8 ms·

NSF plans end to lone U.S. Antarctic research icebreaker

96 points by trauco 1y ago

trauco 1y ago
https://archive.is/2025.07.29-011650/https://www.science.org/content/article/nsf-plans-abrupt-end-lone-u-s-antarctic-research-icebreaker https://archive.is/2025.07.29-011650/https://www.science.org...
nxobject 1y ago
> NSF has been opaque about these plans—intentionally so, Wellner believes. “They are purposely not putting anything in writing,” she says. And the planned cancellation is leaving in limbo the scientists who have cruises planned for the Palmer this Antarctic summer, which begins in December. Incompetence (we didn't think about this out loud), or malice (we didn't want to leave a paper trail)?
- brendoelfrendo 1y ago
  https://www.propublica.org/article/video-project-2025-presidential-training-academy-trump-election https://www.propublica.org/article/video-project-2025-presid... Consider the video "Staffing an Office" where Jeff Small, a former advisor in the Department of the Interior says “When you work for the federal government everything you put in an email, text, or note is FOIAable and releasable to the American people. At interior, we had a ton of in person meetings which allowed us to speak a little more freely about the topics of the day.” Or the video "Advancing the President’s Agenda" where former OPM director Donald Devine says "You need to keep your agenda pretty close. You got to be careful who you tell it to because if you run it through a normal process…it’s going to be in the paper tomorrow..." It's pretty clear that the architects of our current executive branch want to keep their objectives out of the public record and out of the press. So let's go with malice.
  - bboygravity 1y ago
    And yet they know everything about each one of us (without admitting that they do). Source: Snowden. It only got worse from there.
  - mlinhares 1y ago
    And also keeping plausible deniability for the people at the top. They never told anyone to do anything, they decided to do this themselves. The third reich was full of this as well.
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      >And also keeping plausible deniability for the people at the top. They never told anyone to do anything, they decided to do this themselves. The third reich was full of this as well. Dude, every single government ever in the history of humanity works this way. The appointed administrators of ancient rome were scheming up ways to serve their benefactors without leaving a tablet trail that their benefactors opponents could complain about. When I worked for a podunk state department of a well run solidly blue state 15yr ago we did this. There were meetings with no agenda where they'd verbally go over what the new boss's (appointed positions at top of department, not the governor himself) inclinations were on areas of policy relevant to the department and there would be discussion about how to align to that. And this wasn't people who reported to the boss, these were line level workers and middle managers. This wasn't coming from the top down. This was the bottom simply knowing what was good for it. And just to be clear, just because it's always like this doesn't mean you shouldn't hate it and hate them for doing it.
  - throwworhtthrow 1y ago
    You'll find worse quotes from the House interview [1] of Fauci's advisor David Morens. Ever since I watched a recording of his testimony I've been more willing to give incompetence "passes" to bad behavior in Republican admins. [1] https://www.science.org/content/article/house-panel-takes-fauci-adviser-task-allegedly-evading-public-records-laws https://www.science.org/content/article/house-panel-takes-fa...
    - brendoelfrendo 1y ago
      Why? Assign malice where there's malice. Don't give someone a pass because someone else might have done something worse.
  - qingcharles 1y ago
    This happens all through government now. As soon as any small public body starts getting FOIA requests they stop putting anything off-color into an email and take it to phone calls and private meetings.
nQQKTz7dm27oZ 1y ago
The beings beyond the ice wall told the NSF to go away
- ricksunny 1y ago
  Ah we have a Linda Moulton Howe fan here I see =)
  - cheaprentalyeti 1y ago
    Hey, I'm collecting money for my expedition to see what's beyond the ice wall. I hope this will be more successful than the last expedition I sent, this time I'm sending them with a starlink terminal.
    - ricksunny 1y ago
      What’s your best source link for the NSF researchers alleged to have disappeared there for two weeks back in the 1990s?
michaelhoney 1y ago
The descent into scientific ignorance continues. What possible justification could you have for this?
- monero-xmr 1y ago
  There is no market test for “fundamental” research. So when an avenue of research secures taxpayer funding it exists into perpetuity, and as papers are published and requests for additional funding are made, it tends to grow like a tumor over the decades, getting more PhDs to be matriculated in the labs that began the avenue and grow ever more forever. Very rarely is an avenue of research closed off once the trifecta of university research labs + journals, PhDs who are minted to continue the research, and grants secured and grown. A lot of the hand wringing by academics themselves are unfocused but circling the root cause, which is this. I would prefer corporations fund research but directed through the university system. The patents and gains are then funneled through the corporations that funded it, rather than the academics and universities with zero return to the taxpayers other than abstract “society gains” pablum, when the academics and universities truly gain all the profit. When corporations that actually have a market test and profit motive are funding the research, avenues that are unlikely to succeed will be cut off sooner, and alternatives to the current vogue will be funded quicker. You can see a real-life example (of failure) in Alzheimer’s research which was hamstrung by decades of political control of research labs and taxpayer grants that refused to fund alternatives to the “mainstream” theories which set back society and the disease. You asked for the justification and I provided it
  - intermerda 1y ago
    Under your system what is the corporate incentive to study health effects of smoking?
    - monero-xmr 1y ago
      A pharmaceutical company interested in curing millions of people dying of smoking would fund it
MaxPock 1y ago
Someone ELI5: Why is the Trump administration defunding scientific research? Is there a bigger picture we're not seeing, or is it 8D chess he's playing ?
- sbierwagen 1y ago
  It's not subtle. Donald perceives colleges as bastions of wokeness. Nature literally endorsed Joe Biden: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02852-x https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02852-x Now that he's president, here come the reprisals. Zero out NSF's funding, shut down NPR, end the COVID era break on student loan enforcement, withdraw grants from Harvard.
  - arrowsmith 1y ago
    > Donald perceives colleges as bastions of wokeness. Is he wrong?
    - azinman2 1y ago
      Yes because he’s throwing the baby out with the bath water, being completely myopic about the value add to society and what it takes to make America competitive. Of course he’ll be dead before the real multi-generational consequences take effect.
    - frozenport 1y ago
      Yeah, specially in STEM. Despite posturing by some academic administrators, most folks have no social agenda for a country they recently immigrated to.
  - SV_BubbleTime 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - Noumenon72 1y ago
      This reads like you have a serious point to make about there being two different Nature magazines, but there aren't and there is absolutely no ambiguity that could lead you toward the concept of "nature" since he linked to the magazine that you are referring to. Not funny.
ISL 1y ago
As a scientist (physics, not polar ice), scientists alone are too few to advocate for science alone -- we literally cannot do it. If you want scientific research as you know it to persist in the United States, please take a moment to help support for science in Congress go viral in your community. Empirical science is non-partisan. It is good and helpful to know what's true. If your friends are devout readers of the bible, point 'em toward Philippians 4:8. While I'm not religious, that passage has resonated for me my entire life. Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
ck2 1y ago
It's going to take 100 years to recover from this spiteful, pointless destruction Who would ever work again for any research in any science that relies on government cooperation in the US? Only all of Congress should be able to do these things, we do not have Kings and we don't tolerate Tyrants
computerthings 1y ago
[dead]
HocusLocus 1y ago
Who owns it? (an LLC) contracts 'not public knowledge' How expensive is it to operate? How many icebreakers does NSF operate? Is there a US Coast guard icebreaker under construction? Lots of generic "they're sabotaging science! We're doomed!" around here. Sorry, just asking all the other missing questions. Carry on with the hysteria.

