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The case for having roommates even when you can afford to live alone
- nsksl 1y agoThe case for normalising poverty.
- cpach 1y agoOne could argue that for many people, isolation is a form of poverty.
- nsksl 1y agoYou could argue everything, but I’m pretty sure 99% of those sharing a flat are doing so because they can’t afford a flat for themselves, not because they enjoy the company.
- d4mi3n 1y agoIt can also be a matter of preference. I lived alone after moving away from my family for a few years. For someone working long hours, far from home, with a demanding job, there is a particular kind of loneliness at coming home after dark to a cold, quiet home. I ended up cohabitating with close friends after that for a solid decade, during which I met my wife who also joined us. It can be a wonderful arrangement if you have the right people and everyone is working to look after themselves and each other.
- os2warpman 1y agoLiving alone is not living in isolation. My three daughters are grown and have moved out and now I live alone in a four bedroom house. Between work (in office mon-thurs, wfh fridays), my volunteer (fire department and watershed steward), fitness (yoga and lifting), and social club (amateur radio, astronomy, and makerspace) commitments, and my girlfriend (smart and beautiful)-- the 1-3 nights per week I get to come home and sit alone, in the dark, in my underwear, listening to the worst 90s techno ever produced at full volume are the only times I have to relax. As an added bonus when you live alone you can accomplish many things that would be difficult and/or very costly with roommates. Very few people want to live in chaos for months as you methodically open up each wall in your 70-year-old house to run CAT6/HDMI/speaker wires in every room by working an hour or so during your precious few free nights and weekends. (in my underwear, while listening to the worst 90s techno ever at full volume)
- profunctor 1y agoHaving roommates (aka sharing a home) when you leave your family home has been the norm forever. Roommates are not poverty
- ramesh31 1y ago>Having roommates (aka sharing a home) when you leave your family home has been the norm forever. Roommates are not poverty Poverty has been the norm forever. The idea of economic progress for the common person is barely 3 generations old.
- nsksl 1y agoBuying an old beater car as your first car has been the norm forever. But that’s because young people still have no wealth, ie they are poor, not because they don’t want a shiny Audi.
- danaris 1y agoHow about "the case for acknowledging the reality that actually exists, rather than trying to pretend it will go away if we ignore it"?
- socalgal2 1y agoSounds to me like a way to get out of poverty. If my rent is 1/2 to 1/4th what it would be otherwise then I can save that difference and get out of poverty faster than if I paid full rent.
- chistev 1y agoNo, I prefer living without roommates, if I can afford it. I want my privacy and autonomy.
- nixass 1y agoAbsolutely never again with roommates. None of the "benefits" of having them can justify not living alone if one can afford
- 4b11b4 1y agoAgree, did that
- ramesh31 1y agoWomen have such different lives. It's things like this that make it so painfully obvious why single men are isolated and alone in modern society.
- micromacrofoot 1y agoon the other hand I've yet to meet a woman that punches holes in drywall when they're mad, I've had 2 male roommates that have
- ramesh31 1y ago>on the other hand I've yet to meet a woman that punches holes in drywall when they're mad, I've had 2 male roommates that have This is basically my point. Adult women can live together, adult men cannot.
- sfilmeyer 1y agoI'm a man, and had wonderful experiences with my many (mostly male) roommates, with only occasional hiccups. Saying adult men cannot live together seems pretty excessive.
- micromacrofoot 1y agothey can but it's inherently riskier, especially with a woman involved
- mock-possum 1y agoYou are basically dead wrong about adult men not being able to live together. I don’t know where you’re getting your information from, but I am an adult man who has lived most of his adult life with other adult men, and I have fucking loved it. I spent my 20s living with two of my best male friends and those were some of the best years of my life! Plus, I know you probably don’t mean it this way, but - your phrasing basically invalidates every same-sex partnership. Again, here I have spent the last ten years living with my partner, and we are both of us adult men. Clearly adult men can live together. I think that maybe you just need to meet better men - your beliefs about gender stink.
- cpach 1y agoI can relate a lot to this. For most of the years between leaving home and meeting my wife I had at least 1 room-mate. I enjoyed it. Living alone is very boring IMHO.
- derektank 1y ago>With six roommates, I would cook a couple dishes a week. Every meal would be multi course, with different people making salad, protein, sides, and maybe mixing up some drinks for the cooks. I've never split meals with any of my roommates when I had them, and I cringe at the idea of asking them to accommodate my own idiosyncratic tastes. I, naturally, have lived on my own since I could possibly afford it. But I can see why this would be a huge benefit if you are so inclined to shared meal prep. This article also makes a strong case for repealing laws outlawing SRO buildings, which can be designed to better accommodate shared cooking and socializing spaces than a building of 1 bedroom apartments.
