5 ms·

I understand wanting to make the organization more efficient, but i don't think this is what's happening here. I think this is the classic republican strat of g

by samrus 1y ago

I understand wanting to make the organization more efficient, but i don't think this is what's happening here. I think this is the classic republican strat of gutting federal agencies, pointing to the inefficiencies caused by the loss of institutional knowledge, and using that as an excuse to privatize to their friends. The fact that Elon's DOGE suggested these cuts lines up

nine_zeros 1y ago
[flagged]
- Arubis 1y ago
  That particular playbook long predates Trump: campaign on the ineffectiveness and incompetence of government and, once elected, prove it—with ineffectiveness and incompetence. Repeat ad infinium.
  - nine_zeros 1y ago
    Yes, it predates trump. But prior to trump, Republican voters would hold their representatives accountable. Today, trump's cult is so brainwashed that they are completely ok with pedophilia, internment camps, destruction of services, destruction of science - literally willing to burn American society to ground so that Trump continues in office. Their priority is Trump and not America. Which is why no one can take republican voters seriously.
    - kstrauser 1y ago
      > Republican voters would hold their representatives accountable. I don’t think that’s accurate, unless it was for a crime they just couldn’t forgive. Debacle in the Middle East? Stay the course and re-elect Bush. Find out a senator had a gay experiment once? Out, so to speak. You’ve been able to do what you want within the GOP for decades, so long as it’s Old Testament compliant.
      - matthewdgreen 1y ago
        I'm going to actually push back on this. Yes, the 2004 election was depressing. But if you take a quick look at George W. Bush's approval rating, you'll see it was extremely low even before the financial crisis in late 2007 [1]. The war in Iraq was really unpopular during his second term. If you look at the electoral map in 2008, you'll also see Obama winning states that we can't even imagine a Democrat winning, because people used to be more open to voting for the other side. Politics in America has changed in a big way, and GOP politics has changed wildly. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ra... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidentia...
  - parineum 1y ago
    CA has been a one party state minus a couple governors my entire life. You'd think the Democrats would have this place running like a well oiled machine by now.
    - Eisenstein 1y ago
      Why would you think that? No one is saying that the Democrats are good at anything. This is not a algebra, taking something from one side doesn't get added to the other.
      - cosmic_cheese 1y ago
        Worth mentioning that democrats have their own issues bogging things down, such as internal splintering, state gov fighting NIMBY-aligned local gov, localities throwing tantrums if they’re not included (big factor in the SF ↔ LA rail project), etc.
    - unnamed76ri 1y ago
      The oil for those machines would have to be a special CA blend that costs double though.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  > As an example, they gutted NC DMV. So quality of service and wait times deteriorated. Then they go out and say that government doesn't work - must be sold to their private owner buddies. They’re suggesting the DMV is privatized? Can you share a link?
  - Tadpole9181 1y ago
    It's the first result on Google for "NC privatize DMV". https://www.carolinajournal.com/nc-house-moves-toward-privatizing-dmv/ https://www.carolinajournal.com/nc-house-moves-toward-privat... > The North Carolina House has officially taken a first step toward privatizing the infamously mismanaged Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV), as issues and customer complaints have persisted for years. > The proposed budget released on Monday includes a provision that would begin the process of privatizing DMV services by creating a new pilot program to allow third-party vendors to handle driver’s license renewals, a function traditionally managed solely by the state. > The reforms come amid increasing legislative pressure to modernize DMV operations. State leaders have repeatedly criticized the DMV’s operations, arguing that the division “would be out of business if it were in the private sector.” With no notable improvement in sight, Rep. Jake Johnson, R-Polk, has been behind the push for legislative action. Earlier this year, he proposed overhauling the DMV’s structure by taking it out of the Department of Transportation.
    - Aurornis 1y ago
      I’m reading the bill. This is saying they’ll authorize private services to renew licenses in parallel with the public DMV.
      - lupusreal 1y ago
        Washington state has something like that. It doesn't seem so bad.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
