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In ideal world international peacekeeping forces would be deployed in Gaza. The peace and two state solution could only be enforced by imposing severe sanctions
by alkyon 1y ago
In ideal world international peacekeeping forces would be deployed in Gaza. The peace and two state solution could only be enforced by imposing severe sanctions on Israel including possibility of aerial NATO strikes like in the former Yugoslavia.
- tiahura 1y ago[flagged]
- wds 1y agoAssuming the entirety of history began on October 7th, 2023, this is true.
- hersko 1y agoGo back further and it is more of the same. They fight and lose. Rinse and repeat.
- wds 1y agoYes, I am aware of the Nakba, and how Palestinians fight to keep their land and lose.
- anonfordays 1y agoHas there ever been another group of people that have lost so many existential wars in a row but still demand they keep their land?
- neonnoodle 1y agothe First Nations of North America
- exe34 1y agoDo they keep bombing Washington?
- aspenmayer 1y agoThey managed to hold onto Alcatraz for longer than anyone expected. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Alcatraz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Alcatraz
- lern_too_spel 1y agoHow do you define this group of people? Most Palestinians have more of the blood of Abraham than the European Jews who displaced them. The idea that the Jews fled Palestine after the Romans conquered it is a myth that can be verified by genetic testing. Many stayed and Hellenized and then converted to Christianity and then converted to Islam. Now these people won't do the rational thing and "convert" back to Judaism to continue to stay in that land because of Pascal's wager and lack of education to see through it. For that, they have their land taken, are excluded from participating in the democracy that governs the country they live in, are starved, and are dehumanized.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- lern_too_spel 1y agohttps://blogs.timesofisrael.com/dammi-israeli-the-genetic-origins-of-the-palestinians/ https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/dammi-israeli-the-genetic-or... "On balance it is fair to state that Palestinians are in fact ethnically Israelite. The divide between the Israelis and Palestinians is on religious and linguistic lines only."
- immibis 1y agoMeanwhile, the current Israelis are mostly descended from Europeans (e.g. Germany, fleeing the Holocaust) and not from Israelites.
- Workaccount2 1y agoFor most of the kids falling over themselves in this conflict, history between the two nations began October 8th 2023. For the adults that run the world and been around 50+ years watching this shit, they just want it to be over, and don't really care who wins. At this point Palestine has no cards left and no friends helping them. They have lost, and the adults want them to go away without human-shielding themselves to dust.
- lern_too_spel 1y agoGo away where?
- Workaccount2 1y agoIran. Israel would happily pay for first class cruises and flights for everyone.
- lern_too_spel 1y agoIran would not accept millions of refugees following a different religion (Sunni) from the dominant one (Shia) in its theocracy. Palestinians would not accept transport as payment for stolen property.
- Workaccount2 1y agoMaybe they should have thought about that before being their #1 sponsor. But really any of their friends in the neighborhood should be willing to take them in.
- lern_too_spel 1y agoThey're not the ones who took their property. Why should they have to pay to compensate them? Also, friend doesn't seem like the appropriate word to use here. Were Americans friends of the Contras?
- 1y ago
- tiahura 1y agoI was referring to the 47 War, 48 War, 67 War, 1987–1993 First Intifada, 2000–2005 Second Intifada, …
- quickthrowman 1y agoHistory is a funny thing, now that you mention it. Should we start in 1948, when all of Israel’s neighbors invaded simultaneously? Or one of the other times Israel was invaded by their neighbors? Should we go back further and blame the Ottoman Empire for collapsing and causing a power vacuum in the region?
- wds 1y agoLet's go back one further to 1947 where there was no Israel, and it was all Palestine.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> where there was no Israel, and it was all Palestine A British colony. Taken from the Ottomans.
- quickthrowman 1y agoDo you mean the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine, administered by the British between 1920-1948 after the Ottoman Empire collapsed? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
- cholantesh 1y agoThey mean the name that has been used for the region for much of human history.
- quickthrowman 1y agoHow is that relevant? Yes, the name Palestine is derived from the Philistines who used to inhabit the area 3500 years ago. The region has been urbanized for 7-9k years and inhabited by many different groups. Jews, Greeks, Romans, Muslims, and I’m sure there’s more. It has an exceedingly complex history.
