by the standards of the statistical hole America is in terms of obesity, an "advanced" activity. We're talking about something that involves a stress increase of 2.5x to 4.x over walking. Now consider that an obese person with an extra 50 lbs of fat is on their body. Running will be an extra 200 lbs of stress on your feet, and none of that fat tissue is absorbing impact or stabilizing that impact. And on top of it, the fat will disrupt the neuro-biomechanical flow of your neuromuscular system, making you less coordinated and therefore also harder to absorb the impact. As I said elsewhere: use GLP-1 to get the fat down and simultaneously employ a gentle ROUTINE activity program that morphs into more and more exercise and exercise variety.
- lemonberry 1y ago
  "And if you are overweight and sedentary DON'T RUN TO GET INTO SHAPE." This. Many people aren't in good enough shape to run. And if they do run their form is often terrible. There was a website years ago at WasWayFat.com about a guy that lost a ton of weight just stepping on an aerobic stair in his home. Wayback machine has it: https://web.archive.org/web/20170710225625/http://www.waswayfat.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170710225625/http://www.wasway...
- terribleperson 1y ago

mtalantikite 1y ago

I had flat feet most of my life, until I started a 5x per week yoga practice (ashtanga based). One day about a year into it I noticed that I had defined arches, something I hadn’t expected at all. All those one leg standing balancing poses really develops your ankles, knees, and feet. Some years later when I started running with typical arch supporting running shoes, picked out for me at a specialty running store where they record your stride etc, I developed pretty bad plantar fasciitis as soon as I started hitting 8k on my runs. Swapped them out for zero drop Altras and I haven’t had issues since. All that is to say our feet are pretty well designed as long as you give it the strengthening it needs. You should take care of your feet, but not coddle them, is how I’ve come to view it.

maxerickson 1y ago

Most energy used for any work (in the physics sense) ends up as heat, eventually.

Llamamoe 1y ago

Flat feet are often a problem of foot muscles and posture. Physiotherapy and strengthening your feet can most likely work wonders even if your family has genetic predisposition for the problem.

wredcoll 1y ago

We're optimized for walking, not sprinting. And if you think our moving->sweating is bad, check out horses and dogs.

tim333 1y ago

If you'd been running barefoot as a kid as nature evolved us for you likely wouldn't have the issue.