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‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

• deleted 1y ago
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• churchill 1y ago
  Does anyone still need testimonies like these to be convinced that Israel is systematically exterminating the Palestinians using kinetic force and starvation? We're past that point now. Making Gaza unlivable by carpet-bombing the strip, telegraphing mass murder in unambiguous statements at the highest levels of government, dehumanizing the Palestinians and silencing anyone who dares to speak up? I, for one, am thankful this hasn't been taken down like any article remotely critical of Israel. And this has eliminated the whole Western bullshit about human rights maximalism - it's just the same damn thing every time. Like the atrocities in the Congo free State, the Scramble for Africa, etc. the West will sponsor unspeakable atrocities overseas and then act shocked when they actually happen. Many people in the West don't realize it, but Palestine will wreck severe damage on the West. Just like Gorbachev visiting a random store in the US and seeing insane abundance in a shop in the middle of nowhere while Soviet citizens starved, what killed the Soviet Union was disillusion; people at all levels realized that a system that couldn't provide its people the basics didn't deserve to exist. That's what happening in the West: American GWOT veterans are still feeling disillusioned about what they went to do in Iraq & Afg. (and Vietnam, before it), and now their kids are seriously asking, "Are we the baddies?" What's the point of this industrial capacity and wealth if all we do with it is bomb kids? No political system can survive disillusion, that is, the point where people across the spectrum start seeing their nation as hypocritical.
  • leosanchez 1y ago
    > I, for one, am thankful this hasn't been taken down like any article remotely critical of Israel. Wait for few more hours to be thankful.
    • churchill 1y ago
      Was flagged and restored just now, haha. Edit: And this comment is flagged to hell, as well, haha. I guess saying that the systematic murder of civilians is bad is now a controversial opinion, lmao.
      • johnisgood 1y ago
        People form beliefs and make judgments based on things they do not know, it is nothing surprising[1]. I would recommend reading the history of Israel (vs. Palestine, especially). Yeah, Hamzah has been making lots of videos of IDF soldiers (and other Israelites) saying that they want all Palestinian children to die, and that their lives are worth more than Palestinians' lives. I am not surprised by any of this, the media is probably controlled. They hear what the Government wants them to hear, which is this: they are the good guys. [1] I do not claim to know everything either, which should be very obvious, but I try to postpone forming a judgment.
        • churchill 1y ago
          I feel it's not going to last longer. With the advent of modern, mass media, young people across the West can see for themselves and they're taking a side. More specifically, they don't want their governments funding genocide with their taxes. This cannot be made to go away, which is why Zionist activists and their lackeys are pulling out all the stops: no one expected the outburst of disgust at Israel's actions would get this severe, so they're in nonstop damage control mode.
          • johnisgood 1y ago
            I only know the history, I do not know what exactly is happening today. It is still sickening (in my humble opinion) that many people straight out tell him that they want children to die, but only Palestinian children.
            • speakfreely 1y ago
  • selimthegrim 1y ago
    It was Yeltsin, not Gorbachev
  • elihu 1y ago
    I think the thing that should have been a clear unambiguous sign (if nothing up to then were convincing enough) that Israel's intentions weren't just to defeat Hamas but cause severe harm to the civilian population of Gaza was when they blocked all food and aid into Gaza for months. I mean, why would you do that unless you want people to die? Even the stated explanation that they wanted to deprive Hamas of the ability to fundraise by stealing food and selling it back didn't make sense. Food shortages would cause the market value of hoarded food to rise, thus helping Hamas. Flooding the region with food would collapse the prices and deprive them of a revenue stream.
    • Cyph0n 1y ago
      The intention was clearly communicated from day 1. But Western governments willingly decided to provide diplomatic cover & military support - some to this very day - with the backing of the Western media apparatus.
      • ainiriand 1y ago
        Not the spanish government at least, now we are horrible aparently.
        • Cyph0n 1y ago
          Yes, Spain, Ireland, and Belgium were/are outliers. I am generalizing because the vast majority are complicit. It is also much simpler to do this than qualify each and every statement by enumerating the list of good or bad countries :)
          • BergAndCo 1y ago
            [dead]
    • insane_dreamer 1y ago
      "destroy Hamas" has become "kill everyone with Hamas sympathies" -- but you can be sure that every boy who can carry a gun, who has seen family members die, who is living the destruction and desolation, is itching for a chance to join the next version of Hamas (which may not be Hamas itself, but something else built on the same shouldering fires that burn when people are oppressed, bombed, and starved, repeatedly for generations. They're not destroying Hamas -- they're just creating a new one (if anyone survives).
  • pfannkuchen 1y ago
    Nit: Congo free state and Scramble for Africa were pretty different as I believe most Europeans didn’t realize and/or accept that sub Saharan Africans are humans at that point. They had an extremely different exposure to them (level and type) than we have today, and I don’t think we today can say whether we would have reacted differently to the Africans immediately post mass scale contact. Do people in the west today consciously consider Palestinians to be subhuman? I don’t think so? So this today is like much much worse actually IMO from a moral defensibility standpoint. This is orthogonal to your point, I agree with your point.
    • runarberg 1y ago
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    • churchill 1y ago
      I think your point has some merits, but ultimately, intent doesn't matter: action does. if the West keeps funding Israel's genocide in Gaza, then yes, it's because they believe the Palestinians are sub-human. Haven't you seen the outpouring of support for Ukraine since they were invaded? Yet, Western nations are funding (not overlooking, but actively paying for) something worse - a continuous, ongoing genocide - and it's supposed to be an oversight?
      • pfannkuchen 1y ago
        I disagree that intent does not matter when judging the morality of an action. I believe this is the supermajority view in the west. Which doesn’t make it right, of course, I just assumed we all thought that and if you don’t I’m not going to argue with you about it.
  • tim333 1y ago
    I mostly agree except the "no political system can survive disillusion" bit. In most of the examples you give the political system survived.
    • churchill 1y ago
      For now. Eventually, the injuries your system takes over time grinds your gears to a halt. And I can provide numerous examples: Portugal's colonial holdings (Guinea-Bissau, Angola, Mozambique) were unwound after the carnation revolution because the overseas wars were consuming 50% of the national budget while the Estado Novo at home was a corrupt, violent, authoritarian, corporatist state. The Brits could not square a global empire while their countrymen were rationing food, etc. at home. That had to go as well. Despite all the Cold War propaganda spread since the fall of the USSR, in 1991, the Soviet Union was still a first-rate military power, with 35k to 40k nuclear warheads and >150 divisions, totaling 3.4M troops. It could easily suppress any of those pro-democracy protests, and all the CIA's burrowing in the Sovbloc would come to nought. But there was no longer anything worth fighting for. Even people within the Party infrastructure had come to admit that they'd been living for a lie, lying for a lie, killing for a lie-all that for a lie! The Qing dynasty faced massive internal revolts (Taiping, Boxer), external invasions (Opium Wars), and technological stagnation. The empire resisted modernization too long, then tried too little, too late. Overwhelmed by foreign powers and internal revolution (1911), it died because it could no longer defend the illusion of legitimacy. In France's Ancien Regime, nobles were exempt from taxes while peasants starved; France had a bloated, corrupt court and massive debt (partly from helping America fight the British!), yet refused reforms. Nazi Germany claimed to be defending “Western civilization” while practicing industrial genocide and totalitarian control over - wait for it - Europeans! One contradiction doesn't bring down a political system, but it cascades, because a hypocritical system dives deeper into hypocrisy until it eventually collapses.
      • h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 1y ago
        I get that things are bad. But how do we fix it?
      • Der_Einzige 1y ago
  • LorenPechtel 1y ago
    [flagged]
  • geysersam 1y ago
    > And this has eliminated the whole Western bullshit about human rights maximalism That's the truth. "Never again". Clearly our politicians do not believe in human rights or international law. What do they believe in? Democracy? I doubt it. Money? Western exceptionalism? More likely. Where do we go from here? Why would anyone ever take any moral argument from a western nation seriously ever again?