96 points by trauco 1y ago

https://archive.is/2025.07.29-011650/https://www.science.org/content/article/nsf-plans-abrupt-end-lone-u-s-antarctic-research-icebreaker https://archive.is/2025.07.29-011650/https://www.science.org...

nxobject 1y ago

> NSF has been opaque about these plans—intentionally so, Wellner believes. “They are purposely not putting anything in writing,” she says. And the planned cancellation is leaving in limbo the scientists who have cruises planned for the Palmer this Antarctic summer, which begins in December. Incompetence (we didn't think about this out loud), or malice (we didn't want to leave a paper trail)?

brendoelfrendo 1y ago
https://www.propublica.org/article/video-project-2025-presidential-training-academy-trump-election https://www.propublica.org/article/video-project-2025-presid... Consider the video "Staffing an Office" where Jeff Small, a former advisor in the Department of the Interior says “When you work for the federal government everything you put in an email, text, or note is FOIAable and releasable to the American people. At interior, we had a ton of in person meetings which allowed us to speak a little more freely about the topics of the day.” Or the video "Advancing the President’s Agenda" where former OPM director Donald Devine says "You need to keep your agenda pretty close. You got to be careful who you tell it to because if you run it through a normal process…it’s going to be in the paper tomorrow..." It's pretty clear that the architects of our current executive branch want to keep their objectives out of the public record and out of the press. So let's go with malice.
- bboygravity 1y ago
  And yet they know everything about each one of us (without admitting that they do). Source: Snowden. It only got worse from there.
- mlinhares 1y ago
  And also keeping plausible deniability for the people at the top. They never told anyone to do anything, they decided to do this themselves. The third reich was full of this as well.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    >And also keeping plausible deniability for the people at the top. They never told anyone to do anything, they decided to do this themselves. The third reich was full of this as well. Dude, every single government ever in the history of humanity works this way. The appointed administrators of ancient rome were scheming up ways to serve their benefactors without leaving a tablet trail that their benefactors opponents could complain about. When I worked for a podunk state department of a well run solidly blue state 15yr ago we did this. There were meetings with no agenda where they'd verbally go over what the new boss's (appointed positions at top of department, not the governor himself) inclinations were on areas of policy relevant to the department and there would be discussion about how to align to that. And this wasn't people who reported to the boss, these were line level workers and middle managers. This wasn't coming from the top down. This was the bottom simply knowing what was good for it. And just to be clear, just because it's always like this doesn't mean you shouldn't hate it and hate them for doing it.
- throwworhtthrow 1y ago
  You'll find worse quotes from the House interview [1] of Fauci's advisor David Morens. Ever since I watched a recording of his testimony I've been more willing to give incompetence "passes" to bad behavior in Republican admins. [1] https://www.science.org/content/article/house-panel-takes-fauci-adviser-task-allegedly-evading-public-records-laws https://www.science.org/content/article/house-panel-takes-fa...
  - brendoelfrendo 1y ago
    Why? Assign malice where there's malice. Don't give someone a pass because someone else might have done something worse.
- qingcharles 1y ago
  This happens all through government now. As soon as any small public body starts getting FOIA requests they stop putting anything off-color into an email and take it to phone calls and private meetings.