- mandeepj 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - intermerda 1y ago
    Conservatism is decent into degeneracy, not simply stasis.
- waltbosz 1y ago
  Is the privatized NC DMV any better than the public one? I was just at the Delaware DMV getting my 2 vehicles inspected and registration renewed, and while not an entirely horrible experience, it did seem like there were a lot of inefficiencies and complacentcy. I've also noticed the difference in the US post offices around me and the FedEx stores and wonder why the post offices aren't nicer customer experiences.
  - nine_zeros 1y ago
    > Is the privatized NC DMV any better than the public one? Nobody knows. But the only things guaranteed are: - service prices will rise because now shareholders will seek a return every year. - AI powered elevator music phone service where you must wait 30 mins before reaching a human. - Fees and costs for every interaction. - Workers will be encouraged to do work fast - by providing less service to people, asking people to come over and over again - More lobbying to reduce license and registration durations because they need people to constantly renew to collect fees and profits. About FedEx, I don't know why you think US post offices are bad. I personally find USPS to be astonishingly high quality and decent humans. FedEx is decent quality but 10x higher prices than USPS.
    - Aurornis 1y ago
      > Nobody knows. But the only things guaranteed are: Ironic that you jump from “nobody knows” to statements where you’re absolutely sure that it’s worse. Your “guarantees” aren’t even consistent with the language of the authorization. They aren’t giving these services carte blanche to define their own laws and processes. They’re just allowing someone else to execute part of the process. It’s hard to have these conversations when one side is arguing based on ideological abstract ideas, not the actual language of the bill. > FedEx is decent quality but 10x higher prices than USPS. I ship a lot of packages and use a service that quotes from USPS, UPS, and FedEx. It’s plainly false to claim that FedEx has 10X higher prices. This is just factually incorrect. FedEx comes out as the lowest price for maybe 1/4 or 1/5 of my shipments. It’s hard to trust someone’s arguments when they’re making egregiously false claims like this.
- giantg2 1y ago
  "As an example, they gutted NC DMV." When did that happen? I didn't see anything saying they were taking anything away. I saw they increased pay by 5%, authorized retention bonus, and are supposed to add about a 5% increase in the number of license workers. You could just increase pay by $20k and add another 100 workers, but that ignores concerns about operational inefficiency and outdated technology. It will be interesting to see if the privatized pilot increases efficiency or not. I wouldn't hold my breath, but we'll see.
  - jzb 1y ago
    The population of NC has grown about 30% in the last 20 years, but staffing has been capped. Wait times to get a license are ridiculous. https://www.wral.com/consumer/5onyourside/ncdmv-long-waits-delays-north-carolina-march-2025/ https://www.wral.com/consumer/5onyourside/ncdmv-long-waits-d...
    - giantg2 1y ago
      Yes, and they can't even fill the positions they have under that cap. '“Whether the root cause is a lack of money, that’s still to be determined. Or whether it’s how we’re spending the money that’s already appropriated,” Boliek said.' From your article.
      - nine_zeros 1y ago
        > Yes, and they can't even fill the positions they have under that cap. Yes, they can't even fill positions - that is how incompetent Republicans are.
        nothercastle 1y ago
        If it cap salary at 2000 levels then that you won’t be able to fill. That’s happening all over the federal government. The pay is so low the only way the compensation works is if employees do the bare minimum
- Herring 1y ago
  They've been doing this for generations. In a nutshell that's why the US South is so poor. They build infrastructure for political/economic exclusion, and they tear down anything that even hints at inclusiveness. So the rich get richer, and everyone else suffers. Trump won the popular vote. I think the reasonable people need to open their eyes and learn that Republicans won't ever change.
- Henchman21 1y ago
  You can't open your eyes when you work 50 hours a week, take care of kids, and are addicted to your smartphone. Wanna get people to open their eyes? Start taking data centers offline.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  The flip side of that complaint is Democrats stuffing government bureaucracies with do-nothing jobs for their buddies. Both sides play in this cesspool. It would be nice if we as a nation could just do the work that needs to be done for the people without all of those games but it never has really been that way.
  - jzb 1y ago