    • oezi 1y ago
      What we have learned again is that actions speak louder than words and that without action you can't achieve anything. Western nations aren't doing anything nor are middle eastern governments, nor asian governments. My takeaway is that the UN needs to be replaced with something without the 5 veto powers. Both Gaza now and Syria could have been prevented with peacekeeping missions if it weren't for the US and Russia and their vetos.
      • geysersam 1y ago
        > Western nations aren't doing anything nor are middle eastern governments, nor asian governments. On the other hand, middle Eastern nations and Asian nations are typically protesting loudly, they don't protect Israel in the UN, they recognize the Palestinian state, they don't sell weapons to Israel.
        • achierius 1y ago
          This is just untrue. Go look at what major Arab countries are doing right now, or look at how China is selling weapons to Israel. It's not on the same level as Western support, but it's still there.
          • geysersam 1y ago
            What's untrue? Most Asian and ME countries recognize Palestine, most European/Western countries don't: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Palestine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of... About Chinese weapons exports it seems we have different sources. From what I can tell Israels arms imports are dominated by US and Germany, with scattered contributions from other European countries. Chinas arms imports to Israel are miniscule by comparison. On the other hand I'm sure China provides a lot of components to Israels military industry, but that's a different question.
  • bamboozled 1y ago
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  • zahlman 1y ago
    > I, for one, am thankful this hasn't been taken down like any article remotely critical of Israel. ????? I am generally not at all invested in this conflict and I cede that I have very little information about what is going on, and it's been like that for me for decades. But the information that is available to me, in the current context, from looking at HN, is: pro-Palestine and anti-Israeli sentiments are the norm in comment sections here; comments resisting this viewpoint are routinely downvoted and flagged; news stories about the conflict that make it to the HN front page (including this one) overwhelmingly are taking Palestine's side; and on occasions where I've tried to flag submissions that I felt were grossly uncharitable (making claims beyond what their evidence supports, and/or using inflammatory language) they have not been taken down (and I've only seen anti-Israel examples of such to flag). At any rate, your comment is a polemic that appears not to even consider reasons why other people might see the issue differently, and implicitly shames people for not coming to a conclusion you consider obvious. That is not up to the standard I understood HN political discussion to expect. (And since I have showdead on, I can see the replies to you that were flagged and killed. They are really not any worse from what I can tell, but they apparently have the wrong political polarity — the one you claim is endorsed, directly counter to the evidence available to me.) P.S. Whoever downvoted and flagged this, please explain your reasoning. I am happy to consider your point of view.
    • ivape 1y ago
      [flagged]
      • zahlman 1y ago
        I don't know whether you are being sincere or sarcastic, but either way this is not a productive mode of discourse. If sincere: > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. If sarcastic: > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
        • deleted 1y ago
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  • kevinventullo 1y ago
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  • starik36 1y ago
    > Anyone still need testimonies like these to be convinced that Israel You are operating until a false premise that Palestinians/Hamas are some sort of children and bear no responsibility for anything at all. Where in reality, the war could have been over in 5 minutes if they released the hostages at any time during the past 3 years. It still can be over in 5 minutes if they choose to do that. But no, they will put as many of their own people in harm's way as necessary to get to the world opinion to be what it is. And literally no one, including you, is questioning that. But please, do tell me that hostages have nothing to do with anything or Netanyahu bad or whatever else you can cook up. > while Soviet citizens starved As someone who grew up in the USSR, I can assure you - no one was starving. > what killed the Soviet Union was disillusion. People at all levels realized that a system that couldn't provide its people the basics didn't deserve to exist. That is such a simplistic view of what happened. I don't think that the system cared what its people thought at any time during the existence of the Soviet Union.
    • ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
      > You are operating until a false premise that Palestinians/Hamas are some sort of children and bear no responsibility for anything at all. Where in reality, the war could have been over in 5 minutes if they released the hostages at any time during the past 3 years. It still can be over in 5 minutes if they choose to do that. But no, they will put as many of their own people in harm's way as necessary to get to the world opinion to be what it is. And literally no one, including you, is questioning that. Palestinians and Hamas are 2 different groups of people. Which 1 are you referring to when you say "they"? Only the Hamas can legally be punished as a result of Hamas's actions. Punishing Palestinians because you're mad at Hamas is a war crime.
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      • 1y ago
  • FabHK 1y ago
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    • protocolture 1y ago
      >About 2.5% of the inhabitants of Gaza have been killed in the ongoing war, constituting fewer than 0.5% of Palestinians worldwide. My understanding is that the agencies in Gaza have not only lost their ability to tally the dead, but have not been tracking deaths where a corpse has not been located. Not to mention that this is the tail end of a long process that began with the Nakba. The fact that theres a remnant refugee population that has been removed from their land and isolated to a small stateless fragment, is already in meeting with definitions of genocide. Bombing that remnant into the dust is underlining the issue.
      • FabHK 1y ago
        Sure, it's been going on for a long time. Close to a million Palestinians were expelled (or fled) from Israel after its founding, and close to a million Jews were expelled (or fled) from various Muslim-majority countries around that time. The former is known as the Nakba (as you highlight) and well known. The latter, not so much.
    • lazyasciiart 1y ago
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  • Aunche 1y ago
    > Does anyone still need testimonies like these to be convinced that Israel is systematically exterminating the Palestinians using kinetic force and starvation? Before October 7, activists insisted that Gaza’s border restrictions were driven purely by hatred rather than any legitimate security concerns. That view was completely discredited by the attacks on October 7, so forgive me for being skeptical of similarly absolutist claims being made now. To be clear, preventing famine should take far greater priority than intercepting a few more rockets with Iron Dome. The suffering in Gaza is undeniable. But I see Israel’s actions as driven more by indifference or strategic rigidity than by a calculated intent to exterminate. Maybe that distinction doesn't matter to you, since it doesn't change how people are dying needlessly, but how we interpret Israel’s intent shapes how we respond. Backing Israel into a corner tends to make things worse, not better. That’s why the Biden administration’s approach of supporting military aid while applying diplomatic pressure was the only viable path to avoid even greater catastrophe.
    • elzbardico 1y ago
      Border restrictions: Blockade. Given the brutal blockade of Gaza, the continuous encroachment of settlers in the occupied territory, the continued refusal of a two-state solution, what exactly Israel expects to happen? It is not like the Palestinians have F-35s and Abrahams tanks paid by the US in order to wage a proper war against Israel. Israel, given its own history (google for Irgun, Stern Gang, Lehi, Hagannah, etc) should be able to predict the end result of its actions.
      • Aunche 1y ago
        > Given the brutal blockade of Gaza, the continuous encroachment of settlers in the occupied territory, the continued refusal of a two-state solution, what exactly Israel expects to happen? Are you implying that this "blockade" was unnecessary for security purposes? You're painting this as inevitable due to the circumstances, yet of the two regions, the one given more autonomy and decolonized was the one that attacked.
  • solidsnack9000 1y ago
    One reason to doubt that Israel is systematically exterminating the Gazan population is simply that the population is not decreasing or projected to decrease, which is to say, the excess deaths due to the conflict are not all that great relative to the natural rate of increase of the population. Israel should be as aware of the statistics as anyone, especially when undertaking the systematic extermination of a population. If Israel actually intended this, don't you think it would go much faster, with the tremendous amount of ordnance that has been expended and the overwhelming military force Israel has in place? It just doesn't add up.
    • t-3 1y ago
      Who is it that you expect to be doing the counting? I've seen estimates of anywhere from 50k-500k dead, but nobody is sure because outsiders aren't being allowed to enter and the people inside have enough trouble staying alive and little time to be doing headcounts and statistics. Israel hasn't been releasing any numbers at all from what I can tell.
