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UPI in India, Pix in Brazil, Interac in Canada, various iBAN schemes in Europe, WeChat and AliPay in China. Everywhere but the US has good options that aren't

UPI in India, Pix in Brazil, Interac in Canada, various iBAN schemes in Europe, WeChat and AliPay in China. Everywhere but the US has good options that aren't the credit card duopoly or the scam / crime filled bitcoin.

tavavex 1y ago
These examples aren't quite apples-to-apples. Yes, I can e-transfer money to other people in Canada I know or even pay small businesses for their services. But that only applies to one country. When I buy something on Steam or Itch, I must send money abroad, and the same is true for countless other things. And what options do you have for that besides the Visa/MC duopoly or crypto? I'm not a crypto user, but I see it as the only realistic future way of moving money to buy anything that the holy payment processors deem icky, barring the near-zero chance of them being regulated in the US or a popular competitor suddenly appearing.
- dartharva 1y ago
  Aren't they already collecting through local entities in the first place and then converting them to dollars? Also, Steam does support local card companies like RuPay in India.
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  Steam collects GST so they've already figured that out. But your basic thesis is correct, it's not apples-to-apples. Debit vs credit is a significant difference. Another major issue is that while the regulations for any one of the alternatives on my list aren't particularly onerous, I imagine the superset of all the regulations/contracts might well be.
  - tavavex 1y ago
    I'm not sure how exactly Steam pays local taxes, be it a Canadian third party that siphons the extra money for them or if they just send each region the tax money, but either way the money is flowing abroad at some point. Then there's individual transactions. If you need to internationally send someone money and the payment processors say no for any reason, you're largely SOL. I guess you can mail cash directly, while that still exists. But my point that you can basically only go either through Visa/MC or through crypto stands, even though I don't particularly love either.
    - bryanlarsen 1y ago
      Or international bank transfer, or postal money order, or Western Union, or several other unlikely mechanisms.
- piperswe 1y ago
  SEPA allows for free, instant international transfers. Why can't we have something like SEPA that encompasses more than just Europe?
reactordev 1y ago
Those aren’t clearing houses, those are fintech services built on top of clearing houses. They still rely on credit card duopoly or ACH reconciliation between banking institutions. Don’t kid yourself.
- dartharva 1y ago
  Not at all, UPI is literally just a platform for direct mobile bank-to-bank payments. No credit cards or duopolies involved, just a public-sector behemoth.
  - reactordev 1y ago
    UPI is just fast ACH. It’s still built on top of IMPS, which is regulated by RBI. India’s version of US Treasury. A more mobile and grass roots version of Plaid. All it takes is for RBI to say “This kind of content isn’t allowed” and you’d have the same effect. Here in the US, we didn’t build an IMPS like system until way too late in the game.
    - imtringued 1y ago
      You wouldn't, because the business model and the incentives are different. If anything, free chargebacks make consumers careless and turn them into freeloaders.

tavavex 1y ago

These examples aren't quite apples-to-apples. Yes, I can e-transfer money to other people in Canada I know or even pay small businesses for their services. But that only applies to one country. When I buy something on Steam or Itch, I must send money abroad, and the same is true for countless other things. And what options do you have for that besides the Visa/MC duopoly or crypto? I'm not a crypto user, but I see it as the only realistic future way of moving money to buy anything that the holy payment processors deem icky, barring the near-zero chance of them being regulated in the US or a popular competitor suddenly appearing.

dartharva 1y ago
Aren't they already collecting through local entities in the first place and then converting them to dollars? Also, Steam does support local card companies like RuPay in India.
bryanlarsen 1y ago
Steam collects GST so they've already figured that out. But your basic thesis is correct, it's not apples-to-apples. Debit vs credit is a significant difference. Another major issue is that while the regulations for any one of the alternatives on my list aren't particularly onerous, I imagine the superset of all the regulations/contracts might well be.
- tavavex 1y ago
  I'm not sure how exactly Steam pays local taxes, be it a Canadian third party that siphons the extra money for them or if they just send each region the tax money, but either way the money is flowing abroad at some point. Then there's individual transactions. If you need to internationally send someone money and the payment processors say no for any reason, you're largely SOL. I guess you can mail cash directly, while that still exists. But my point that you can basically only go either through Visa/MC or through crypto stands, even though I don't particularly love either.
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    Or international bank transfer, or postal money order, or Western Union, or several other unlikely mechanisms.
piperswe 1y ago
SEPA allows for free, instant international transfers. Why can't we have something like SEPA that encompasses more than just Europe?

reactordev 1y ago

Those aren’t clearing houses, those are fintech services built on top of clearing houses. They still rely on credit card duopoly or ACH reconciliation between banking institutions. Don’t kid yourself.

dartharva 1y ago
Not at all, UPI is literally just a platform for direct mobile bank-to-bank payments. No credit cards or duopolies involved, just a public-sector behemoth.
- reactordev 1y ago
  UPI is just fast ACH. It’s still built on top of IMPS, which is regulated by RBI. India’s version of US Treasury. A more mobile and grass roots version of Plaid. All it takes is for RBI to say “This kind of content isn’t allowed” and you’d have the same effect. Here in the US, we didn’t build an IMPS like system until way too late in the game.
  - imtringued 1y ago
    You wouldn't, because the business model and the incentives are different. If anything, free chargebacks make consumers careless and turn them into freeloaders.