- 1y ago
- cholantesh 1y agoThe US scaffolding the vast majority of the IDF's offensive apparatus, the EU pumping 70 billion € into its economy, multiple ICC warrants, an open ICJ case, multiple G7 states weighing in on the question of Palestinian statehood, and Yemeni, Lebanese, and Iranian military cooperation are all rather odd shows of indifference.
- reverendsteveii 1y agowild cuz it was sorta the rest of the world that started the "Semitic tribal warfare"
- tiahura 1y agoSemitic tribal warfare has been a thing since the Mari–Ebla hundred years war c. 2500BC.
- reverendsteveii 1y agowell yeah if you claim a war is justified because there have been wars between people in that area then every war is justified because warfare has been happening everywhere there have been humans since humans arrived
- rmah 1y agoIsreal proposed international peacekeeping forces in Gaza, but Hamas has rejected it. If I may quote Izzat al-Rishq, a member of the Hamas political bureau, "We stress our people's rejection of the presence of any non-Palestinian actors on our land." [https://www.anews.com.tr/world/2024/04/02/hamas-says-no-to-international-peacekeeping-force-in-gaza https://www.anews.com.tr/world/2024/04/02/hamas-says-no-to-i...]. They only accept aid organizations.
- llm_nerd 1y ago>Isreal proposed international peacekeeping forces in Gaza This is a bit misleading. Israel proposed that it maintain absolute and total military control of Gaza, but that a "peacekeeping force" from three Arab nations, bizarrely to be controlled by the US, would "secure food distribution". Israel has absolutely zero intention of handing over control of Gaza, and has gone to extraordinary lengths to vilify and delegitimize every international organization at every turn. An actual peacekeeping force as described above would be about keeping Israel in check as much as ensuring Hamas doesn't re-appear.
- zdragnar 1y ago> Israel has absolutely zero intention of handing over control of Gaza, The charter for Hamas for years called for the total destruction of Israel. That's been recently removed, but their actions haven't changed. Why would any nation allow such a government to be their neighbor? The best that anyone could hope for would be a North / South Korea or CCP/KMT divide, but those only work because both sides share a common identity.
- cholantesh 1y agoIsraeli administration of Gaza preceded Hamas' foundation. Its administration of the West Bank is characterized by regular IDF incursions into its settlements where homes are demolished, residents are kidnapped and tortured without cause, and armed, escorted settlers are let loose to assault the same residents and loot their businesses. Hamas' founders were all born either in settlements that have been forcefully depopulated by Israel or in refugee camps that still exist today because they keep getting filled up by people who lived in those settlements. I imagine most people would be miffed by this set of circumstances.
- ihsw 1y ago[dead]
- ebiester 1y agoThis happened in the West Bank, not Gaza. But if you are talking about peacekeeping forces in Gaza, the West Bank, and Israel, I think there's a good argument for it.
- ponector 1y agoDo you want to be a part of those troops sent to control Hamas? Truth is no one wants to fight overseas anymore.
- alkyon 1y agoBoth Hamas and Isreal to enforce peace
- hersko 1y agoHow can anyone view October 7th footage and think that Hamas should survive.
- lostlogin 1y agoAnd how can anyone look at Gaza and think Israel should be allowed to carry on as it does? Someone needs to actually try and improve things.
- ponector 1y agoRuzzia is bombing Ukrainian cities to the ground. No countries are actively trying to stop them, just minor help to Ukraine to keep them afloat.
- js8 1y agoIs two-state solution possible? Just look at the map of the territories under palestinian control, they're bantustans. Israel/Palestine is factually one state, which simply doesn't accept half of its population as citizens. You could also say that "two-state solution" has been tried in 1948, but (for whatever reasons) didn't work out. So support for 2-state is just a form of delaying the inevitable. I am now firm believer in one-state solution as the most fair one. Peter Beinart has some good arguments in its favor. And I think it would be a poetic justice for all the racist settlers (or islamists) to have the people they hate as their neighbors.
