7 ms·

What a fucking mess. Labour voted in conservative policy. Conservatives voted against it. Reform, whilst all over the news for being against it, voted for it.

graemep 1y ago
Most Reform MPs did not vote at all! Neither did a lot of conservatives and labour, interestingly. Greens and Lib Dems voted no, which raises my opinion of them. Agreed its a mess.
- piker 1y ago
  Any abstention is at best in the same column as the ayes here. Arguably worse.
- oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
  Just for the benefit of those unfamiliar with UK politics: "most" is a bit misleading here, even though it's technically true. Reform has 4 MPs (out of 650).
  - ta1243 1y ago
    Wow, so they've lost 40% of the original lot which were elected last year. But for some reason the press seems to think they're the official opposition. They have the same number of MPs as the Green party, fewer than the DUP, half the SNP, and about 1/20th of the Lib Dems. I note 75% of them didn't bother turning up to work, I'm shocked one did.
jojobas 1y ago
Clamping down on freedoms is not conservative policy. Crap like Communications Act 2003 and Ofcom has been Labour policy for decades.
- asib 1y ago
  Laughable. Allow me to introduce you to the anti protest legislation brought into law by Suella Braverman.
- i80and 1y ago
  Clamping down on freedoms has been the raison d'être of "conservative" parties across the world my entire life
  - permo-w 1y ago
    this is still absolutely true, but there have been some rumblings of change in recent years. "left wing" values have partially shifted from trying to provide equal freedoms for everyone, to trying to provide freedoms for perceived-as marginalised groups, often at the expense of freedoms for lesser marginalised groups. if you're part of a lesser marginalised group and you don't subscribe to that particular ideology, this is going to feel very much the same as having your freedoms clamped down upon, and conservatives have pounced upon that as a stick to beat their enemies with, and to be fair, have come some way themselves wrt to gay rights and perhaps drug prohibition and some other things. taking a step back though, conservatives, particularly in the UK, are by no means libertarians, and in the UK essentially sired the "left wing" values that they hate so much. when did the revolution start? 2010-15ish?
  - broken-kebab 1y ago
    Both "conservatism" and "freedoms" mean a lot of different things even within anglophone countries, not to mention the obvious fact that political actors of any color never strictly follow their foundational ideology. This makes me believe that speaking for the whole world is a bit too daring, and your statement is purely emotional.
  - soraminazuki 1y ago
    Conservatives clamping down on freedoms is only half of the story. They proclaim to be the strongest defender of freedom while they're at it.
- arrowsmith 1y ago
quintes 1y ago
Wow this shows labour has too many MPs and the impacts of voting for labour
- subscribed 1y ago
  The alternative (4 more years of Tories) was still worse. Yes, I know. still much worse
varispeed 1y ago
This is misleading. Labour's only objection was that the policy was not going far enough!
0xbadcafebee 1y ago
I think it's fun when the elected government doesn't do what the people who elected them want. Like a middle finger to democracy.
- arrowsmith 1y ago
  "Alexa, summarise the last 15+ years of UK politics in two sentences."
  - scott_w 1y ago
    I mean, the last 15 years were mostly Tories and the public kept voting them in. I’m glad I’m not a politician because I have no sympathy for Brexit voters who voted Tory in 2019, claim “I know what a voted for,” and now complain about how much poorer and full of immigrants the country now is. It was all there in the 2019 Conservative manifesto they voted for!
    - arrowsmith 1y ago
      Wtf are you talking about? The Conservatives promised to reduce immigration in 2019. Instead they increased it to its highest ever levels by far, hence why they got thrown out of office. Have you ever met or spoken to a Conservative voter in your entire life?
      - scott_w 1y ago
        They promised a policy (Brexit) in a form that would replace immigration from European countries with immigration from non-white countries. In fact, the Tories did NOT promise to reduce immigration. They promised 2 things that are guaranteed to increase immigration: - 50,000 extra nurses (including foreign recruitment) - A points-based system, you can find articles talking about how this increases immigration Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50524262 https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50524262
        Nursie 1y ago
kypro 1y ago
> Reform, whilst all over the news for being against it, voted for it. Just as a slight correction – the only "Reform MP" that voted for it is James McMurdock, but he's no longer a Reform MP and I'm not sure why he is still listed as one here.
marsven_422 1y ago
[dead]
jeroenhd 1y ago
There's an excellent (volunteer-run) [website](https://www.partijgedrag.nl/index.php https://www.partijgedrag.nl/index.php) about Dutch politics that will ask your opinion on a bunch of historic chamber proposals (for/against/skip) and use that to show your alignment to different parties by comparing your answers with actual party votes. It has definitely swayed my vote a few times. I suppose such a tool might not work in a first-past-the-post voting system, but in my case it certainly has certainly helped to see what politicians actually vote like rather than just trusting the promises. If you live in a country with easily accessible digital records of votes/bills/proposals, I imagine you could throw something similar together and help quite a few people.
- addandsubtract 1y ago
  There's Wahl-o-Mat in Germany, that does the same thing. There's one for each major election, from regional votes to EU representative votes. https://www.wahl-o-mat.de/ https://www.wahl-o-mat.de/
  - Semaphor 1y ago
    > comparing your answers with actual party votes Wahl-o-Mat is *not* the same, it’s stated politics. One of the criticisms of it is that actual voting might (lol) differ. There was an alternative one, [0] Real-o-Mat that checked actual voting behavior. Though that has its own set of issues. [0]: https://real-o-mat.de/ https://real-o-mat.de/
- crinkly 1y ago
  Well aware of these tools. I've always said this but party politics is the stupidest idea ever. We should be voting on policies not people and parties. There isn't a single party which is ideologically aligned with me on enough of the significant issues. That leads to be having to pick the least bad one, and that's still bad.
pjc50 1y ago
It's Daily Mail policy, and they're the permanent government. With the help of the Home Office, who keep writing anti-encryption bills.