  • somedude895 1y ago
    > Israel is systematically exterminating the Palestinians This would be the dumbest way to do this. It would take centuries to exterminate them at this rate. The genocide narrative makes no sense to any person with a brain.
    • TFYS 1y ago
      I don't think the definition of genocide includes a time frame during which the whole group must be killed.
    • BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
      Why’s it gotta be quick? Israel has them contained and holds every card. Its government could speed it up tomorrow if they wanted to, but that might look bad enough to lose them the support of the US and much of their population. Why hurry?
    • elzbardico 1y ago
      Actually, they are going pretty fast. Proportionally, it is going even a bit faster than the Darfur genocide. Israel would need to use their nukes to be more efficient. But this would severely damage the real estate potential of the strip.
    • avoutos 1y ago
      And the war would have to carry on centuries to maintain the current rate. If there is a subtle insidious plot to erode the population of Gaza over time, it is a huge flop. The first mistake would be Israel's unilateral withdraw from Gaza in 2005, ethnically cleansing its own citizens from the region to make way for the Palestinians. The population of Gaza has increased by roughly a million since then, which I must say isn't great for the Zionist plot.
  • DaveExeter 1y ago
    Israeli is implementing a final solution to the Palestinian problem, and that solution is...genocide! Some might argue it's not genocide but simply mass-murder. That's an awful lot of mass-murdering going on. The Bret Stephens hasbara is that it's not a genocide because of how slow the killing is. Obviously the IDF could dig in machine guns in hidden trenches, lure starving Palestinians with the bait of food, and gun down thousands at once. The problem with that approach is that such a strategy would risk rousing the conscience of the world. It's much safer to murder a few hundred a day and have slow starvation take thousands. While pictures of starving Palestinian children are evocative of the Holocaust, or at least of the end of the Holocaust when cameras were allowed into liberated concentration camps, the world seems not to have a problem with Holocaust 2.0
  • YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
    Yeah, sorry but that's wishful thinking. As long as the people in the West have a relatively high quality of life and political stability -relative to everyone else, that is- they will not shake the foundation of their national institutions. That is even more so the case when they see how everyone else fares, who doesn't live in the West. In a sense, seeing what happens to Palestinians, Sudanese, Somalis, Syrians, Afghans, Lebanese, Pakistanis, etc etc, is a great motivator for the citizen of the EU, USA, and friends. If you look, you'll notice that the major political flare point in the West these days is ... immigration. Who cares what happens outside our borders? Our main preoccupation is protecting our borders. Because we are convinced everything outside them sucks.
  • sneak 1y ago
    > Israel is systematically exterminating the Palestinians using kinetic force and starvation? If this were the goal, they could do it in hours. Why is the body count so low given the duration of the war? This isn’t rhetoric. It might be they want plausible deniability. It seems to me however that everyone knows they aren’t really fooling anyone with their narrative, which really draws into focus: why aren’t they killing tens of thousands of Palestinians every day? They have the means, motive, and opportunity. They have the technology and are in position to do so. They have not. We know what systematic genocide looks like. This is mass murder, sure, but if they wanted to commit genocide, it would be done and over with by now. Instead, they have killed less than 5% of the population of Gaza. Why is that?
    • buyucu 1y ago
      Israel kills as many Palesitinians as it thinks it can get away with. They have the means the kill faster, but they are mindful of the international backlash.
  • msohailshah 1y ago
    Now you know all the antisemitism accusations were in bad faith, just to drown out any coverage of war crimes and suppress any opposition to the streamed genocide.
• Hikikomori 1y ago
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• vonneumannstan 1y ago
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  • orthogonal-wren 1y ago
    You can open the article and watch the video where they show two separate incidents.
  • curiousgal 1y ago
    [flagged]
    • dralley 1y ago
      There would be less scepticism if there weren't numerous examples of falsified incidents in the past. Nonetheless, the point of "the boy who cried wolf" is not "wolves don't exist". Both sides have been caught lying many, many times but that doesn't mean you can just dismiss every claim.
      • unethical_ban 1y ago
        There would be less skepticism if mainstream news organizations were allowed into Gaza. Do you think some of the world's top governments don't have intelligence on the matter? The UK foreign secretary is full of it when he calls this an atrocity?
        • dralley 1y ago
          > Do you think some of the world's top governments don't have intelligence on the matter? The UK foreign secretary is full of it when he calls this an atrocity? The entire thrust of my comment was that evidence of potential current crimes shouldn't be discarded just because there has been a lot of lying in the past.
          • unethical_ban 1y ago
            I got my threads twisted and thought you were defending Israeli claims that the violence is necessary, and that Gazans were making it all up.
• calmbonsai 1y ago
  IDF fired on World Central Kitchen workers April of 2024 so this, sadly, isn't surprising. At least more and more video is, finally, coming out vividly capturing these atrocities.
  • lawlessone 1y ago
    When they accidently shot those three hostages escaping that should have been the moment more people realized all this talk about acting on intelligence was just marketing.
    • dralley 1y ago
      On the other hand - when Israel struck the parking lot of that hospital a couple of weeks ago everyone was so confident that the IDF was lying when they said that there was a command bunker just underneath the entrance of the hospital. Not only did that end up being completely true, but the IDF killed Muhammad Sinwar in that strike. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/08/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-tunnel.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/08/world/middleeast/gaza-hos...
      • bigyabai 1y ago
        That doesn't exonerate anything, though. It shows Israel's willingness to put innocent lives in harm's way to plug potential future threats before they form. Threats they are overwhelmingly capable of deterring during transit, urban warfare or border conflicts. The doctrinal violence against civilian infrastructure (Dahiya doctrine) and the deliberate homicide of hostages (Hannibal directive) are inexcusable no matter how many military brass it kills.
      • mandmandam 1y ago
        > As a condition for joining the controlled tour, The New York Times agreed not to ... publish geographic details > according to the Israeli military > There are no known entrances to the tunnel within the hospital itself > According to the World Health Organization, Israel has conducted at least 686 attacks on health facilities in Gaza since the start of the war, damaging at least 33 of Gaza’s 36 hospitals > In other tunnels discovered by the Israeli military, soldiers have used Palestinians as human shields, sending them on ahead to scour for traps. ... You read this article as proof vindicating the IDF's version of events? ... Huh. If anyone wants to see the full story for themselves they can read it at https://archive.ph/giBjP#selection-1185.0-1189.43 https://archive.ph/giBjP#selection-1185.0-1189.43
• fuck_AI 1y ago
  Three words - Boycott, Divest, Sanction. If BDS didn't work, they wouldn't be trying to ban it.
  • churchill 1y ago
    oh, the Zionists got that covered already: 35 US states have passed laws/executive orders prohibiting boycotts of Israel.
    • whatshisface 1y ago
      Those laws never made any sense to me from a constitutional or even a practical standpoint. What's being banned? Are they supposed to force you to buy things?
      • esseph 1y ago
        The latter. They effectively get exclusivity if they want.
        • whatshisface 1y ago
          How does that work?
          • esseph 1y ago
            Ah, this may require digging into the local politics of your US state and the particular law. Here's the thing, fighting this in court would be extremely politically inconvenient for a lot of people.
          • churchill 1y ago
            Texas requires contractors to certify that they're not boycotting Israel; Florida maintains a public list of companies that boycott Israel and prohibits state investment in them; in Arkansas, the law has been upheld in federal court after a challenge.