- ghaff 1y agoIn school, with roommates/housemates, we would very seldom do shared meals (where one person basically prepped the meal) and I do pot-lucks with friends today. But it's not the normal thing. People have different schedules and preferences.
- ghaff 1y agoI'd add that there was an activity crowd that I'd eat (Chinese) out with on a very regular basis in school but we never cooked together.
- lelandfe 1y agoYeah, if you’ve got really hard opinions about what you like, it might be tough. It might also be a way to expand your palette though? I’m living with a Swiss girl and an Argentinian guy right now and am enjoying the new foods I’m introduced to.
- sdenton4 1y agoI lived in communal houses for a very long time. The best was something like this - we had communal meals four nights a week, and everyone had one cooking night. The other nights, you know you just show up and there's food. It's way easier to scale a single meal up to more people than it is to cook a smaller meal every night. And as folks cook together and rotate around, they learn and cook better. And you end up with more variety, as you experience the full gamut of idiosyncratic tastes. :)
- OutOfHere 1y agoThe article is clearly for a class of women who want to stay single forever, not for men. Most people should be focusing more on having stable relationships with a partner, not into roommates.
- mock-possum 1y agoWhy women? It’s written by a woman, certainly, who does offer the disclaimer, > I understand not everyone is wired like I am. Why not men? Why would a man not prefer to live with roommates, to split meals and chores and have easy companionship for a cup of tea and a movie at the end of the day? On the other hand, why should a man not want to be naked around the house, play trashy music at 7am, and bring someone home for the night without worrying about roommates? What does men and women have to do with any of this, in other words? You’re the second comment to explicitly mention gender and I do not see the connection.
- ipaddr 1y agoWomen are more likely to pair up for safety and community reasons.
- OutOfHere 1y agoWomen can be more social, whereas men can be more independent, taken to their respective extremes. Men don't like having to explain their behavior to someone, or want to tolerate anyone else's behavior. Being social was cool back in college, but not since past the age of 35. Men are fighting hard to improve their resumes/businesses/finances/health, and as such their lives, and they don't need or value idle time spent with roommates coming in the way. The role of a provider weighs more heavily on men.
- netsharc 1y agoSo is this behavior defined by societal rules and expectations, or by the genders' own nature? I'm a man, and as I get older I feel like the idea of men having to be less social and aggressive (e.g. the part about not tolerating stuff - or the opposite idea that women are fine with suffering in silence while someone has poor behavior instead of speaking up) harms us.
- sunscream89 1y agoI have lived in “intentional communities” and attest that mature and self capable men and women of all ages can and do live excellently in compact (from [augmented] single home suburban dwellings of a dozen *or more) to ranch style configurations. It is truly a new level of human excellence. The Epicurean garden of our age. This has never worked without the WORK involved. People clean, people have a forum for regular discussion, people have responsibilities, and people come and go. If you want a better life sometimes you have to game up with a better self. * Once 20 in a single Venice Beach home (close enough to the beach.) there were old VW buses parked in the back yard and rooms with bunks, people paid $400-600/mo. It was wild yet it was civilized. Obviously city shut it down after years working well. It all comes down to good house rule and willful participation.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Aurornis 1y ago> It is truly a new level of human excellence. The Epicurean garden of our age. > This has never worked without the WORK involved. People clean, people have a forum for regular discussion, people have responsibilities, and people come and go. > If you want a better life sometimes you have to game up with a better self. I think it’s funny to hear the concept of teaming up with other people, putting in the work, sharing responsibilities, and having discussions among the community unit is described as “a new level of human excellence” Because this is just describing what it’s like to have a family and a household. Many people do this. A lot of this thread feels like single people reinventing the concept of family to fill a void. That’s fine, of course. The funny part is being it described as a new and novel form of human excellence
- danaris 1y ago> this is just describing what it’s like to have a family and a household It's describing what it's like to do so well. IME, most people do not approach family with sufficient intentionality to achieve what sunscream89 describes. At best, they settle into a comfortable set of unconscious agreements and patterns that work OK for each other. At worst, those patterns cause constant friction that eventually tear them apart—or cause them to go to therapy and start adding intentionality to the relationship(s).
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 1y agoIn the US, is it concerning when a "grown man" in his 30s or 40s and beyond still lives with roommates, when dating and trying to attract a mate? Is there an expectation that you should be displaying a certain lifestyle that will attract a partner, and if you're living with a bunch of roommates, you're failing to do that? I believe that's not the case in many other countries in the world, but what about the US?