graemep 1y ago

Most Reform MPs did not vote at all! Neither did a lot of conservatives and labour, interestingly. Greens and Lib Dems voted no, which raises my opinion of them. Agreed its a mess.

piker 1y ago
Any abstention is at best in the same column as the ayes here. Arguably worse.
oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
Just for the benefit of those unfamiliar with UK politics: "most" is a bit misleading here, even though it's technically true. Reform has 4 MPs (out of 650).
- ta1243 1y ago
  Wow, so they've lost 40% of the original lot which were elected last year. But for some reason the press seems to think they're the official opposition. They have the same number of MPs as the Green party, fewer than the DUP, half the SNP, and about 1/20th of the Lib Dems. I note 75% of them didn't bother turning up to work, I'm shocked one did.

jojobas 1y ago

Clamping down on freedoms is not conservative policy. Crap like Communications Act 2003 and Ofcom has been Labour policy for decades.

asib 1y ago
Laughable. Allow me to introduce you to the anti protest legislation brought into law by Suella Braverman.
i80and 1y ago
Clamping down on freedoms has been the raison d'être of "conservative" parties across the world my entire life
- permo-w 1y ago
  this is still absolutely true, but there have been some rumblings of change in recent years. "left wing" values have partially shifted from trying to provide equal freedoms for everyone, to trying to provide freedoms for perceived-as marginalised groups, often at the expense of freedoms for lesser marginalised groups. if you're part of a lesser marginalised group and you don't subscribe to that particular ideology, this is going to feel very much the same as having your freedoms clamped down upon, and conservatives have pounced upon that as a stick to beat their enemies with, and to be fair, have come some way themselves wrt to gay rights and perhaps drug prohibition and some other things. taking a step back though, conservatives, particularly in the UK, are by no means libertarians, and in the UK essentially sired the "left wing" values that they hate so much. when did the revolution start? 2010-15ish?
- broken-kebab 1y ago
  Both "conservatism" and "freedoms" mean a lot of different things even within anglophone countries, not to mention the obvious fact that political actors of any color never strictly follow their foundational ideology. This makes me believe that speaking for the whole world is a bit too daring, and your statement is purely emotional.
- soraminazuki 1y ago
  Conservatives clamping down on freedoms is only half of the story. They proclaim to be the strongest defender of freedom while they're at it.
arrowsmith 1y ago