• crystal_revenge 1y ago
  As someone who went to US high school in the 90s, a good 1/3 of our curriculum seemed to be "never again" studies of the holocaust and other genocides throughout history. Which makes it completely incomprehensible to me that suddenly "don't talk about genocide" has become the basically law. What's worse is I actually feel openly saying "I don't support this genocide and I'm critical of the state committing it" is a risky thing to say in public. I wouldn't say it not behind a pseudonymous account without some level of plausible deniability. Even peak cancel culture wasn't quite so chilling. It's also the area with the most clear manipulation of information on social media. The downvotes and flagged comments in this post are clearly not "organic", and the same pattern can be seen all over the web. We've truly entered a dystopian age that seems completely unfamiliar from the exciting world of tech I wanted to be a part of decades ago.
  • rightbyte 1y ago
    Ye it is surreal. Dunno what to add really. I might think pf something later...
  • oulipo 1y ago
    [flagged]
    • 7952 1y ago
      Its almost like genocide is a secret taboo that people won't admit to. Because at some level the logic of it actually fits (if you accept a premise of ethno-nationalism). It's a form of logical insanity; but that is what war and fear produce.
    • thenaturalist 1y ago
      [flagged]
      • avh02 1y ago
        So i guess just go ahead and kill them all, amirite?
• YZF 1y ago
  https://www.ynetnews.com/article/byodxibvgl https://www.ynetnews.com/article/byodxibvgl "Gaza Humanitarian Foundation chair Johnnie Moore accuses UN of 'playing politics' with Gazan lives, defends IDF and denies claims of mass casualties near aid sites, saying more people harmed in 24 hours of UN efforts than during weeks of GHF operations" He also discusses the specific individual here: "How do you respond to the claim from a former special forces operative who worked with your foundation, alleging that IDF troops shot and massacred Gazans coming to the aid centers? “That’s a personal matter, and I’m limited in what I can say. This is not a credible individual, and these are not credible accusations. I’m more than confident we have a great deal of evidence to refute them.”" https://networkcontagion.us/reports/7-15-25-the-4th-estate-sale-how-american-and-european-media-became-an-uncritical-mouthpiece-for-a-designated-foreign-terror-organization/ https://networkcontagion.us/reports/7-15-25-the-4th-estate-s... "7/15/25 – The 4th Estate Sale: How American and European Media Became an Uncritical Mouthpiece for a Designated Foreign Terror Organization" The report is from: Network Contagion Research Institute (NCRI) Rutgers University Social Perception Lab Headlines of key findings: - Mainstream media spread hostile, and often unverified, narratives delegitimizing U.S.-backed humanitarian aid efforts in Gaza. - Major media headlines cited Hamas-linked officials more than any other source – making a foreign terrorist organization one of the leading voices shaping news about GHF - Unverified headlines triggered viral, conspiratorial social media posts, often amplified by foreign state media. - GHF-related media coverage undermined trust in America while shielding Hamas-linked actors by inducing bias. - Narrative backlash closely tracked U.S. operational success on the ground. - The GHF’s competitors amplified Hamas-sourced claims to undermine U.S.-led aid efforts. - False Gaza Atrocity Narratives Trigger Left-Wing Violence and Right-Wing Amplification. "NCRI assesses that the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation was not merely the subject of criticism, but the target of a convergent narrative attack in which American and European media acted as a de facto mouthpiece for a foreign terrorist organization. This environment systematically elevated Hamas-linked claims, which were often unverified, uncontextualized, or outright false. Major headlines were repeatedly exaggerated or framed to imply atrocity, often without source transparency or sufficient evidentiary scrutiny." The perspective you're not getting: https://ghf.org/updates/ https://ghf.org/updates/ - More than 79 million meals distributed to date (update from about a week ago, might be more recent ones)
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• cindyllm 1y ago
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• oulipo 1y ago
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  • bboygravity 1y ago
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    • _tbl6 1y ago
      Hamas is a terrorist organisation, the IDF is a state. Of course the state should be held to a higher standard than a terrorist organisation, this is not me excusing what Hamas have done, but if you start justifying a state's actions with "a terrorist organisation has done the same" where does that end? US state actors hijacking and crashing a Russian passenger jet into the Kremlin?
      • YoloVibes 1y ago
        elected by the people of gaza with support from the population.
        • alpha_squared 1y ago
          > elected by the people of gaza with support from the population. Since we're cherry-picking, let me continue the sequence for you... ...propped up by Israel to be elected by the people of Gaza. [0] [0] https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...
          • dismalaf 1y ago
            Israel tried to bribe Hamas into not attacking them, yes. Was that a bad plan? Should they not have tried to make life good enough for Gazans to not resort to terrorism?
            • alpha_squared 1y ago
• pavlov 1y ago
  Many tech companies and startups are based in Israel. I’d argue this makes the topic relevant for HN.
  • YoloVibes 1y ago
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    • Qem 1y ago
      https://techforpalestine.org/ https://techforpalestine.org/
• pmkary 1y ago
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  • tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago
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    • nashashmi 1y ago
      citation not needed. we have seen it all.
      • blast 1y ago
        I haven't seen such a video, though I wouldn't be surprised if one existed. Let's stick to facts.
        • nashashmi 1y ago
          Facts are it and many more exist
• 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
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  • YoloVibes 1y ago
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  • yonisto 1y ago
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• deleted 1y ago
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• JamesAdir 1y ago
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  • fuck_AI 1y ago
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    • cindyllm 1y ago
      [dead]
  • holmesworcester 1y ago
    If any attempt is being made here to justify those horrible acts, the attempt is being made by the Israeli state, its army, and (since it's a democracy) its electorate. Some believe the current attempt is unnecessary because attempts prior to October 7th had already succeeded. The evidence for this belief includes hard-to-fake numbers like both sides' cumulative death tolls. Many more serious or cautious voices believe that nothing Israel could do after October 7th could retroactively justify it. But still an attempt is being made.
    • thenaturalist 1y ago
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• sorushn 1y ago
  One Day, Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This.
  • antonvs 1y ago
    We can only hope. But I'm not as optimistic as you.
  • thenaturalist 1y ago
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    • daveguy 1y ago
      One war crime does not excuse another.
  • deleted 1y ago
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• rizs12 1y ago
  Isn't the Prime Minister of Israel wanted by the Hague?
  • 9dev 1y ago
    He is, but many heads of state already declared they are going to ignore that should Netanjahu fancy a visit. The hypocrisy is stunning.
    • ars 1y ago
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      • juliushuijnk 1y ago
        Their bias against genocide?
        • ars 1y ago
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        • asdefghyk 1y ago
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      • gscott 1y ago
        Hamas leaders are being killed faster then the ICC can get them. That is the ICC's fault of course.
        • ars 1y ago
          There were zero dead Hamas leaders on Oct 8, but the ICC did nothing, and did not care. Not to mention there are living Hamas leaders in Qatar, today, and the ICC? Does nothing. They are a joke.
          • 1y ago
• dismalaf 1y ago
  Criticizing Israel is in vogue but what's the solution? Gazans still hold Israeli hostages, Hamas has publicly stated that more civilian deaths helps their cause [1], they're still fighting, the UN refused to distribute aid because they were getting attacked [2], and Israel unilaterally pulling out of Gaza and leaving them to govern themselves is literally what led to October 7th... 1 - https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/11/middleeast/sinwar-hamas-israel-ceasefire-hostage-talks-intl https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/11/middleeast/sinwar-hamas-israe... 2 - https://www.wfp.org/news/un-food-agency-pauses-deliveries-north-gaza https://www.wfp.org/news/un-food-agency-pauses-deliveries-no... Edit - I love it. Down votes instead of responding to this comment's question. Again, what's your solution people? Edit 2 - is this really a good use of the flagging tool? Is this what HN is about?
  • 9dev 1y ago
    Well the solution certainly isn’t letting an entire People starve to death? By the way, I don’t see criticism of Israel, but Israel’s current extremist government. I’d even argue that supporting Israel means opposing that administration.
    • dismalaf 1y ago
      > Well the solution certainly isn’t letting an entire People starve to death? So answer the question with your solution.