    Citation sorely needed. Take the both sidesism somewhere else.
  - debatem1 1y ago
    > Democrats stuffing government bureaucracies with do-nothing jobs for their buddies Ignoring the partisanship this argument doesn't make sense on its face: government jobs pay extremely poorly. You might say "well what if you hold more than one of them?", but you can't do that: a federal employee can be employed in two different roles, but their pay is capped at 40 hours a week across the federal government. Anyone keen on that level of grift has vastly better options in the private sector.
    - aerostable_slug 1y ago
      What are you on about? Government work is a wonderful career opportunity for the non-HN crowd. These are often people of at best average intelligence and near zero ambition who want a cushy career that you can't be fired from unless you punch a supervisor (and even then it's tough). There are wonderful people in government, I've worked with them. But there are a ton of people along for the ride and it's absolutely insane to argue the opposite given hundreds of thousands of government employees on cruise control. Plenty of folks would (and do) love a GS-scale gig that requires nearly no work and provides terrific bennies. They were never going to work for FAANG or another high-payer anyway. And many of the people "in on the grift" are constituents, not donors.
      - const_cast 1y ago
        No It's not. The pay, job per job, is significantly lower across the public sector. You take a massive pay-cut. I don't know what lied to you and told you it's "cushy", but it's definitely not. Also, you can absolutely be fired for performance. In fact, across the public sector probationary periods are typically longer than in the private sector. Meaning, it's actually easier for you to get fired. These are the types of things people just sort of... make up... and then other people run with it because they like how it sounds and it reaffirms their ideology.
- QuantumGood 1y ago
  "People really need to open their eyes" This is not a prescription when the diagnosis is propaganda. The "solution" for individuals is more akin to deprogramming, and a systemic solution is large organizations (including government) fighting the ability for any media to be nearly 100% propaganda. Unfortunately, for many reasons, including social media, and individuals believing that others could simply "wake up" being a solution, practical systemic solutions don't exist / require new approaches.
- Fade_Dance 1y ago
  The NC DMV situation was hilariously bad when I had a short stint there. Appointments were over a month out. People would come with camping chairs at 6:00 a.m. and hope to maybe get let in. People were there for many many hours and some people came back for many days on end.
- ApolloFortyNine 1y ago
  >As an example, they gutted NC DMV. So quality of service and wait times deteriorated. The dmv experience has been the butt of jokes for decades, unless your referencing some action from 50 years ago I think you need a better example.
juujian 1y ago
None of this is efficiency. Our local NOAA office has lost their sparse janitorial staff. That doesn't make the agency more efficient. That just means an overworked person making 6 figures now has to figure out how to procure toilet paper and get the bathrooms fixed. It's obstructing people eager to do important work while marginally reducing cost, that's all it is.
- jgilias 1y ago
  I don’t think it actually reduces costs if someone better paid is now doing it instead.
  - rekrsiv 1y ago
    It's not about reducing costs, it's about funding the tax breaks for the rich.
    - CamperBob2 1y ago
      No, that particular act of stupidity is about fucking up NOAA so it can be privatized by Trump cronies, while simultaneously burying "inconvenient truths" that inconvenience the same people. Defunding NASA is about the tax cuts. NOAA is different.
      - stogot 1y ago
        Side note: Inconvenient Truth documentary might have actually been more widely accepted if it wasn’t a political ad for Al Gore
        scoreandmore 1y ago
        There’s the problem. It wasn’t a political ad for Al Gore, it was published 8 years before he ran. It just so happened he was actually interested in improving things and leaning on smarter people for policy, but that made half the country go “Eeeewww… facts! Elitism!! we want someone dumber we can have a beer with for president!” That was literally an argument in the 2000 election: who would you rather drink with. Then GWB put on his yokel hat and yokel accent and dumbed it down so that people wouldn’t be scared. Instead of voting for someone with a plan, they voted for some rich cokehead fail-son from the Bush dynasty because he seemed more “of the people”. But Al Gore takes the flak for trying to raise awareness. Unbelievable how dumb this country is as a whole. And 10x dumber now that the current POTUS is unwriting history at rocket’s pace.