nQQKTz7dm27oZ 1y ago

The beings beyond the ice wall told the NSF to go away

ricksunny 1y ago
Ah we have a Linda Moulton Howe fan here I see =)
- cheaprentalyeti 1y ago
  Hey, I'm collecting money for my expedition to see what's beyond the ice wall. I hope this will be more successful than the last expedition I sent, this time I'm sending them with a starlink terminal.
  - ricksunny 1y ago
    What’s your best source link for the NSF researchers alleged to have disappeared there for two weeks back in the 1990s?

michaelhoney 1y ago

The descent into scientific ignorance continues. What possible justification could you have for this?

monero-xmr 1y ago
There is no market test for “fundamental” research. So when an avenue of research secures taxpayer funding it exists into perpetuity, and as papers are published and requests for additional funding are made, it tends to grow like a tumor over the decades, getting more PhDs to be matriculated in the labs that began the avenue and grow ever more forever. Very rarely is an avenue of research closed off once the trifecta of university research labs + journals, PhDs who are minted to continue the research, and grants secured and grown. A lot of the hand wringing by academics themselves are unfocused but circling the root cause, which is this. I would prefer corporations fund research but directed through the university system. The patents and gains are then funneled through the corporations that funded it, rather than the academics and universities with zero return to the taxpayers other than abstract “society gains” pablum, when the academics and universities truly gain all the profit. When corporations that actually have a market test and profit motive are funding the research, avenues that are unlikely to succeed will be cut off sooner, and alternatives to the current vogue will be funded quicker. You can see a real-life example (of failure) in Alzheimer’s research which was hamstrung by decades of political control of research labs and taxpayer grants that refused to fund alternatives to the “mainstream” theories which set back society and the disease. You asked for the justification and I provided it
- intermerda 1y ago
  Under your system what is the corporate incentive to study health effects of smoking?
  - monero-xmr 1y ago
    A pharmaceutical company interested in curing millions of people dying of smoking would fund it

MaxPock 1y ago

Someone ELI5: Why is the Trump administration defunding scientific research? Is there a bigger picture we're not seeing, or is it 8D chess he's playing ?

sbierwagen 1y ago
It's not subtle. Donald perceives colleges as bastions of wokeness. Nature literally endorsed Joe Biden: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02852-x https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02852-x Now that he's president, here come the reprisals. Zero out NSF's funding, shut down NPR, end the COVID era break on student loan enforcement, withdraw grants from Harvard.
- arrowsmith 1y ago
  > Donald perceives colleges as bastions of wokeness. Is he wrong?
  - azinman2 1y ago
    Yes because he’s throwing the baby out with the bath water, being completely myopic about the value add to society and what it takes to make America competitive. Of course he’ll be dead before the real multi-generational consequences take effect.
  - frozenport 1y ago
    Yeah, specially in STEM. Despite posturing by some academic administrators, most folks have no social agenda for a country they recently immigrated to.
- SV_BubbleTime 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - Noumenon72 1y ago
    This reads like you have a serious point to make about there being two different Nature magazines, but there aren't and there is absolutely no ambiguity that could lead you toward the concept of "nature" since he linked to the magazine that you are referring to. Not funny.

ISL 1y ago

As a scientist (physics, not polar ice), scientists alone are too few to advocate for science alone -- we literally cannot do it. If you want scientific research as you know it to persist in the United States, please take a moment to help support for science in Congress go viral in your community. Empirical science is non-partisan. It is good and helpful to know what's true. If your friends are devout readers of the bible, point 'em toward Philippians 4:8. While I'm not religious, that passage has resonated for me my entire life. Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

ck2 1y ago

It's going to take 100 years to recover from this spiteful, pointless destruction Who would ever work again for any research in any science that relies on government cooperation in the US? Only all of Congress should be able to do these things, we do not have Kings and we don't tolerate Tyrants

computerthings 1y ago

[dead]

HocusLocus 1y ago

Who owns it? (an LLC) contracts 'not public knowledge' How expensive is it to operate? How many icebreakers does NSF operate? Is there a US Coast guard icebreaker under construction? Lots of generic "they're sabotaging science! We're doomed!" around here. Sorry, just asking all the other missing questions. Carry on with the hysteria.