      • 9dev 1y ago
        No, that's a logical fallacy. I can be against something obviously wrong without offering an alternative action. In fact, this is a case of "something needs to be done, this is something, so this must be done". Wrong. Doing nothing—not starving Gaza—was also an option; one that the Israeli government decided against. They are responsible for the current situation.
        • exodust 1y ago
          > "They are responsible for the current situation." Pretty sure the people responsible are the ones hijacking aid trucks and causing security problems in distribution areas. Hamas has a long history of misdirecting aid from the Gazan population; stealing, oppressing, punishing, exploiting, and that's from before the war as commonly reported by UN sources and humanitarian groups over the years.
• deleted 1y ago
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• dmix 1y ago
  Did the air dropping of food not work out?
  • globalnode 1y ago
    [flagged]
  • coderjames 1y ago
    It has not so far. "Experts say that airdrops, another measure Israel announced, are insufficient for the immense need in Gaza and dangerous to people on the ground."[1] "[T]he airdrops have an advantage over trucks because planes can move aid to a particular location very quickly. But in terms of volume, the airdrops will be 'a supplement to, not a replacement for moving things in by ground.'"[2] The airdrops killed people when 1) the containers landed on occupied tents and, 2) containers landed in the water and people drowned attempting to retrieve the aid. Trucks can also delivery vastly larger quantities of aid substantially faster and cheaper than planes. [1] https://apnews.com/article/gaza-starvation-israel-palestinians-aid-netanyahu-war-5315b1bdf244a21790a056570bb0ae19 https://apnews.com/article/gaza-starvation-israel-palestinia... [2] https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-airdrop-humanitarian-assistance-f8bc071193f89906abf21478bc70a084 https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-airdrop-humanit...
  • LorenPechtel 1y ago
    Didn't last long at all. The whole problem is Hamas is taking the aid, not that it's not getting in.
    • cypherpunks01 1y ago
      No Proof Hamas Routinely Stole U.N. Aid, Israeli Military Officials Say https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un-aid-theft.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un... https://archive.is/1bllc https://archive.is/1bllc
    • vortegne 1y ago
      Source?
• Yizahi 1y ago
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  • thenaturalist 1y ago
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  • axblount 1y ago
    I'm sorry but committing genocide is wrong without scare quotes. There is no justification.
    • shinecantbeseen 1y ago
      This type of comment betrays a lack of understanding of Iran’s desire to fight Israel to the last Palestinian. They’re both victims of Iran acting in ways that most of this thread doesn’t really seem to understand but the person you’re responding to does.
  • deleted 1y ago
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• xyst 1y ago
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  • Aloisius 1y ago
    There are 194 other countries not lifting a finger either.
    • yodsanklai 1y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Isra... The US is a direct enabler, not a passive observer.
      • Aloisius 1y ago
        So is everyone Israel trades with which is a rather large number of countries. No one wants the US to be the world police. If other countries want Israel to stop, they should do something about it themselves.
  • hirvi74 1y ago
    > How do Jewish people accept the genocide going on right now? Israel is predominately Jewish in religion and ethnicity, but Israel does not represent all Jewish people. While I am not Jewish, I would imagine some might find to conflation to be highly offensive.
    • pphysch 1y ago
      > I would imagine some might find to conflation to be highly offensive. Yes, with the huge caveat that the leading architects of the conflation are pro-Israeli activists. Using Judaism as a human-shield.
      • hirvi74 1y ago
        The person I was responding to was unlikely a pro-Israeli activist, so I am not certain why you felt compelled to mention your caveat. Are you implying that because pro-Israeli activist allegedly created the conflation that others are justified in perpetuating it? I literally wrote that Israel does not represent all Jewish people. Yet, you beeline straight to mentioning pro-Israeli activist. It doesn't matter who created the irrational conflation or not. People need to stop perpetuating it.
• sva_ 1y ago
  [flagged]
• udioron 1y ago
  https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1949914470739771760 https://x.com/GHFUpdates/status/1949914470739771760
• mjamil 1y ago
  The UN definition is quoted here: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: - Killing members of the group; - Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; - Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; - Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; - Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Note that to meet this definition, the following conditions must be met (among others): 1. Intent to destroy must be present. 2. The intent must be to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group. 3. The destruction can be serious bodily or mental harm, or it can mean creating conditions calculated to bring about the destruction of the group in whole or in part. This means that: - people that believe that genocide must be about a race is misguided (it can be about a nationality, and Palestinians identify as a nationality that is recognized by over 75% of the countries in the UN); - the fact that there are Palestinians elsewhere (the West Bank and Jordan, as two examples) isn't relevant to deciding whether this is a genocide (since genocide can be about destruction targeted at a part of a group); and, - there are many examples of Israeli ministers and government personnel stating goals that sound genocidal, which people interpret to affirm intent. IANAL, and genocide is a legal term, so I am not weighing in on this with a personal opinion, but it seems reasonable that laypeople, at least, can read that definition and reach the conclusion that Israel is committing genocide. The fact that various genocide scholars (including Omer Bartov at Brown); the Lemkin Institute (named after the Lemkin who coined the term genocide); HRW; Amnesty; MSF; and other institutions have called this a genocide is also probably helping laypeople believe the claim. Finally, there is not just a moral imperative but a legal requirement under the Geneva Convention to feed people. Article 55 states that an occupying power is responsible for this.
  • ars 1y ago
    Israel is not an occupying power in Gaza, but rather a warring power. And Article 23 of the 4th Geneva Convention says: ".... are no serious reasons for fearing: (a) that the consignments may be diverted from their destination," i.e. if the warring party believes the supplies will be diverted they have no obligation to supply them. And that's what is going on here.
• LightBug1 1y ago
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• mrs6969 1y ago
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  • thenaturalist 1y ago
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• danbruc 1y ago
  »If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?« David Ben-Gurion, First Prime Minister of Israel Come to your senses and end this tragedy, give the Palestinians their own sovereign state, and then hope that they can forgive what you have done to them!
  • thenaturalist 1y ago
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  • slibhb 1y ago
    Palestinians have been offered a state 5 times starting in 1937. They rejected each offer. They don't want a state of their own; they want to conquer Israel. I don't see a solution. Maybe establish a somewhat repressive non-democratic Palestinian state?
    • danbruc 1y ago
      This is simply not true, there was never any offer with acceptable terms. I am not going to repeat this here, this has been discussed countless times and you can easily find this if you want to.
      • slibhb 1y ago
        All of the offers seem acceptable to me. In the first offer, the Jewish state was quite small. None of the offers were acceptable to Palestinians because they include a Jewish state. Virtually all Arabs want to fight a war against Israel and destroy it. They view that land as theirs. The only reason there haven't been more wars is due to repressive Arab governments that have been willing to compromise.
        • 1y ago
• thenaturalist 1y ago
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• sva_ 1y ago
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  • 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
    This article having flags turned off ain't organic either.
    • LightBug1 1y ago
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      • deleted 1y ago
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      • dang 1y ago
        Please don't post flamebait comments, regardless of how right you are or feel you are, and regardless of what other users are doing. It just makes everything worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    • deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  • thenaturalist 1y ago
    Many of them not much older than two weeks. This reeks like a massive failure of any content moderation process. dang, what is up with factual, on topic comments being flagged en masse within two minutes of writing?
    • tomhow 1y ago
      There is a lot of ideologically motivated flagging of comments from all sides. We're trying to go through and unkill reasonable comments, but it's a slow process. You could help by vouching the ones that are not breaking the guidelines, and also by not posting comments that break the guidelines yourself.
• LightBug1 1y ago
  The first video shots reminded me of the balcony scenes in Schindler's List.
• asdefghyk 1y ago
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  • mrs6969 1y ago
    surely it can be; why don't israel let journalists to enter gaza, so that many eyes will be there to see what is going on actually... oh I think I know why, everyone knows why...