foobarbecue 1y ago
Plus now we're paying everyone full salary to not work for many months. Complete waste.
noobermin 1y ago
It's not worth making this point anymore. Bannon et al have been explicit for decades now they want to destroy the federal government. It's ideological, that's it quite simply. All these discussions about efficiency, even more so the debt given they just blew up the debt to never before seen levels just shows that sincerity is not deserved when talking to Rs.
- jzb 1y ago
  It is worth making the point: a lot of people simply don’t see it (yet?) for what it is and still support the people doing it.
  - pimlottc 1y ago
    I think GP's point is that it's achingly difficult to believe anyone at this point still buys into the "efficiency" bullshit. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 20 times...
    - pixelpoet 1y ago
      > fool me 20 times... ... I'll vote for you again! Seems to be how that saying goes these days; and here I thought Bush had the dumbest possible ending for it.
  - treis 1y ago
    Because this is more like dialing it back to pre-covid: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES9091000001 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES9091000001 Unfortunately the two choices are expansion and haphazard reduction
    - vlovich123 1y ago
      I don’t know why the number of employees is a problem when the reduction is offset by instead contracting out that work and just needing to also pay middlemen for that work. It’s the worst of both worlds.
    - 1y ago
poemxo 1y ago
This makes sense. A GS doesn't earn that much, but if they resign and go work for SpaceX and get paid as a contractor, doesn't this just cost the taxpayer more?
- OrvalWintermute 1y ago
  The normal formula we use is a range from 1.8x to 2.4x for fully loaded contractor labor rates based on contractor salary. I presume we’ll be paying up to $576,000 for a senior engineer (GS15) equivalent from SpaceX
onepremise 1y ago
It's all part of the plan, which is referred to as the butterfly revolution, by Curtis Yarvin. Leaders that have literally invested in this platform are buying into this nonsense. Peter Theil, JD Vance, Marc Andreesen, Garry Tan, Srinivasan, and many others, wanting to overthrow democracy and dissolve nation states. This effort is to establish Network States with those that worship them, sycophants and cults. They want to transform the US into an Autocracy. The polarization of the media and political parties is on purpose. They want America to fall. It's not a secret, not a conspiracy theory. It's definitely being rolled out by billionaires. It would be wise for others here to really do your research and understand why we are being polarized to hate each other. Enter butterfly revolution: 1. Reboot (“full-power start”) Suspend or bypass existing constitutional limits; concentrate absolute sovereignty in one new organization—analogous to Allied occupation powers in post-1945 Japan/Germany. Eliminate checks and balances that block rapid change. 2. CEO-Monarch model A single executive (chosen like a corporate CEO) rules; the former president becomes a figurehead “chairman of the board.” Treat the state as a firm run for efficiency, not democratic representation. 3. RAGE strategy “Retire All Government Employees” by mass-firing the civil service and replacing it with loyal appointees. Remove institutional resistance (“the Cathedral”) and ensure obedience. 4. Parallel regime Build a fully staffed shadow government in exile before inauguration; unveil it on Day 1 to take over agencies at once. Prevent the bureaucratic slow-rolling that stymied Trump’s first term. 5. Media & academia clampdown Defund or shutter universities and independent press seen as hostile. Break what Yarvin calls the Cathedral’s cultural dominance. Resources: "The Straussian Moment", https://www.hoover.org/research/peter-thiel-straussian-moment https://www.hoover.org/research/peter-thiel-straussian-momen... Freedom Cities in Trumps presser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJA_GBhCGgE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJA_GBhCGgE Billionaire example: https://www.praxisnation.com https://www.praxisnation.com Apocalypse Now? Peter Thiel on Ancient Prophecies and Modern Tec, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqHueZNEzig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqHueZNEzig A.I., Mars and Immortality: Are We Dreaming Big Enough? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV7YgnPUxcU&t=404s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV7YgnPUxcU&t=404s https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/18/magazine/curtis-yarvin-interview.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/18/magazine/curtis-yarvin-in... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2008/11/patchwork-positive-vision-part-1/ https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2008/11/patchwork-p...