quintes 1y ago

Wow this shows labour has too many MPs and the impacts of voting for labour

subscribed 1y ago
The alternative (4 more years of Tories) was still worse. Yes, I know. still much worse

varispeed 1y ago

This is misleading. Labour's only objection was that the policy was not going far enough!

0xbadcafebee 1y ago

I think it's fun when the elected government doesn't do what the people who elected them want. Like a middle finger to democracy.

arrowsmith 1y ago
"Alexa, summarise the last 15+ years of UK politics in two sentences."
- scott_w 1y ago
  I mean, the last 15 years were mostly Tories and the public kept voting them in. I’m glad I’m not a politician because I have no sympathy for Brexit voters who voted Tory in 2019, claim “I know what a voted for,” and now complain about how much poorer and full of immigrants the country now is. It was all there in the 2019 Conservative manifesto they voted for!
  - arrowsmith 1y ago
    Wtf are you talking about? The Conservatives promised to reduce immigration in 2019. Instead they increased it to its highest ever levels by far, hence why they got thrown out of office. Have you ever met or spoken to a Conservative voter in your entire life?
    - scott_w 1y ago
      They promised a policy (Brexit) in a form that would replace immigration from European countries with immigration from non-white countries. In fact, the Tories did NOT promise to reduce immigration. They promised 2 things that are guaranteed to increase immigration: - 50,000 extra nurses (including foreign recruitment) - A points-based system, you can find articles talking about how this increases immigration Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50524262 https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50524262
      - Nursie 1y ago

kypro 1y ago

> Reform, whilst all over the news for being against it, voted for it. Just as a slight correction – the only "Reform MP" that voted for it is James McMurdock, but he's no longer a Reform MP and I'm not sure why he is still listed as one here.

marsven_422 1y ago

[dead]

jeroenhd 1y ago

There's an excellent (volunteer-run) [website](https://www.partijgedrag.nl/index.php https://www.partijgedrag.nl/index.php) about Dutch politics that will ask your opinion on a bunch of historic chamber proposals (for/against/skip) and use that to show your alignment to different parties by comparing your answers with actual party votes. It has definitely swayed my vote a few times. I suppose such a tool might not work in a first-past-the-post voting system, but in my case it certainly has certainly helped to see what politicians actually vote like rather than just trusting the promises. If you live in a country with easily accessible digital records of votes/bills/proposals, I imagine you could throw something similar together and help quite a few people.

addandsubtract 1y ago
There's Wahl-o-Mat in Germany, that does the same thing. There's one for each major election, from regional votes to EU representative votes. https://www.wahl-o-mat.de/ https://www.wahl-o-mat.de/
- Semaphor 1y ago
  > comparing your answers with actual party votes Wahl-o-Mat is *not* the same, it’s stated politics. One of the criticisms of it is that actual voting might (lol) differ. There was an alternative one, [0] Real-o-Mat that checked actual voting behavior. Though that has its own set of issues. [0]: https://real-o-mat.de/ https://real-o-mat.de/
crinkly 1y ago
Well aware of these tools. I've always said this but party politics is the stupidest idea ever. We should be voting on policies not people and parties. There isn't a single party which is ideologically aligned with me on enough of the significant issues. That leads to be having to pick the least bad one, and that's still bad.

pjc50 1y ago

It's Daily Mail policy, and they're the permanent government. With the help of the Home Office, who keep writing anti-encryption bills.