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The Rising Cost of Child and Pet Day Care
- tayo42 1y agoChild care is incredibly expensive, idk how anyone who isn't incredibly rich does it. Like 1k a month to get your child watched for 3 half days a week. Who has a spare 1-2k laying around per month? Also annoying this article introduced Baumol effect without mentioning what it is and just plugging a their book.
- JTbane 1y agoIt seems like the childcare companies recognize that it's either one parent quits their full-time job or pays them.
- bombcar 1y agoQuit your full time job and do home childcare!
- ndjeosibfb 1y agowhy is this always presented as a bad thing?
- bombcar 1y agoBecause people are deathly afraid of poopmachines for some reason.
- pempem 1y agoBecause when the person who quits their job becomes in some other way disenfranchised or their partner is unable to work for some reason, there is no safety net, no savings and no established career they can find their way back into. Healthcare is tied to a job. Retirement is tied to a job. Social security is a joke. etc. etc. etc.
- mjohn 1y agoThat's a bit unfair. The Baumol effect is well known to most people in the author's audience. If you had clicked on the link to his book you would have found out that it's available for free: https://www.mercatus.org/students/research/books/why-are-prices-so-damn-high https://www.mercatus.org/students/research/books/why-are-pri...
- jmclnx 1y agoYes it is rising and how would one stop it ? In reality there is no way to stop it outside of what the article recommends. Plus this also applies to many other labor intensive industries. People who work in these industries want to be paid and deserve to be paid enough to live on, so the money needs to come from somewhere. Lets pretend a way is found to make things real cheap, doing that means many people will not be able to purchase other items, thus harming the bottom line of many other industries. Add to that the very rich is hording wealth. It seems today's economic society is racing to a big crash, unless a way is found to release that wealth to subsidize these activities. I think the wealth is there, but it is locked up by the very rich.
- moomoo11 1y agoThere’s a lot of PE activity in this sector imo. They buy out all these established places and jack up the prices. It goes from calling them to book to some polished booking portal. It’s mostly catered towards those who can afford it, so the 200k base SWE x 2 family can afford the 2x jacked up prices, and they continue increasing the prices every 1-2 years.
- blakesterz 1y agoThat was my first thought as well. I know PE is famously eating up Vets, I wonder if they've started on these too?
- andrepd 1y agoIt's so great living in the ~best~ only system for organising the economy. Working people can't afford homes or starting a family, but at least we are generating amazing value for shareholders.
- orangecat 1y agoWorking people can't afford homes Always amusing that this is the go-to argument against free markets, when the major cause of housing unaffordability is that governments prevent housing from being built.
- csa 1y ago> Always amusing that this is the go-to argument against free markets, when the major cause of housing unaffordability is that governments prevent housing from being built. I’m not sure where you live, but in my little corner of California, this is not the major problem. The bottleneck is builders. There are requests from local government for affordable housing all the time, but builders earn more on the higher end stuff. The governments are starting to do workarounds by bundling high end developments with affordable housing, so I hope that works moving forward. Source: My buddy who is a general contractor. I don’t know how this works, but he has pointed out local examples to me.
- goda90 1y ago> Many explanations have been offered for rising child care costs. The Institute for Family Studies, for example, shows that prices rise with regulations like “group sizes, child-to-staff ratios, required annual training hours, and minimum educational requirements for teachers and center directors.” I don’t deny that regulation raises prices—places with more regulation have higher costs—but I don’t think that explains the slow, steady price increase over time. As with health care and education, the better explanation is the Baumol effect, as I argued in my book (with Helland) Why Are the Prices So Damn High? While I agree regulation probably doesn't explain the whole price increase, I wonder if governments can do a better job preventing regulation from causing price increases without cutting corners on the regulation itself. Subsidize training for example. Make the child-staff ratios and group sizes a more dynamic factor based on age and needs. Maybe set aside funds to subsidize targeted special needs child care so the kids with fewer needs can be cared for more cheaply(I imagine this is controversial just like schools having separate special needs classes was). Of course there's the catch all approach of adding childcare to the public schools budget and rolling the cost into taxes.
- bglazer 1y agoThe article makes very clear that costs are rising for "pet day care" just as quickly as for real day care for children. This can not be explained by regulation, as pet day care is far far less regulated compared to daycare for children.
- lantry 1y ago> Subsidize training for example This just spreads the cost across all taxpayers, instead of just the people consuming the service. Not to say that's a bad thing, just saying that it's not really "reducing the cost of regulation". > Make the child-staff ratios and group sizes a more dynamic factor based on age and needs. At least in my state, this is already the case. for infants, 1 adult per 6 children; increasing the ratio as they get older, up to 1 adult for 18 children when they're 4. I don't think you're wrong that there are ways to reduce the burden of regulation, but I think we overestimate how much "low hanging fruit" there really is here. The common-sense, obvious, uncontroversial solutions are usually already in place
- exasperaited 1y ago[flagged]
- Klonoar 1y agoThe label is shit, but I'd lump things like dog _boarding_ in and that has absolutely skyrocketed in price in recent years. It's not something I'd directly compare to child care costs but it's not insignificant if you have pets you care about.