by samrus 1y ago

nine_zeros 1y ago

[flagged]

Arubis 1y ago
That particular playbook long predates Trump: campaign on the ineffectiveness and incompetence of government and, once elected, prove it—with ineffectiveness and incompetence. Repeat ad infinium.
- nine_zeros 1y ago
  Yes, it predates trump. But prior to trump, Republican voters would hold their representatives accountable. Today, trump's cult is so brainwashed that they are completely ok with pedophilia, internment camps, destruction of services, destruction of science - literally willing to burn American society to ground so that Trump continues in office. Their priority is Trump and not America. Which is why no one can take republican voters seriously.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    > Republican voters would hold their representatives accountable. I don’t think that’s accurate, unless it was for a crime they just couldn’t forgive. Debacle in the Middle East? Stay the course and re-elect Bush. Find out a senator had a gay experiment once? Out, so to speak. You’ve been able to do what you want within the GOP for decades, so long as it’s Old Testament compliant.
    - matthewdgreen 1y ago
      I'm going to actually push back on this. Yes, the 2004 election was depressing. But if you take a quick look at George W. Bush's approval rating, you'll see it was extremely low even before the financial crisis in late 2007 [1]. The war in Iraq was really unpopular during his second term. If you look at the electoral map in 2008, you'll also see Obama winning states that we can't even imagine a Democrat winning, because people used to be more open to voting for the other side. Politics in America has changed in a big way, and GOP politics has changed wildly. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ra... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidentia...
- parineum 1y ago
  CA has been a one party state minus a couple governors my entire life. You'd think the Democrats would have this place running like a well oiled machine by now.
  - Eisenstein 1y ago
    Why would you think that? No one is saying that the Democrats are good at anything. This is not a algebra, taking something from one side doesn't get added to the other.
    - cosmic_cheese 1y ago
      Worth mentioning that democrats have their own issues bogging things down, such as internal splintering, state gov fighting NIMBY-aligned local gov, localities throwing tantrums if they’re not included (big factor in the SF ↔ LA rail project), etc.
  - unnamed76ri 1y ago
    The oil for those machines would have to be a special CA blend that costs double though.
Aurornis 1y ago
> As an example, they gutted NC DMV. So quality of service and wait times deteriorated. Then they go out and say that government doesn't work - must be sold to their private owner buddies. They’re suggesting the DMV is privatized? Can you share a link?
- Tadpole9181 1y ago
  It's the first result on Google for "NC privatize DMV". https://www.carolinajournal.com/nc-house-moves-toward-privatizing-dmv/ https://www.carolinajournal.com/nc-house-moves-toward-privat... > The North Carolina House has officially taken a first step toward privatizing the infamously mismanaged Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV), as issues and customer complaints have persisted for years. > The proposed budget released on Monday includes a provision that would begin the process of privatizing DMV services by creating a new pilot program to allow third-party vendors to handle driver’s license renewals, a function traditionally managed solely by the state. > The reforms come amid increasing legislative pressure to modernize DMV operations. State leaders have repeatedly criticized the DMV’s operations, arguing that the division “would be out of business if it were in the private sector.” With no notable improvement in sight, Rep. Jake Johnson, R-Polk, has been behind the push for legislative action. Earlier this year, he proposed overhauling the DMV’s structure by taking it out of the Department of Transportation.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    I’m reading the bill. This is saying they’ll authorize private services to renew licenses in parallel with the public DMV.
    - lupusreal 1y ago
      Washington state has something like that. It doesn't seem so bad.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
mandeepj 1y ago
[flagged]
- intermerda 1y ago
  Conservatism is decent into degeneracy, not simply stasis.
waltbosz 1y ago
Is the privatized NC DMV any better than the public one? I was just at the Delaware DMV getting my 2 vehicles inspected and registration renewed, and while not an entirely horrible experience, it did seem like there were a lot of inefficiencies and complacentcy. I've also noticed the difference in the US post offices around me and the FedEx stores and wonder why the post offices aren't nicer customer experiences.
- nine_zeros 1y ago
  > Is the privatized NC DMV any better than the public one? Nobody knows. But the only things guaranteed are: - service prices will rise because now shareholders will seek a return every year. - AI powered elevator music phone service where you must wait 30 mins before reaching a human. - Fees and costs for every interaction. - Workers will be encouraged to do work fast - by providing less service to people, asking people to come over and over again - More lobbying to reduce license and registration durations because they need people to constantly renew to collect fees and profits. About FedEx, I don't know why you think US post offices are bad. I personally find USPS to be astonishingly high quality and decent humans. FedEx is decent quality but 10x higher prices than USPS.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    > Nobody knows. But the only things guaranteed are: Ironic that you jump from “nobody knows” to statements where you’re absolutely sure that it’s worse. Your “guarantees” aren’t even consistent with the language of the authorization. They aren’t giving these services carte blanche to define their own laws and processes. They’re just allowing someone else to execute part of the process. It’s hard to have these conversations when one side is arguing based on ideological abstract ideas, not the actual language of the bill. > FedEx is decent quality but 10x higher prices than USPS. I ship a lot of packages and use a service that quotes from USPS, UPS, and FedEx. It’s plainly false to claim that FedEx has 10X higher prices. This is just factually incorrect. FedEx comes out as the lowest price for maybe 1/4 or 1/5 of my shipments. It’s hard to trust someone’s arguments when they’re making egregiously false claims like this.