- OutOfHere 1y agoAbsolutely. All else being equal, a man over the age of 30 without his own residence is basically undatable (as per unsaid expectations in the US).
- hnthrow90348765 1y agoTreating this as a universal standard of women for men is probably more harmful to anyone's dating chances than having roommates or not.
- kdamica 1y agoEspecially in high cost areas like NY or SF, it’s completely normal for adults, even highly successful ones, to have roommates. I personally know plenty of men who had roommates up until they moved in with the person they would end up marrying.
- Aurornis 1y agoThe US is a huge and diverse country. People in it have diverse expectations. It’s also going to depend on the location. Having roommates in a very high cost city is no big deal at all.
- unclad5968 1y agoIn the cities I've lived, this is standard yes. For better or for worse, a man that isn't displaying capability to provide for himself is typically less attractive than one who is. Again, this is my experience. I'm not making an argument for or against.
- 1y ago
- GregDavidson 1y agoI'm a geek and have shared my home with housemates for 50 years. When I was poor and when I was prosperous. When I was married and when I was not. It's almost always been good for me, including for growth in my social intelligence. It was especially valuable when my wife died. Some of my housemates have been challenging. More became close friends. Living together people take their masks off. Quality social connections have been invaluable to me.
- cowcity 1y ago[flagged]
- llbbdd 1y agoDid you reply to the right thread?
- cowcity 1y agoDefinitely
- illiac786 1y agoHmmm, but if you’re the landlord and you only care about money as you imply, why wouldn’t you move out and just rent, mrather than dealing with roommates?
- cowcity 1y agoLandlords have much more power. Usually more money too, but always more power. Source: I am a landlord and I could temporarily destroy either of my roommates' livelihoods at the drop of a dime whenever I please. As a result, they are basically my permanent friends until they save up enough to move out. The difference between me and others in my position is I understand these are material relationships more than social relationships, and the only way to change that is not being the landlord. When Marxists want to get rid of landlords, this is what they mean. They simply want more social relationships rather than material relationships. That's why it's called socialism.
- nytesky 1y agoGolden Girls!
- gedy 1y agoTo each their own, but I wanted nothing MORE than to finally have my own place throughout life (first a bedroom, then a dorm room, then apt). It was a real motivator, and it's not that I didn't have decent relationships with roommates or family.
- Aurornis 1y agoThe talk about having roommates into your 30s, 40s, and 50s to be able to split the load, avoid loneliness, socialize more, find motivation to do things with others, and have interesting conversations with people in different life situations is all interesting and good. Certainly something a single person should at least consider. But it also feels funny to read this as a someone with a family at home, because a healthy family home life checks all of these boxes and more. I’m sure someone will come along to comment that not all families are this good at being friendly and splitting the load of cooking and such, but I think you’d find that most roommate situations aren’t splitting the load of cooking and making meals together like this at a much higher rate.
- socalgal2 1y agoIt might be that a person with roommates is more likely to be introduced to more people and therefore more likely to find someone to marry, than a person without roommates. No idea if there is any data on that. My own experience is that when I had roommates they would invite people over or invite me to activities where I'd meet new people with very little effort on my part. Vs when I've lived alone it felt less far less likely to meet new people without more effort.
- sitzkrieg 1y agohaving a family or home is no longer affordable either way.
- Jhsto 1y agoMy personal anecdote is that living with roommates while doing a PhD has been the worst living experience. That is, I'm rather jealous how the author ended up with a functioning setup and I wonder what attributes to this. Sometimes I wonder if the main cause for my challenges is that living with other PhD students is a competitive environment of time (constant prisoner dilemma situations where nobody cooperates to maximize their time to work), or if it's the mix of cultural backgrounds (I don't know how to get them to cooperate).
- deadghost 1y agoI generally like having roommates, but when they're bad, they're BAD. I've also never done the communal cooking thing. Either they don't cook, are bad at cooking, or have dubious food hygiene. I haven't met any potential partners through them either. I might take a walk or swim with them but I sure as hell didn't get OP's experience.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- netsharc 1y agoMakes me think humankind has been enshittified too: crappy parents/educational system creating more crappy humans, instead of "high quality" ones. But then again, I always realize how far civilization has come when I enter a public toilet: not far at all. I look around my messy apartment and realize I'd also be a not-great flatmate.