- SoftTalker 1y agoIf you have pets you care about that much, take them with you or don't do the things that require you to be away. So much is about "I want" and refusing to accept reality. If you are away from the house for 12 hours a day then having a socially intelligent pet such as a dog is an experience you will simply have to do without in your life. If you want a pet, get some fish or a hamster.
- Klonoar 1y ago...the hell? The discussion was about cost, and it wasn't an invitation for your strange take on what pet ownership looks like. Go spout that junk elsewhere. I will continue to do things that require me to be away for periods of time, and I will continue to pay whatever I have to so that things work well. I feel no shame about this and the dogs are healthy as can be.
- ectospheno 1y agoSome people have pets they love. Some people have jobs they need that have long hours. The intersection of those sets is not empty. I guess I’m glad your life is so great that this isn’t a problem for you. Some grace for people not you may serve you well in life.
- rkomorn 1y agoMy dog would bark if we left her alone. Wouldn't make a difference to us since we wouldn't hear it, but I refuse to subject my neighbors to it. I've had neighbors that clearly had no such concerns.
- monkeyelite 1y agoIt’s expensive because people are willing to pay a lot for it. Complaints about child care costs never end in “so I stopped paying them”.
- WesleyLivesay 1y agoNo, but it might cause some people to say "so I am not having kids"
- makeitdouble 1y ago> “so I stopped paying them”. This was exactly what I got from a colleague about a decade ago. Day care was so expensive it was eating half of her salary, so she quit, stopped paying for day care and stayed at home instead. A lot of couple do the math and end up in the same place, where working their ass off to earn more, just to pay more doesn't make sense.
- bombcar 1y agoExactly this. And those people never complain about daycare costs because they’re not paying them at all. And for awhile the market looks good as the prices can rise as the “cheapest” leave. But eventually it will collapse.
- lesuorac 1y ago> A lot of couple do the math and end up in the same place, where working their ass off to earn more, just to pay more doesn't make sense. I think if you're breaking even on daycare and salary then you're still coming out economically ahead to keep working. Daycare costs stop once you enroll the kid into school. Typically salaries scale with years of experience so you're forfeiting ~7-9 years of salary growth by stopping work. That said, there are non-economic reasons to raise your kids ...
- makeitdouble 1y ago> I think if you're breaking even on daycare and salary then you're still coming out economically ahead to keep working. That's the traditional wisdom, with the assumption that consecutive working years will result in a more lucrative career, which balances the child care costs on the long run. That assumption breaks depending on how much you pay for day care (including meals, potentially an additional baby sitter etc) and how much you expect your career to last in that company, or if your skills don't devaluate so much you can get back to work some other place after a few years. For more and more people, a 3-4+ years career gap isn't that big of a deal, "I raised my kid" is a fully accepted explaination, and their company won't value their continuous work that much either.
- legitster 1y agoA lot of the "regulations" baked into childcare aren't really going to move the needle - the inefficiencies are baked into the model. I don't care how lax your state is, you're not going to run a successful childcare center with 100 kids and 1 caretaker. So the cost of childcare is always going to be linked strongly to median prevailing wages. While I think Baumol may have something to say here, I think we should listen to Henry George a bit more. The lion's share of overhead for a daycare goes towards its real estate costs. Similarly, it's a growing share of cost of living for both the workers and the customers. And as Henry George pointed out, the cost of housing goes up without creating economic value for anyone.
- J_Shelby_J 1y agoThe knock on effect of high housing costs is driving force behind price increases and declining quality of service everywhere. It’s an absurd situation here in California, where we are some of the richest people in history, but because the cost of housing so high, the price of everything is driven to the breaking point… meanwhile, the important jobs required for a nicely ran country are too expensive to afford and so our transit, healthcare, service industry, etc is awful.
- bryanlarsen 1y agoDaycare is expensive even when located in places where they get free or heavily subsidized rent, like church basements.
- aaomidi 1y agoThe people working there don’t live in the church
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago> the cost of housing goes up without creating economic value for anyone This is kinda wrong. It does create value for the people who are loaning out the money that the working class uses to purchase the houses. Of course, in this context that value goes straight to the hands of bankers and never leaves but it's worth noting that this situation that the working class hates happens to be rather beneficial to the capital class.
- dukeofdoom 1y agoMaybe property taxes. Cities keep bumping these up. But also the intersection of people that neet multiple sets of requirements approaches zero pretty quickly. I watched a guy that's a professional filmer, and he explained that actually the circle he's in is pretty small. So while the set of people that want to do his career is fairly large. That people that jumped through all the requirmeny hoops is like filter. So he has no problems finding work because of it
- skeezyboy 1y agowage increases not matching price increases... ah yes the american dream. simply put, youre poor, youre country has conned you, people live in better conditions all over the world.
- soulofmischief 1y agoWho exactly is this comment directed towards? Americans can't help the fact that they were born in America. Also, you meant to say "your" and did not add an apostrophe to your contractions.
- skeezyboy 1y agoumm, americans? its true though. how can there be so many people struggling financially in the richest country on the planet?