giantg2 1y ago
"As an example, they gutted NC DMV." When did that happen? I didn't see anything saying they were taking anything away. I saw they increased pay by 5%, authorized retention bonus, and are supposed to add about a 5% increase in the number of license workers. You could just increase pay by $20k and add another 100 workers, but that ignores concerns about operational inefficiency and outdated technology. It will be interesting to see if the privatized pilot increases efficiency or not. I wouldn't hold my breath, but we'll see.
- jzb 1y ago
  The population of NC has grown about 30% in the last 20 years, but staffing has been capped. Wait times to get a license are ridiculous. https://www.wral.com/consumer/5onyourside/ncdmv-long-waits-delays-north-carolina-march-2025/ https://www.wral.com/consumer/5onyourside/ncdmv-long-waits-d...
  - giantg2 1y ago
    Yes, and they can't even fill the positions they have under that cap. '“Whether the root cause is a lack of money, that’s still to be determined. Or whether it’s how we’re spending the money that’s already appropriated,” Boliek said.' From your article.
    - nine_zeros 1y ago
      > Yes, and they can't even fill the positions they have under that cap. Yes, they can't even fill positions - that is how incompetent Republicans are.
      - nothercastle 1y ago
        If it cap salary at 2000 levels then that you won’t be able to fill. That’s happening all over the federal government. The pay is so low the only way the compensation works is if employees do the bare minimum
Herring 1y ago
They've been doing this for generations. In a nutshell that's why the US South is so poor. They build infrastructure for political/economic exclusion, and they tear down anything that even hints at inclusiveness. So the rich get richer, and everyone else suffers. Trump won the popular vote. I think the reasonable people need to open their eyes and learn that Republicans won't ever change.
Henchman21 1y ago
You can't open your eyes when you work 50 hours a week, take care of kids, and are addicted to your smartphone. Wanna get people to open their eyes? Start taking data centers offline.
SoftTalker 1y ago
The flip side of that complaint is Democrats stuffing government bureaucracies with do-nothing jobs for their buddies. Both sides play in this cesspool. It would be nice if we as a nation could just do the work that needs to be done for the people without all of those games but it never has really been that way.
- jzb 1y ago
  Citation sorely needed. Take the both sidesism somewhere else.
- debatem1 1y ago
  > Democrats stuffing government bureaucracies with do-nothing jobs for their buddies Ignoring the partisanship this argument doesn't make sense on its face: government jobs pay extremely poorly. You might say "well what if you hold more than one of them?", but you can't do that: a federal employee can be employed in two different roles, but their pay is capped at 40 hours a week across the federal government. Anyone keen on that level of grift has vastly better options in the private sector.
  - aerostable_slug 1y ago
    What are you on about? Government work is a wonderful career opportunity for the non-HN crowd. These are often people of at best average intelligence and near zero ambition who want a cushy career that you can't be fired from unless you punch a supervisor (and even then it's tough). There are wonderful people in government, I've worked with them. But there are a ton of people along for the ride and it's absolutely insane to argue the opposite given hundreds of thousands of government employees on cruise control. Plenty of folks would (and do) love a GS-scale gig that requires nearly no work and provides terrific bennies. They were never going to work for FAANG or another high-payer anyway. And many of the people "in on the grift" are constituents, not donors.
    - const_cast 1y ago
      No It's not. The pay, job per job, is significantly lower across the public sector. You take a massive pay-cut. I don't know what lied to you and told you it's "cushy", but it's definitely not. Also, you can absolutely be fired for performance. In fact, across the public sector probationary periods are typically longer than in the private sector. Meaning, it's actually easier for you to get fired. These are the types of things people just sort of... make up... and then other people run with it because they like how it sounds and it reaffirms their ideology.
QuantumGood 1y ago
"People really need to open their eyes" This is not a prescription when the diagnosis is propaganda. The "solution" for individuals is more akin to deprogramming, and a systemic solution is large organizations (including government) fighting the ability for any media to be nearly 100% propaganda. Unfortunately, for many reasons, including social media, and individuals believing that others could simply "wake up" being a solution, practical systemic solutions don't exist / require new approaches.
Fade_Dance 1y ago
The NC DMV situation was hilariously bad when I had a short stint there. Appointments were over a month out. People would come with camping chairs at 6:00 a.m. and hope to maybe get let in. People were there for many many hours and some people came back for many days on end.
ApolloFortyNine 1y ago
>As an example, they gutted NC DMV. So quality of service and wait times deteriorated. The dmv experience has been the butt of jokes for decades, unless your referencing some action from 50 years ago I think you need a better example.

