6 ms·

This is exactly why I switched to Android a year ago. Smartphones are not trivial consumer electronics devices: they are sophisticated computers, and increasin

by nkoren 14y ago

This is exactly why I switched to Android a year ago. Smartphones are not trivial consumer electronics devices: they are sophisticated computers, and increasingly are our primary portals to the wider world. Any central authority that governs what you are and are not allowed to do with your smartphone is thus an incredibly powerful political actor. It would be scary enough if such an actor were governed by the democratic state, which had at least some theoretical accountability to the general population. Apple, however, does not have even the pretence of that kind of accountability. I'm somebody who has publicly castigated RMS for being an alarmist and a zealot, but here I have to agree with him 100%: this is an issue with profoundly negative implications for the development of a healthy and democratic civil society. If walled gardens like this are going to become increasingly dominant, then I honestly fear for the future.

philwelch 14y ago
> It would be scary enough if such an actor were governed by the democratic state, which had at least some theoretical accountability to the general population. Apple, however, does not have even the pretence of that kind of accountability. Sure they do. You're going off to buy an Android phone, so Apple lost your money and you got the phone you wanted better. That's even better than a democratic state, where you're stuck with the same one until you can get half the population to agree with you.
Steko 14y ago
"which had at least some theoretical accountability to the general population. Apple, however, does not have even the pretence of that kind of accountability." Apple, like any for profit business, is certainly accountable to the market. I'm indifferent [1] to this app but maybe so many people are outraged that Apple reconsiders lest it's brand or market share suffer. Again I doubt that's going to happen. For one, this app works perfectly as a web app. If Apple were to start blocking the web I think I might join you and head for another platform but I don't see them doing that. [1] I have a certain tolerance for crudeness and so I'm fine with this app but let's imagine there's a whole "morbid app tracking" section of the app store. Serial killers trackers, Rapes Near Me, etc. Is that something Apple wants to encourage? Probably not.
- Daishiman 14y ago
  > Apple, like any for profit business, is certainly accountable to the market. I'm indifferent [1] to this app but maybe so many people are outraged that Apple reconsiders lest it's brand or market share suffer. Again I doubt that's going to happen. For one, this app works perfectly as a web app. If Apple were to start blocking the web I think I might join you and head for another platform but I don't see them doing that. This is not a good argument. Public pressure for apps of this kind will always be relatively low, so other interests will almost always take precedence, which means that states can effectively use their leverage to block undesirable content with minimal consequences. It is effectively a form of soft censorship.
  - Steko 14y ago
    "Pressure for apps of this kind" sort of gives away that game that no one really cares about this Drones+ app. Let me tell you if Apple started featuring an App that let you dress up Obama in racist costumes there would be crowds and boycotts and stores would stop carrying their products and their stock would quickly approach the value of their cash on hand and property. Yes Apple is accountable to the public, full stop.
    - Daishiman 14y ago
      As a matter of principle I consider it wrong that a company that has absolute control on a market exerts its influence on political grounds that effectively stifle freedom of the press. Whether it gets one complaint of a million is not relevant to the question. Ask yourself what would happen if this was the case of ISPs blocking access to a website of the same sort.
      - ralfd 14y ago
        I get the argument about the principle. But I guess Steko is nearer on reality that it practically does not matter. Because it really does not "effectively" stifle freedom of press. Especially if the developer himself regards Drone+ as a one trick pony with no downloads. And there are dozens of full featured news apps available who are reporting all kinds of bad news. You can surf the big wide web. An email newsletter would provide the same feature of a notification alert. A few years ago I read a disgruntled guy complaining that he made a very basic clock App, but Apple rejected it with the explanation there are already hundreds basic clock Apps in the clock category. The other commenters were riled up, how dare you Apple! But in the end there are really enough ways to check the date and time. > Whether it gets one complaint or a million is not relevant to the question. I disagree. A million complains have enough weight to lead to a public discussion and the forming of public opinion and pressure. In the hn thread about this drone-topic, which was only 2 days ago, this link was posted: http://mashable.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-gay-cure/ http://mashable.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-gay-cure/ Quote: "After more than 146,000 people signed a petition against a “gay cure” app, Apple has removed it from the App Store." I am glad this junk was removed! But from your viewpoint of principle it should be allowed? ------- That said, I think Apple could some day adopt Mountain Lions new Gatekeeper feature in iOS, if it proofs itself on OSX.
Tycho 14y ago
It would be a lot worse if the actor was governed by the state, because then it could be combined with: policing, ejudication, military, intellogency agency, surveillance...