- soulofmischief 1y agoExtreme wealth inequality and a corrupt system. But just calling a citizenry poor and gloating about how many countries elsewhere have a better quality of life on average, or better infrastructure and use of tax dollars, doesn't seem to be very productive. We were born into this predicament.
- skeezyboy 1y agowhy are you taking it personally?
- 8200_unit 1y agoWe've lost the fundamental stability of a time when one income could comfortably sustain a family. There has been a systemic shift that undermines family well-being.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoThat stability existed due to half of the population (women) not having the option to attain high paying jobs.
- 8200_unit 1y agoWhile it's true that women's professional opportunities were limited in the past, I disagree that this was the sole or even primary reason for single-income stability. My grandparents' generation, for example, often saw one parent (usually the father) working a manufacturing or union job that paid enough to cover a mortgage, raise several children, and afford basics, even with the mother not working outside the home. The purchasing power of those wages was simply far greater.
- clove 1y agoNow they don't have the option to be housewives unless they actively seek out a rich husband. Who benefits? (There is only one correct answer): 1. Families. 2. Women. 3. Corporations.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoWomen who wanted financial freedom so that they have negotiating power benefited.
- BobaFloutist 1y agoNot having the option of being a housewife is a low cost for having the option to be literally anything but a housewife.
- Tadpole9181 1y agoThe workforce saw an explosion of productivity, and women added upwards of 100% more members of the workforce. The problem is that all of that wealth went to the billionaires and the rest of us got the bones in the scrap pile. Now we can't even raise our children because we need to work, but we cannot even not raise our children because it costs more than we make.
- secabeen 1y agoAnother important factor in many states is the drive towards living wages across the board. For decades, child care (and probably pet care) was done by low-status immigrants and women, often at wages not sufficient to live alone or raise a family on. In more recent years, we've pushed up minimum wages and allowed not just white men to seek and obtain jobs that do pay more. It's overall good that we shrunk the under-classes compared to 100 years ago, but that does mean that if your business model depends on taking advantage of low-status people, it's not sustainable anymore, and you have to raise prices.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago>For decades, child care (and probably pet care) was done by low-status immigrants This is not correct.
- nisegami 1y agoPerhaps the "barrel children" concept can be utilized within countries like the united states where the parents work in urban centers to provide for the children living in lower cost rural areas?
- egypturnash 1y agoI wonder how much of the need for both of these industries would vanish if more families had one stay-at-home parent.
- showerst 1y agoWe send our daughter to a daycare that has a number of families so wealthy that one or both parents wouldn’t have to work. They still do daycare because many people want careers, and/or because they think the socialization and environment diversity is good for their kids.
- bombcar 1y agoObviously you’re not going to meet the families that don’t use daycare … at daycare.
- pempem 1y agoYou're asking if ~35% of people currently working stop, would childcare and pet care as industries begin to disappear I think, definitely. I also think there are several knock-on effects that might take the better part of a generation, if not two, to adjust.
- fsckboy 1y agothe Baumol effect isn't an effect, it just describes a narrow case of the Substitution Effect. Price of beef goes up, you substitute pork and chicken, and those prices go up. You may think of yourself as a Computer Programmer but if Ditchdiggers get paid 3x as much in your area, you'd put Ditch Digging on your resume. To get you to program computers again, they'd have to pay you more.
- mschuster91 1y ago> Still, the basic truth remains: if we want more affordable day care—for kids or pets—we need to use less of what’s expensive: skilled labor. That means either importing more people to do the work, or investing harder in ways to do it with fewer hands. Both has serious problems. #1 is politically untenable (unless, of course, continuing the status quo of turning a blind eye towards employers abusing undocumented people to drive down wages), and #2 is fundamentally impossible until we gain AGI. It's bad enough when bad AI deletes production databases [1] - I'd raise hell when an "AI cat care" provider would kill my cat, and probably engage in some sort of self-justice should an "AI child care" provider kill or maim my child. [1] https://www.heise.de/en/news/Artificial-intelligence-Vibe-coding-service-Replit-deletes-production-database-10499597.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Artificial-intelligence-Vibe-co...
- charlie90 1y agoweird, I thought the labor theory of value was "debunked".
- ponector 1y agoDaycare and basically all child non-entertainment services (health and education) should be heavily subsidized. It's a new taxpayer, all money will be repaid tenfold.
- bombcar 1y agoApparently much cheaper to simply import a fully grown taxpayer instead.
- akimbostrawman 1y agoInfinite money glitch with no downside??? Simply never stop importing people I'm sure there won't be any issues at all!
- donjoe0 1y agoLike running out of unskilled people to import, especially in these times of rapid emancipation of countries that used to be forcefully held down in an undeveloped state so they could be used precisely as reservoirs of natural resources and cheap labor, to be tapped at will. Witness the collapse of 200 years of "economic theory" in the White Racist West that was basically just some shiny wrapping over the doctrine of "well we will just rob all those other countries that can't defend themselves".
- msgodel 1y agoMore and more you can get the most value out of just attending to your own problems rather than specializing and outsourcing.