juujian 1y ago

None of this is efficiency. Our local NOAA office has lost their sparse janitorial staff. That doesn't make the agency more efficient. That just means an overworked person making 6 figures now has to figure out how to procure toilet paper and get the bathrooms fixed. It's obstructing people eager to do important work while marginally reducing cost, that's all it is.

jgilias 1y ago
I don’t think it actually reduces costs if someone better paid is now doing it instead.
- rekrsiv 1y ago
  It's not about reducing costs, it's about funding the tax breaks for the rich.
  - CamperBob2 1y ago
    No, that particular act of stupidity is about fucking up NOAA so it can be privatized by Trump cronies, while simultaneously burying "inconvenient truths" that inconvenience the same people. Defunding NASA is about the tax cuts. NOAA is different.
    - stogot 1y ago
      Side note: Inconvenient Truth documentary might have actually been more widely accepted if it wasn’t a political ad for Al Gore
      - scoreandmore 1y ago
        There’s the problem. It wasn’t a political ad for Al Gore, it was published 8 years before he ran. It just so happened he was actually interested in improving things and leaning on smarter people for policy, but that made half the country go “Eeeewww… facts! Elitism!! we want someone dumber we can have a beer with for president!” That was literally an argument in the 2000 election: who would you rather drink with. Then GWB put on his yokel hat and yokel accent and dumbed it down so that people wouldn’t be scared. Instead of voting for someone with a plan, they voted for some rich cokehead fail-son from the Bush dynasty because he seemed more “of the people”. But Al Gore takes the flak for trying to raise awareness. Unbelievable how dumb this country is as a whole. And 10x dumber now that the current POTUS is unwriting history at rocket’s pace.

foobarbecue 1y ago

Plus now we're paying everyone full salary to not work for many months. Complete waste.