  • LightBug1 1y ago
    This man is definitely not the only one who has come forward. At want point to do you actually take multiple witnesses and believe them? Many aid agencies and other sources on the ground have also verified many of the claims, when journalists can't (considering they've been banned from entering). Are all the aid agencies lying too? And sometimes, just sometimes, in this world of AI now, video evidence is accurate. The world is imperfect, and so we go with the balance of probabilities. And I'll confirm for you. There's a murderous genocide taking place.
    • asdefghyk 1y ago
      How do you know that Hamas is not involved in these cases? You can not. Also a high percentage of the said 50,000 killed would have to be Hamas terrorists. Also, Hamas would be working overtime to make this new way of food distribution to fail. Gaza people would not want to blame Hamas at ALL, since Hamas kills people who criticize them. This has happened in Past In fact it is reported Hamas told Gaza people not to get food from the new distrubution places. Hamas would also have to be guilty of genocide. In fact they have previously stated this in writing. Hamas is prepared to sacrifice Gaza people. Also Hamas committed genocide on October 7th
      • deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      • LightBug1 1y ago
        You appear to have ignored everything I said. I hope you don't mind if I return the favour. I'll just end by saying that, to me, Israels actions in terms of Gaza over the last 2 years mean I do not differentiate those who carry out the actions from Nazi's (dictionary definitions). And that applies to those who support those actions. I've worded this carefully so you know that I do not refer to all Israeli's, because I don't. But it probably applies to you.
• zetazzed 1y ago
  I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to say "Great!" The dumbest reaction is "screw you, you were for Israel's invasion and you're an asshole." Movements that want to grow should accept people who change their minds when the situation changes, they get new data, or they learn a new perspective.
  • tim333 1y ago
    Pretty much my take. I thought Israel's actions were reasonable at first but out of hand now.
    • torlok 1y ago
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      • SilverElfin 1y ago
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        • wredcoll 1y ago
          > Jewish people occupied the entire region long before Islam existed or Islamic Arabs took it over? And other peoples occupied the region long before judaism was an idea in some shepherd's preaching. The problem with this logic is, where do you stop. At what point do you declare "these people were the special first ones and anyone before them doesn't matter"? Much less the mental gymnastics required to believe that which human owned which land in 500bce is relevant to how to deal with things in 2025. It's not that we should ignore history, it's absolutely worth understanding how we got to the current position, but we shouldn't privilege it over the lives and wellbeing of actual people living right now.
      • 1y ago
• diebeforei485 1y ago
  Israel does not allow international journalists in and it's fairly obvious why.
  • thenaturalist 1y ago
    [flagged]
    • rany_ 1y ago
      Yes, Israel is the one currently banning international journalists from entering Gaza. Hamas has no reason to.
      • thenaturalist 1y ago
        Yeah, really no reason. Because they really love unbiased coverage. > The journalist told RSF that the threat came from Hamas members who were unhappy with his social media posts. A few days earlier, the reporter — who wishes to remain anonymous — had published a post criticising Hamas, which was facing strong backlash from local protestors exhausted from being subjected to the massacres committed by Israeli forces. > Due to these threats the journalist deleted his posts, fearing for his safety. At least two other journalists have faced threats and physical attacks for covering the protests against Hamas, which lasted several days. “Detention centres and administrative offices in Gaza have been destroyed,” one journalist told RSF. “So now Hamas’ intimidation tactics consist of direct confrontations with journalists, and the journalists have nowhere to go.” https://rsf.org/en/gaza-rsf-condemns-hamas-threats-against-journalists-bombarded-israel https://rsf.org/en/gaza-rsf-condemns-hamas-threats-against-j...
        • rany_ 1y ago
          Sure but your post is completely unrelated. We are talking about international journalists not being allowed into Gaza. Your comment is about a local journalist being intimidated by Hamas members. International journalists are generally allowed to report freely. If there was any intimidation they would be airing it nonstop.
• jiggawatts 1y ago
  Something to keep in mind when listening to "first hand accounts" like this is that even if they're honest statements, everybody is subject to the fog of war and skewed statistics. An example that came up a few months ago was a surgeon in a Gaza hospital making the honest statement to BBC journalists that he had seen dozens of children coming into the hospital near death with a "single shot" to a vital organ. He claimed they were purposefully "sniped" by IDF soldiers because in his mind it was "impossible" that they were all so accurately shot precisely once. What he didn't see coming into his O/R were the children with multiple gunshot wounds... because they died. Conversely, a grazing wound from shrapnel is too minor to go to his well equipped hospital, because the hospital is overloaded and taking only the severely wounded. So he saw just the filtered subset of injuries that were very severe but just barely survivable, giving him the false impression that the IDF was going out of its way to snipe children with a single well-placed shot. (This isn't some random anecdote either, there were long articles circulating around the international media!) From the surgeon's point of view, he saw only a subset of what's going on, and he drew a conclusion that wasn't actually supported by the evidence. The problem is that his point of view supported a popular narrative, was amplified, and nobody bothered to verify statistics because.. sss... that's hard in a war zone. I'm not advocating for either side and support neither. I'm just recommending reading all articles related to the war with a critical eye.
  • SirSavary 1y ago
    > What he didn't see coming into his O/R were the children with multiple gunshot wounds... because they died. Conversely, a grazing wound from shrapnel is too minor to go to his well equipped hospital, because the hospital is overloaded and taking only the severely wounded. So he saw just the filtered subset of injuries that were very severe but just barely survivable, giving him the false impression that the IDF was going out of its way to snipe children with a single well-placed shot. (This isn't some random anecdote either, there were long articles circulating around the international media!) Do you have a source for this?
    • jiggawatts 1y ago
      Apologies, it was The Guardian not the BBC: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestini... The logic underpinning my comment is the Survivorship Bias: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias The source for that is the “pretraining” we all share: children generally don’t survive multiple gunshot wounds from military battle rifles. One… maybe, but not two or three to the chest… or anywhere really. I mean, you can debate that point if you choose, but you’d have to make a convincing argument that children are more likely to cling to life with more gunshot wounds.
• imchillyb 1y ago
  Removal of occupants from West Bank and Gaza, completely, was always the overall goal here. Israel doesn't seem to care overly much how this occurs, but they're making it happen. The goal is almost reached. There will be no Palestine. Egypt doesn't want the refugees. Jordan doesn't want the refugees. Qatar doesn't want the refugees. UAE doesn't want the refugees. Syria doesn't want the refugees. Lebanon doesn't want the refugees. Iran and Iraq don't want the refugees. America doesn't want the refugees. Europe doesn't want the refugees. Russia & China don't want the refugees. When the fortnite-circle closes in Gaza and West Bank, where do you think these people will go? To a gigantic concentration camp? They'll fight -and die- first. Israel, and all of the surrounding nations are counting on this fact. Palestine is done. Over. Finished. They have nowhere to go. They won't accept permanent incarceration. That leaves rebellion unto death. That is the option the world has given these people. Do we help them? Move them? No. We condemn Israel's actions and blah-blah-blah. Humanity makes me nauseous.
  • lazyasciiart 1y ago
    When there’s only 100,000 Palestinians left, Israel will announce that they accept a one-state solution.
    • konart 1y ago
      [flagged]
  • JamesAdir 1y ago
    Can you point out to any action about the removal of West Bank arabs? There are an estimation of 2.5-3 million arabs there. There is actually a country for these people and this is Jordan. Since in '48 the arabs didn't accept the two state solution then, they are forced to live in a country which is not for them. Also, could you please point out where are they refugees from? '48 is 77 years ago, how is the 2nd and 3rd generation are still refugees? There are no other people in the world who claim to be refugees in the 2nd and 3rd generation.