- jlarocco 1y agoI think personality plays a big role. If it works for you, great! But living with a group of people sounds like hell to me. When I go home, I want to be alone and relax. I don't want to deal with other people's shit, and I don't want to bother them with mine. It's so unappealling to me, I would live out of my car before I gave in and tried living with roommates.
- illiac786 1y agoWell you have your room for your alone time, it’s like in a family. I loved it personally, I made amazing connections, I couldn’t get enough of it. Couldn’t figure out a way to have kids and stay in a shared apartment unfortunately, although I know it’s possible. so that phase of my life is over – and I miss it. But it’s a matter of personal preference for sure.
- kaikai 1y agoI’m an introvert and that’s part of why I prefer to live communally. When I live alone it’s very very easy for me to not interact with another person in real life for days at a time. That’s not good for my mental health in the long term, even if it’s “easier” in the short-term.
- Aaargh20318 1y agoSame here. I’m autistic and so is my best friend. When I had to move out of the dorms after graduation I knew it was a bad idea to live alone. I’m very comfortable being alone and if I wouldn’t share a home I would probably end up completely isolated. We’ve been sharing a house for two decades and it’s working for us.
- wussboy 1y agoI think it's important to call out the difference between "what I prefer" and "what is good for me". We understand this fully in many aspects of our lives (from "My body prefers to do heroin" to "I prefer not to exercise but I do it because it's good for me"). I see a lot of comments here along the lines of "I prefer to live alone because roommates are a pain in the ass", but I think there might be a lot of value to doing this because it's good for you. Living with other people forces us to corral our worst tendencies, to break out of virtual worlds to engage in the real one, to form bonds that will force us to grow and change. I think it's strange that our preference in this area, but not many others, could be so dominant over what is good for us.
- pentamassiv 1y agoI think so too. It helps to form good habits. If you have a roommate for example, you can't leave your dirty dishes everywhere and need to clean it as soon as you are done. You can learn a lot from your roommates too. One of my ex flatmates was super crafty and I got a different perspective on things thanks to that. I used to live in a flat with one flatmate who changed every half a year or so because they were usually interns. Never knew them before they moved in but 90% of the time we became friends. I liked that they changed after a while so I was never stuck with a bad roomate. I don't recommend the other way around. If you have a good friend it's more likely to notice their annoying habits so there is little upside but in a worse case you can damage the friendship.
- em-bee 1y agoin a worse case you can damage the friendship if your friendship can't survive that, it wasn't a good friendship to begin with.
- isaacremuant 1y agoThe complaint from people who do live with shitty roommates is precisely that they DONT do that thing you claim people "have to do".
- isaacremuant 1y ago
- Bradlinc 1y agoI had a roommate for the first time again in my early 30s after getting divorced. Looking back now I enjoyed it. I felt that I had to grow up and get my own place again after our lease was up. I think this was true, at the time I did have a two year old daughter and we were living illegally in a warehouse. Not the best way to raise a small child. However, if I could go back, I think I would have found another communal living space. My roommate on the other hand may have more mixed feeling about it given the screaming two year old and my constant cooking of monkfish… which was later barred from the menu.
- nis0s 1y agoHard pass, most people are annoying and messy. Living with people also introduces other human issues, like people getting jealous of you, or trying to exploit you. If one has to have roommates, be super discerning and stingy with your trust.
- tennisflyi 1y agoThe problem is finding dependable/clean/nice roommates…
- w10-1 1y agoIf it's a great house or location or deal, people will stay notwithstanding conflict. When housemates go from single to partnered, it's an unsolvable conflict because housemates are not the priority and the partner is mostly unwanted in the house. If you as a single person join a house with committed partners, you'll forever have to accept what they want. When people disagree, the stakes of one's living space is typically higher than the problem, which the aggressive are happy to hostage to get what they want. Housemates learn a lot about you that you don't really want to be public, but they're not committed to keeping your secrets and might even use them against you. Housemates can start depending on you emotionally. Having friendly housemates can reduce the pressure to find a partner, precisely when othees are partnering. Your choices only get more narrow from delaying. Long-term living together requires commitment, mutual respect, and effective governance that can't be abused. All that is quite the opposite from the usual drivers: convenience, shared cost, and lightweight human contact. Worse, shared housing is always better and cheaper than buying, so after decades of living well you'll still be a renter (unable to control your destiny) rather than an owner. You might think you'll share for temporary situations, but not make it a lifestyle. But the more you get used to it, the less tolerance you'll have for the sacrifices necessary for a committed partner and home equity. What would your future self want you to do?