- sjapkee 1y ago[flagged]
- falcor84 1y agoYou reminded me of this interview with Harlan Ellison that was making the rounds a while ago [0]. I think there's some kernel of truth there. I've heard a lot of people from both sides say that they prefer to die than to leave the land. So following up on Harlan's proposal, I would be in favour of the international community owning up to the situation and offering full asylum and permanent resettlement with a short-term path to citizenship to every single person living in Israel & Palestine who prefers to live than to stay there, and then just letting those who prefer to stay and kill each other to do so, until (hopefully) they sort out their differences and decide to declare peace and join the international community. [0] https://youtu.be/P6gtHQGbXmM https://youtu.be/P6gtHQGbXmM
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> the international community owning up to the situation and offering full asylum and permanent resettlement with a short-term path to citizenship to every single person living in Israel & Palestine who prefers to live than to stay there, and then just letting those who prefer to stay and kill each other This roughly describes the current situation. Israelis are internationally mobile. And while Palestinians are not, it’s hard to imagine enough of them emigrating to destabilise the current conflict conditions.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> international peacekeeping forces To the extent there is consensus among today’s superpower and regional powers, it’s that international peacekeepers don’t work. At best they delay while incubating a conflict.
- js8 1y agoActually, there are studies that show (by looking at past conflicts) that peacekeeping does work.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> there are studies that show (by looking at past conflicts) that peacekeeping does work They work for the people whose peace they're keeping. Their benefit to the benefactors is less clear. It's why they're becoming increasingly uncommon [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_peacekeeping_missions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_peaceke...
- Apocryphon 1y agoPeacekeeping worked in the former Yugoslavia and many other places. It's more like these days it seems like the international aspect is lacking; the consensus of the so-called world community has really been in shambles for the past two decades. I think the one time where unanimous cooperation existed was against Somali piracy in the early '10s.
- lostlogin 1y ago> international peacekeepers don’t work. What’s the solution then? We keep wringing our hands and saying it’s impossible?
- nradov 1y agoThere is no solution. It's an intractable problem. Violent conflicts between ethnic / sectarian / tribal groups have been a constant in that region for millennia. The only periods of (relative) peace have come when an external hegemon comes in and conquers everyone, and none of the current superpowers have any interest in doing that. Everyone will keep wringing their hands and nothing will really change. It's terrible but that's the reality.
- outside415 1y ago[dead]
- energy123 1y agoLike the peacekeeping troops sent into South Lebanon after UNSC Resolution 1701? Oh, you didn't know about that one? Maybe there's a reason Israel does not trust diplomacy anymore.
- igsomething 1y agoIn an ideal world none of the past 70 years of conflicts that led to this unrecoverable resentfulness would have happened. Unfortunately the only peaceful solution I can imagine is for Israel to let Gazans move to other Arab-world countries, let Israel annexate Gaza, and then imposing strict border controls and watches such that if Israel attempts any ethnic cleansing or illegal occupation they get severly sanctioned.
- lordnacho 1y ago> Gazans move to other Arab-world countries This is a problem for the neighbouring countries, isn't it? They don't want to deal with a bunch of new people any more than any other country does. > let Israel annexate Gaza This is just admitting that might makes right > and then imposing strict border controls... severly sanctioned You would need people to actually believe this Even so, this plan does not address the fact that both parties really really want to live on the same land. You might as well ask the Israelis why they aren't content to resettle some other place, they wouldn't accept it anymore than the Palestinians would.
- buyucu 1y agoWhy not the reverse? Israel is clearly the aggressor here, not Palestine. The only path to sustainable peace is to do to Israel what the world did to Germany after WW2: a complete destruction of the fascist Tel Aviv regime and the equivalent of the Nuremberg trials for top Israeli officials.
- immibis 1y agoThis would be about the 5th time your approach has been tried. Every time the result has been the same: Israel happily accepts your gift of land, expands, and conducts the same attacks against the next bit of land, violating all peace treaties. Why do you expect different results this time?
- cm2012 1y agoUN peace keepers were assigned to southern Lebanon after the 2006 war. They didnt do anything as Hezbollah remilitarized heavily. Israel cannot trust external peacekeepers.