    • 1y ago
• karim79 1y ago
  Related, Israeli human rights groups are coming forward as well. The following is just one report: https://www.npr.org/2025/07/28/nx-s1-5482881/israel-gaza-genocide-rights-groups-btselem-physicians https://www.npr.org/2025/07/28/nx-s1-5482881/israel-gaza-gen... EDIT: The BBC also reports on the same subject: https://search.app/1LP8A https://search.app/1LP8A
  • jahewson 1y ago
    I look up the first of those “human rights groups” and see that it’s explicitly a Palestine advocacy group with 38 employees. How’s this anywhere near objective?
    • cypherpunks01 1y ago
      PHRI was founded by an Israeli who served in the IDF, among other Israeli physicians. There's nearly 200 citations in their report, citing a wide variety of Israeli and international media, medical journals, statements by the IDF, etc. https://www.phr.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Genocide-in-Gaza-PHRI-English.pdf https://www.phr.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Genocide-i...
      • emseetech 1y ago
        They must have been referring to B'Tselem since they have 38 employees, but it's an Israeli organization headed by an Israeli human rights lawyer, Yuli Novak. I assume the person you're responding to is not Israeli and has not been following this conflict very closely if they've never heard of B'Tselem.
• HamsterDan 1y ago
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• strictnein 1y ago
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  • unwise-exe 1y ago
    >>> No idea why these posts are allowed to flourish here No, they often get flagged off pretty quickly.
  • tomhow 1y ago
    Dang addressed this today in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44715823 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44715823 We do occasionally turn off flags in order to allow a discussion to happen because allowing no discussion to happen seems wrong Many people have different views on whether this and other topics should have significant exposure and discussion on HN, but in this case it seems enough of the community sees the topic as important to discuss, that we need to respect that sentiment.
  • dang 1y ago
    To add to what Tom posted, it's worth remembering that HN has always hosted a certain number of political stories, and that this question of how-much-is-too-much has been around as long as the site has (or since 2008 at least). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869
• bufferoverflow 1y ago
  It will all stop when the terrorists return all the hostages.
  • vdupras 1y ago
    That's an interesting point of view. If that is actually the goal of Israel right now, what if the Hamas executed all hostages on the spot, right now? Would Israel say "we have no more military objective, time to go home" or would they leash out in retaliation? I think we know what the answer would be. Because we know that, how can what you say possibly be true?
    • bufferoverflow 1y ago
      [dead]
• lanfeust6 1y ago
  You have to love the snark in here with "I was able to tell it would go this way from the beginning! I'm enlightened!" Israel has been provoked and attacked many times. The cautious hope seemed to be a rehash of the previous times there's been strife, that doesn't necessarily mean it was a prediction but it was unclear how long Israel would push this. After the completely kneecapping Hamas some thought they'd be wrapping up. From a self-defense standpoint there just isn't that much more to gain, and they're burning away all the global political goodwill they had.
• neom 1y ago
  Putin, 2005: https://irp.fas.org/news/2005/04/putin042505.html https://irp.fas.org/news/2005/04/putin042505.html Xi, 2012 - (中华儿女) - Chinese Dream - https://chinacopyrightandmedia.wordpress.com/2012/11/29/speech-at-the-road-to-rejuvenation/ https://chinacopyrightandmedia.wordpress.com/2012/11/29/spee... Netanyahu - 2015 - https://www.wsj.com/articles/netanyahu-makes-final-plea-for-votes-1426520160 https://www.wsj.com/articles/netanyahu-makes-final-plea-for-... These 3 guys have been saying the same thing for a long time now, sometimes quietly, sometimes loudly... we should probably take better note.
  • gaoguixi 1y ago
    Trump - 2025 - https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/07/president-trump-has-kept-his-promises-and-then-some/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/07/president-trump-... This guy wanna make his country great again right now
• insane_dreamer 1y ago
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  • ars 1y ago
    [flagged]
    • insane_dreamer 1y ago
      > way way way, worse that Gaza are going on right now Yeah, all those three are bad; Sudan in particular. I wouldn't say Yemen and Syria are worse than Gaza. > You seem to only care about Israel. The reason I'm screaming about Israel is especially because we (the US) are aiding and abetting it. If we were funding Sudanese rebels the way we're funding the IDF, and welcoming their generals to the White House like we do Bibi, I'be screaming about that too.
      • ars 1y ago
        > we (the US) are aiding and abetting it So because you think the US is involved, that's why the UN (which is not the US) should send peacekeepers?
        • insane_dreamer 1y ago
          yeah, the bit I wrote about the UN peacekeepers was offhand and inaccurate; the US imposes sanctions or invades
  • i_love_retros 1y ago
    [flagged]
  • skybrian 1y ago
    Well, maybe not. Did the UN send peacekeepers when Russia invaded Ukraine? Do they send peacekeepers to stop the war in Sudan? Intervening in an active war is not what peacekeepers are for. Why are Palestinian refugees still in Gaza when the whole place is a war zone? Certainly some would stay, but mostly they are trapped. Under the circumstances, for Gaza, having Israel as a neighbor is worse than having Russia as a neighbor. Even if enough food is shipped in to temporarily resolve the current crisis, people in Gaza won't be safe where they are. So, here's a question that's rarely asked: which countries will accept refugees from Gaza? Obviously not the US with the current administration. Why not France, Germany, or other European countries? According to Wikipedia, since 2022, Europe took over five million Ukrainian refugees due to the war. [1] This is more than twice the population of Gaza. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_refugee_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_refugee_crisis
• orbisvicis 1y ago
  What's everyone's thoughts on the GHF? They're the only way that food officially enters Gaza. IDF is not supposed to be immediately present at the distribution sites, and yet are shooting civilians. As are contractors hired by GHF. In fact there are cases of nationals joining IDF for the explicit purpose of shooting civilians, seemingly. There are movements to disband the GHF, but how else would Gazans eat?
  • AuthAuth 1y ago
    The reports that i've seen for most of those instances are reporting shootings of people on the way to a GHF site and one shooting at the site at night.
  • fahhem 1y ago
    > how else would Gazans eat? UNRWA, WFP, etc. You know, the ones with decades of experience in Gaza and other war zones with sites, warehouses, and all the other infrastructure necessary to support a population under siege.
    • nailer 1y ago
      > UNRWA The one that has a unique definiton of 'refugee' that doesn't correspond with UNs the normal definition of the term? Where many of the staff work for Hamas? Where their schools teach children to be martyrs? The one many countries have halted funding for because of this? If you want the UN, fine, UNHCR, the normal UN refugee agency.
      • bigyabai 1y ago
        Since when did the UN's definitions start mattering to Israel, all of the sudden? That's a new development I haven't heard yet, tell me more about it.
        • nailer 1y ago
          UNRWAs definition is different from UNHCR because it allows them to claim buildings in Gaza are ‘refugee camps’ and to claim refugee status for people who are safely resettled.
• tehjoker 1y ago
  This was utterly predictable. GHF is a mercenary front plan developed by Israel and implemented by the United States to displace UNRWA so they can starve Palestinians and draw them into zones that are easier to ethnically cleanse. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-backed-aid-group-proposed-human-transit-areas-palestinians-gaza-2025-07-07/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-backed-aid-grou...
• edsammy 1y ago
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  • dang 1y ago
    I tried to address this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44718396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44718396. If you read that and some of the links there and still want more information, I'd be happy to try. On the other hand, if you just feel like this isn't the site you want HN to be, I hear that and, yeah, sorry. It's kind of been this way since forever (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869).
• EchoReflection 1y ago
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  • asdefghyk 1y ago
    It is said, that the first causality of a war is truth. We do not know what is true and what is not.
    • EchoReflection 1y ago
      That is a great quote, but we do know that it is "true" that Hamas started the war when they attacked Israel on October 7th and took many Israelis hostage :(
• 01100011 1y ago
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• yieldcrv 1y ago
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• 23david 1y ago
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  • dang 1y ago
    HN has always hosted a certain number of stories with political overlap, and the principles of how that works are pretty stable. I posted about this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44718396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44718396. If you (or anyone) want to understand how we approach this, I suggest reading that comment and some of the links there, and then if you still have a question that hasn't been answered, Tom or I will be happy to take a crack at it.
