3 ms·

Motor doping has been around for ages. Nothing new.

jeffbee 1y ago
Yeah, it's so common that literally nobody in high-level road cycling has ever been found doing it. "Motor doping" is the chupacabra: universally feared, never seen. The math doesn't even begin to pass the smell test, with regards to how much energy you'd get out of some tiny battery vs. the amount you'd spend dragging the dead battery around France all day.
- red369 1y ago
  Perhaps the math would make more sense if you swap the bike once the battery is depleted? I'm still not sure that the tiny battery would give enough of an advantage to be worth the risk - I don't know take enough interest in road racing to know. Oh - unless the peloton forget about the breakaway, then I take great interest! Love watching that race: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/25/anna-kiesenhofer-claims-shock-road-race-glory-as-van-vleuten-mistakes-silver-for-gold-olympics https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/25/anna-kiesenhof...
- tln 1y ago
  I agree it is rare - the UCI measures seem very effective. I'm not so sure about the math though, it is trivial for a motor+battery to exceed the 6-7 W/Kg sustained that a human can achieve, thus raising the total system W/Kg. Also consider that the lightest bikes are 5.5kg or so, and UCI has a minimum weight of 6.8 kg which gives "free weight" for these theoretical cheaters to use...
- luqtas 1y ago
  how about 0.5% performance increase on climbs? downhill, the more weight you have the better i guess.
  - 0_____0 1y ago
    Shall we do the math on this? Pogi's Zone 2 power is apparently around 320W. That puts his FTP around 500. Assume he's doing a climb at tempo, say 6W/kg based on system weight. The power density to beat for your mechanical doping device is 166g/W. But keep in mind, that's the power it has to do in order to just break even and not slow him down. Also the gains from your device are probably erased if Pogi forgets to poop before starting the stage.
    - jeffbee 1y ago
      And have you seen the man's bicycle? It is not as if you can just drop a couple of D cells down the seat tube.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- jancsika 1y ago
  > The math doesn't even begin to pass the smell test, with regards to how much energy you'd get out of some tiny battery vs. the amount you'd spend dragging the dead battery around France all day. But there's already evidence that some cyclists were at least dragging around exactly that much extra weight: > In the 2015 Tour de France, bikes in the peloton were weighed before one of the time trial stages. French authorities told us the British Team Sky was the only team with bikes heavier than the rest—each bike weighed about 800 grams more. A spokesman for Team Sky said that during a time trial stage bikes might be heavier to allow for better aerodynamic performance. He said the team has never used mechanical assistance and that the bikes were checked and cleared by the sports governing body.[1] That's 800 extra grams-- the same weight as Varjas' little hidden motor that he sold for $12,000. I'd find it quite strange if you think a hidden battery-powered motor doesn't pass the smell test, but dragging around the same weight for "aerodynamics" does pass the smell test. 1: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-investigates-hidden-motors-and-pro-cycling/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-investigates-hidden-...
  - jeffbee 1y ago
    Aero is basically the only thing that matters, second only to recruiting freak-show riders with horse lungs. These guys are averaging 40km/h. Have you seen Vingegaard's ridiculous mushroom helmet that's pushing the boundary between headwear and faring?
    - PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago
      Aero doesn't matter at all on hill climbs, they are going too slow there for that.
      - jeffbee 1y ago
        That wasn't the question. The question would be whether a team would trade mass for drag and the answer is clearly yes. Every elite team has lighter and heavier bikes that are suited to different events.
- rtkwe 1y ago
  Bikers swap bikes quite freely so that's not really an issue.
- IncreasePosts 1y ago
  It could be a capacitor charged when going down hill
amelius 1y ago
This is especially a thing in F1 racing. The least they can do is give all contestants the same equipment.

Yeah, it's so common that literally nobody in high-level road cycling has ever been found doing it. "Motor doping" is the chupacabra: universally feared, never seen. The math doesn't even begin to pass the smell test, with regards to how much energy you'd get out of some tiny battery vs. the amount you'd spend dragging the dead battery around France all day.

red369 1y ago
Perhaps the math would make more sense if you swap the bike once the battery is depleted? I'm still not sure that the tiny battery would give enough of an advantage to be worth the risk - I don't know take enough interest in road racing to know. Oh - unless the peloton forget about the breakaway, then I take great interest! Love watching that race: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/25/anna-kiesenhofer-claims-shock-road-race-glory-as-van-vleuten-mistakes-silver-for-gold-olympics https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/25/anna-kiesenhof...
tln 1y ago
I agree it is rare - the UCI measures seem very effective. I'm not so sure about the math though, it is trivial for a motor+battery to exceed the 6-7 W/Kg sustained that a human can achieve, thus raising the total system W/Kg. Also consider that the lightest bikes are 5.5kg or so, and UCI has a minimum weight of 6.8 kg which gives "free weight" for these theoretical cheaters to use...
luqtas 1y ago
how about 0.5% performance increase on climbs? downhill, the more weight you have the better i guess.
- 0_____0 1y ago
  Shall we do the math on this? Pogi's Zone 2 power is apparently around 320W. That puts his FTP around 500. Assume he's doing a climb at tempo, say 6W/kg based on system weight. The power density to beat for your mechanical doping device is 166g/W. But keep in mind, that's the power it has to do in order to just break even and not slow him down. Also the gains from your device are probably erased if Pogi forgets to poop before starting the stage.
  - jeffbee 1y ago
    And have you seen the man's bicycle? It is not as if you can just drop a couple of D cells down the seat tube.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jancsika 1y ago
> The math doesn't even begin to pass the smell test, with regards to how much energy you'd get out of some tiny battery vs. the amount you'd spend dragging the dead battery around France all day. But there's already evidence that some cyclists were at least dragging around exactly that much extra weight: > In the 2015 Tour de France, bikes in the peloton were weighed before one of the time trial stages. French authorities told us the British Team Sky was the only team with bikes heavier than the rest—each bike weighed about 800 grams more. A spokesman for Team Sky said that during a time trial stage bikes might be heavier to allow for better aerodynamic performance. He said the team has never used mechanical assistance and that the bikes were checked and cleared by the sports governing body.[1] That's 800 extra grams-- the same weight as Varjas' little hidden motor that he sold for $12,000. I'd find it quite strange if you think a hidden battery-powered motor doesn't pass the smell test, but dragging around the same weight for "aerodynamics" does pass the smell test. 1: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-investigates-hidden-motors-and-pro-cycling/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-investigates-hidden-...
- jeffbee 1y ago
  Aero is basically the only thing that matters, second only to recruiting freak-show riders with horse lungs. These guys are averaging 40km/h. Have you seen Vingegaard's ridiculous mushroom helmet that's pushing the boundary between headwear and faring?
  - PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago
    Aero doesn't matter at all on hill climbs, they are going too slow there for that.
    - jeffbee 1y ago
      That wasn't the question. The question would be whether a team would trade mass for drag and the answer is clearly yes. Every elite team has lighter and heavier bikes that are suited to different events.
rtkwe 1y ago
Bikers swap bikes quite freely so that's not really an issue.
IncreasePosts 1y ago
It could be a capacitor charged when going down hill

amelius 1y ago

This is especially a thing in F1 racing. The least they can do is give all contestants the same equipment.