- _alternator_ 1y agoJust want to point out that having a cheaper living situation doesn’t preclude homeownership later—it makes it more feasible. I’ve lived in SF (communally) for about 10 years now. The first 5 years I lived here help me build up my savings, and then a housemate, my wife, and I bought a building in the city that now houses 8 adults. I definitely could not have afforded this paying for a one bedroom in the city, and living with roommates meant I had lots of time to find people who would be willing to go in on a house with me! But even if this weren’t the case, over 5 years we probably saved ~200k in rent. Putting that into the stock market would typically yield much better returns than owning a home (which is typically a wash after mortgage interest is factored in).
- thunderfork 1y ago[dead]
- 5pl1n73r 1y ago> avocado, olive, and coconut oil; ten basic spices; honey, maple syrup, apple cider vinegar, soy sauce, miso, and almond butter. This is what happens when you use Google for recipes. And a good hint that this article does not represent the average demographic; most people outside of her's do not want room mates good reason.
- andrewrn 1y agoI suppose it may be luck, but the ~15 roommates I’ve had over the years became, at worst, neutral acquaintance types or, at best, my best friends of all time. I’ve never had any of the common horror stories. Come to think of it actually, I’ve never formed very strong bonds without anyone outside of childhood who I didn’t live with. I remember hearing years ago that the ingredients for a strong friendship are (1) serendipitous, unplanned encounters, (2) vulnerability, (3) sustained time spent together. Housemates seem like the only modern avenue to this for adults. Critical caveat is having the temple of my own room to retreat to. With that, I love having housemates.
- isaacremuant 1y ago> I remember hearing years ago that the ingredients for a strong friendship are (1) serendipitous, unplanned encounters, (2) vulnerability, (3) sustained time spent together. Housemates seem like the only modern avenue to this for adults The ingredients for a strong friendship are doing things together without forcing it and contact surviving when things change (e.g. geographical move, shared activity ending, family change). The fact that you needed such a constant school like, unavoidable presence speaks to your own lack of sustained activities and communication in other areas. You haven't made friends through sports, hobbies, shared courses or even work? Only by 24/7 living with them? You may want to change that. It may seem like it requires more effort at first but it's not that different and lasts beyond the see each other every day phase.
- andrewrn 1y agoTo clarify, the frequent encounters of a housemate situation hasn't been required to sustain friendships for me, but instead to get "escape velocity," if you will. The great friends I made of former housemates still keep in frequent contact with via phone calls, etc. You said "doing things together without forcing it" is important. That's precisely what I mean with housemates. In the storm of people's busy lives and moods, living with someone just provides so much more effortless surface area for bonding than pre-arranged, formal events to do sports or a hobby.
- duttish 1y agoTwo thoughts I think a larger house like she's living in makes it a lot easier to mitigate "the bad room mate" problem mentioned in a lot of comments. They likely have some filtering and process to kick someone out if they turn out weird. And recruitment is hopefully easier if you have 4 other people looking for a 5th than posting an ad somewhere. This does seem like a potential solution for the male loneliness epidemic. I think it would be harder to check out if you're around other people. Their house seems _very_ women-styled with cooking dance parties, twerking in the garden and the ingredients. But that's just one house, each house has their own style. Before I met my partner I looked into communal living spaces, and if this doesn't work out I might do so again, and give it a shot. I don't think living on my own is good for me long term. I get too isolated.
- geverett 1y agoAuthor of the post here - fwiw all the houses I've lived in have had a good gender mix, though it's true none of the men wanted to join for the hip hop dance workout. In general though the men have been the better cooks! I wanted to note that a lot of houses I've lived in have had couples. Two of our housemates in PR were a married couple who rented out the apartment they owned to come live with us. The husband was more extroverted than the wife and loved the company - and the wife loved that we kept him entertained and she got the room to herself more often :) All this to say I simply think it's great to live with (good) roommates, whether you're male, female, single, coupled, or anything else.
- NoPicklez 1y agoFrom my experience going to boarding school, living on campus at University and living with housemates for almost a decade and having an enjoyable time throughout. So much of this experience comes down to who you end up living with. I've been lucky to live with friends with fairly similar interests and career drives where it matters, and that changes the experience. If you enjoy the people you live with outside of just the fact you're living together, it changes everything. If you have those things you get to live with people whom you enjoy their company, talk about topics, do activities together, build further relationships with others and benefit financially from shared costs that can help you build a future. Absolutely you will need to be able to share and cohabit which can be more challenging as you grow up wanting your own space.
- lazyeye 1y agoI wonder if housing could be designed in such a way as to provide the best of both worlds. Maybe 2 private rooms with external access sharing a communal area for shared meals if desired.