noobermin 1y ago

It's not worth making this point anymore. Bannon et al have been explicit for decades now they want to destroy the federal government. It's ideological, that's it quite simply. All these discussions about efficiency, even more so the debt given they just blew up the debt to never before seen levels just shows that sincerity is not deserved when talking to Rs.

jzb 1y ago
It is worth making the point: a lot of people simply don’t see it (yet?) for what it is and still support the people doing it.
- pimlottc 1y ago
  I think GP's point is that it's achingly difficult to believe anyone at this point still buys into the "efficiency" bullshit. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 20 times...
  - pixelpoet 1y ago
    > fool me 20 times... ... I'll vote for you again! Seems to be how that saying goes these days; and here I thought Bush had the dumbest possible ending for it.
- treis 1y ago
  Because this is more like dialing it back to pre-covid: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES9091000001 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES9091000001 Unfortunately the two choices are expansion and haphazard reduction
  - vlovich123 1y ago
    I don’t know why the number of employees is a problem when the reduction is offset by instead contracting out that work and just needing to also pay middlemen for that work. It’s the worst of both worlds.
  - 1y ago

poemxo 1y ago

This makes sense. A GS doesn't earn that much, but if they resign and go work for SpaceX and get paid as a contractor, doesn't this just cost the taxpayer more?

OrvalWintermute 1y ago
The normal formula we use is a range from 1.8x to 2.4x for fully loaded contractor labor rates based on contractor salary. I presume we’ll be paying up to $576,000 for a senior engineer (GS15) equivalent from SpaceX

onepremise 1y ago

It's all part of the plan, which is referred to as the butterfly revolution, by Curtis Yarvin. Leaders that have literally invested in this platform are buying into this nonsense. Peter Theil, JD Vance, Marc Andreesen, Garry Tan, Srinivasan, and many others, wanting to overthrow democracy and dissolve nation states. This effort is to establish Network States with those that worship them, sycophants and cults. They want to transform the US into an Autocracy. The polarization of the media and political parties is on purpose. They want America to fall. It's not a secret, not a conspiracy theory. It's definitely being rolled out by billionaires. It would be wise for others here to really do your research and understand why we are being polarized to hate each other. Enter butterfly revolution: 1. Reboot (“full-power start”) Suspend or bypass existing constitutional limits; concentrate absolute sovereignty in one new organization—analogous to Allied occupation powers in post-1945 Japan/Germany. Eliminate checks and balances that block rapid change. 2. CEO-Monarch model A single executive (chosen like a corporate CEO) rules; the former president becomes a figurehead “chairman of the board.” Treat the state as a firm run for efficiency, not democratic representation. 3. RAGE strategy “Retire All Government Employees” by mass-firing the civil service and replacing it with loyal appointees. Remove institutional resistance (“the Cathedral”) and ensure obedience. 4. Parallel regime Build a fully staffed shadow government in exile before inauguration; unveil it on Day 1 to take over agencies at once. Prevent the bureaucratic slow-rolling that stymied Trump’s first term. 5. Media & academia clampdown Defund or shutter universities and independent press seen as hostile. Break what Yarvin calls the Cathedral’s cultural dominance. Resources: "The Straussian Moment", https://www.hoover.org/research/peter-thiel-straussian-moment https://www.hoover.org/research/peter-thiel-straussian-momen... Freedom Cities in Trumps presser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJA_GBhCGgE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJA_GBhCGgE Billionaire example: https://www.praxisnation.com https://www.praxisnation.com Apocalypse Now? Peter Thiel on Ancient Prophecies and Modern Tec, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqHueZNEzig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqHueZNEzig A.I., Mars and Immortality: Are We Dreaming Big Enough? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV7YgnPUxcU&t=404s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV7YgnPUxcU&t=404s https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/18/magazine/curtis-yarvin-interview.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/18/magazine/curtis-yarvin-in... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2008/11/patchwork-positive-vision-part-1/ https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2008/11/patchwork-p...