  • sschueller 1y ago
    Why? There is a lot of cross over from companies profiting to our tech being used to execute this. We should not put a complete blind eye to atrocities being committed indirectly by all of us.
    • tomhow 1y ago
      There doesn't have to be a tech angle for a story to be on-topic for HN. Plenty of stories on the front page at any time are not at all tech-related (e.g., articles about history, psychology, philosophy, literature, etc). The guiding principle is simply that it engages intellectual curiosity.
  • Takennickname 1y ago
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    • dang 1y ago
      We ban accounts for posting racial attacks, which seems to me the most likely interpretation of your comment. I'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt, but please don't do this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  • DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
• solidsnack9000 1y ago
  For everyone in this thread hoping for a "Marshall Plan" or other functional aid regime for Gaza, keep in mind that the Marshall Plan began with defeat. It was only with Germany's unconditional surrender that the Allies could establish security and make a plan for the future. Hamas has had many opportunities to surrender and hasn't taken them. Hitler had many opportunities, as well; but chose not to. Surrender was not a choice the Allies could make for him or for Germany; and it is not a choice Israel can make for Hamas or Gaza.
  • sudopluto 1y ago
    one could argue, that with hamas de facto defeated and now rival gangs rising up to take power, israel could unilaterally ceasefire and hold elections for a new government to run the strip. hamas, if they pop up again, are disposed of with both domestic and IDF forces. the main problem is that doing so would probably result in the death of the hostages. hamas wants to stay in power, even if gaza is reduced to sand, they will hold onto the hostages until their power, even over nothing but skeletons, is assured. the IDF could continue to engage on hamas's terms, or it could make the heartbreaking decision to give up on the hostages and focus on saving the innocent gazan civilians.
    • 4gotunameagain 1y ago
      After all these atrocities, even with Hamas completely gone the hatred for Israel will remain. This war will not stop, only pause. Imagine all the kids that are growing up in Gaza now, witnessing so much pain, misery and death. How on earth could they forgive Israel, especially as it continues to invade and occupy their territories ?
      • sudopluto 1y ago
        The Germans did, because they love their children more than they hate their enemies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_German...
• surume 1y ago
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• saneshark 1y ago
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  • elzbardico 1y ago
    They killed a whole apartment block in which the scientist lived.
  • misja111 1y ago
    Ok I'm by no means a fan of what the Israeli government is doing in Gaza, but I'll play the Devil's advocate here. - those missiles targeting those Iranian scientists caused more casualties than just the scientists - those 60,000 Palestinians were not all innocent. Sure, most were, but a substantial percentage of them were Hamas fighters Again, I don't agree with Israel's approach and in particular not the targeted starvation of the Gaza population, but it's good to keep all facts straight.
• surume 1y ago
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• doron2402 1y ago
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  • pydry 1y ago
    The evidence has become overwhelming now. Genocide denial in Gaza has become equivalent to holocaust denial - just another racist trope.
  • IncreasePosts 1y ago
    Maybe it's because Israel is viewed as a "modern"/"western" nation, and shouldn't be doing these kinds of things, whereas Sudan and Congo are not. Hamas had it coming, but I'm not sure much can explain the starvation random children are experiencing, that they weren't before, except Israel trying to extract some toll on the Palestinian people. I think anti semitism is more common than it appears on the surface level, even when people say "criticizing Israel isn't criticizing Jews in general", but a lot of it actually is. But that doesn't explain all criticism. This sounds weird to say, but I'm actually okay with kids getting blown up in bombings if there were legitimate military targets there and no other choice. But starvation takes a long, concerted effort to effect.
• danneezhao 1y ago
  Those in power care only about their own power; everything else is expendable
• ashoeafoot 1y ago
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• buyucu 1y ago
  I witnessed war crimes in Gaza just by watching the vidoes on Tiktok, Telegram and other sites. Israel is not even trying to hide the mass murder they are committing.
• maskil 1y ago
  Why is there an Israel exception to politics on HN?
  • Zacharias030 1y ago
    because genocide.
  • regularization 1y ago
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  • tomhow 1y ago
    We have politics on HN all the time. Dang wrote a comment today explaining our thoughts about this story: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44715823 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44715823
• TheAceOfHearts 1y ago
  I don't really understand how this conflict has been dragged out for so long. It seems like with all the external global support, it should be possible to bring enough world leaders together to hammer out a peace treaty. Current strategies of applying external pressure and protesting appear to be largely ineffective. There's so many people who wield immense power and wealth, but they seem unwilling to take direct action to put a stop to this conflict, they just sit in the sidelines like low-agency players. If there's a trusted neutral party that people could rally behind, then it would just be a matter of coordinating behind them and pushing a focused message of bringing all relevant leaders to the negotiation table in order to design a framework that builds towards peace in the area.
  • buyucu 1y ago
    Israel will not be satisfied with anything less than the complete eradication of the Palestinian people. It is hard to make peace when one side is hell-bent on mass murder.
    • sc970 1y ago
      "It is hard to make peace when one side is hell-bent on mass murder." Is this referring to the Hamas Charter? Suspect it is a typo and you meant to say both sides.
      • Zacharias030 1y ago
        Mass murder through starvation and shooting children at aid stations.
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• sharpshadow 1y ago
  “Move the people out and then clean it up” Jared Kushner [0] His investment firm got 2 billion dollars from the Saudis to invest in Israel. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nneWrllngAU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nneWrllngAU Edit: When he says Gaza waterfront property he means the natural gas reserves. [1] 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_the_Gaza_Stri...
• zhengiszen 1y ago
  The same genocidal and neocolonialism...
• nailer 1y ago
  Posting at the top to point out that if you saw the image of a starving child recently, you’re looking at images of a child with a genetic disorder and you should reconsider which media you consume. You can also find more images of Mohammed al-Mutawaq, an 18-month-old with cerebral palsy, with his healthier sibling - which was cropped by the media to exaggerate claims of starvation.
  • justacrow 1y ago
    Here is a picture of Yazan, 2 (article from today): https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/un-agencies-warn-key-food-and-nutrition-indicators-exceed-famine-thresholds-gaza https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/un-agencies-warn-key-f... Here is a picture of a child and others begging for food at an aid center (also today): https://www.npr.org/2025/07/29/g-s1-79039/gaza-children-starvation-health-risks https://www.npr.org/2025/07/29/g-s1-79039/gaza-children-star... Here's Siwar Ashoura (14th May): https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjdznz727z8o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjdznz727z8o Here's what Ahmed el-Sheikh Eid, seven, looks like (4th of May): https://www.npr.org/2025/07/29/g-s1-79039/gaza-children-starvation-health-risks https://www.npr.org/2025/07/29/g-s1-79039/gaza-children-star... Here's Osama, lying in a hospital (April 25th): https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-malnutrition-children-blockade-israel-1.7524680 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-malnutrition-children-blo... If you see these or other pictures of starving children, you are looking at images of children intentionally being starved by Israel, and you should reconsider what you think of their methods and intentions.
    • nailer 1y ago
      > Here's Osama, lying in a hospital (April 25th) Osama al-Rakab has cystic fibrosis. Again you should consider unfollowing CBC. https://x.com/DahliaKurtz/status/1949802614507368958 https://x.com/DahliaKurtz/status/1949802614507368958 > Here is a picture of Yazan, 2 (article from today) Who also has a medical condition, and whose mother and father are very clearly not starving https://x.com/ApostateProphet/status/1764033775862698302 https://x.com/ApostateProphet/status/1764033775862698302. You should consider unfollowing Unicef too.
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