by nkoren 14y ago

philwelch 14y ago

> It would be scary enough if such an actor were governed by the democratic state, which had at least some theoretical accountability to the general population. Apple, however, does not have even the pretence of that kind of accountability. Sure they do. You're going off to buy an Android phone, so Apple lost your money and you got the phone you wanted better. That's even better than a democratic state, where you're stuck with the same one until you can get half the population to agree with you.

Steko 14y ago

"which had at least some theoretical accountability to the general population. Apple, however, does not have even the pretence of that kind of accountability." Apple, like any for profit business, is certainly accountable to the market. I'm indifferent [1] to this app but maybe so many people are outraged that Apple reconsiders lest it's brand or market share suffer. Again I doubt that's going to happen. For one, this app works perfectly as a web app. If Apple were to start blocking the web I think I might join you and head for another platform but I don't see them doing that. [1] I have a certain tolerance for crudeness and so I'm fine with this app but let's imagine there's a whole "morbid app tracking" section of the app store. Serial killers trackers, Rapes Near Me, etc. Is that something Apple wants to encourage? Probably not.

Daishiman 14y ago
> Apple, like any for profit business, is certainly accountable to the market. I'm indifferent [1] to this app but maybe so many people are outraged that Apple reconsiders lest it's brand or market share suffer. Again I doubt that's going to happen. For one, this app works perfectly as a web app. If Apple were to start blocking the web I think I might join you and head for another platform but I don't see them doing that. This is not a good argument. Public pressure for apps of this kind will always be relatively low, so other interests will almost always take precedence, which means that states can effectively use their leverage to block undesirable content with minimal consequences. It is effectively a form of soft censorship.
- Steko 14y ago
  "Pressure for apps of this kind" sort of gives away that game that no one really cares about this Drones+ app. Let me tell you if Apple started featuring an App that let you dress up Obama in racist costumes there would be crowds and boycotts and stores would stop carrying their products and their stock would quickly approach the value of their cash on hand and property. Yes Apple is accountable to the public, full stop.
  - Daishiman 14y ago
    As a matter of principle I consider it wrong that a company that has absolute control on a market exerts its influence on political grounds that effectively stifle freedom of the press. Whether it gets one complaint of a million is not relevant to the question. Ask yourself what would happen if this was the case of ISPs blocking access to a website of the same sort.
    - ralfd 14y ago
      I get the argument about the principle. But I guess Steko is nearer on reality that it practically does not matter. Because it really does not "effectively" stifle freedom of press. Especially if the developer himself regards Drone+ as a one trick pony with no downloads. And there are dozens of full featured news apps available who are reporting all kinds of bad news. You can surf the big wide web. An email newsletter would provide the same feature of a notification alert. A few years ago I read a disgruntled guy complaining that he made a very basic clock App, but Apple rejected it with the explanation there are already hundreds basic clock Apps in the clock category. The other commenters were riled up, how dare you Apple! But in the end there are really enough ways to check the date and time. > Whether it gets one complaint or a million is not relevant to the question. I disagree. A million complains have enough weight to lead to a public discussion and the forming of public opinion and pressure. In the hn thread about this drone-topic, which was only 2 days ago, this link was posted: http://mashable.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-gay-cure/ http://mashable.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-gay-cure/ Quote: "After more than 146,000 people signed a petition against a “gay cure” app, Apple has removed it from the App Store." I am glad this junk was removed! But from your viewpoint of principle it should be allowed? ------- That said, I think Apple could some day adopt Mountain Lions new Gatekeeper feature in iOS, if it proofs itself on OSX.

Tycho 14y ago

It would be a lot worse if the actor was governed by the state, because then it could be combined with: policing, ejudication, military, intellogency agency, surveillance...