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The US is complicit in the intentional starvation of gaza’s people by israel. At least 15 people have starved to death in the last 24 hours, including an infant
by kennywinker 1y ago
The US is complicit in the intentional starvation of gaza’s people by israel. At least 15 people have starved to death in the last 24 hours, including an infant.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-war-hunger-children-killed-1.7590739 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-war-hunger-childre...
Ragequitting UNESCO over their recognition of palestine is a small part of the project of supporting the ethnic cleansing of gaza and the west bank.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago[flagged]
- skybrian 1y agoA big difference is that in 2022, an estimated five million Ukrainian refugees fled to other parts of Europe - which is more than twice as large as Gaza's entire population. Similarly, many Syrians fled the war there. We could ask why there aren't more Palestinian refugees who fled to other countries? As far as I can tell, leaving Gaza is very difficult, and nobody really talks about making it easier.
- tguvot 1y agoit's not that it's hard to leave gaza. it's just nobody willing to accept gazans. and trumps plan that talks about voluntary migration out of gaza is been described as genocide and ethnic cleansing (btw, 75% of them actually registered as refugees by unrwa for past many decades) i never saw anybody been against migration of population out of war zone to safety. in case of ukrainian refugees it was widely discussed that people need to get to safety and entire europe helped.
- skybrian 1y agoI don't know what's involved, but if no one is willing to accept Gazans then it seems like that might be a practical difficulty?
- tguvot 1y agowith the practical difficulty been that nobody wants them ? egypt btw, build a second wall on it's border with gaza, just in case.
- landl0rd 1y agoHmm why do many countries not want to accept Palestinians? - Supported Saddam in Kuwait - Supported Saddam in Iraq - Massacred Christians in Lebanon - Tried to overthrow Jordan - Caused chaos in Syria - Destabilized Libya - Aligned with iranian axis despite gulf states (eg Saudi) hosting at that time - Complained about Egypt-Israel peace despite the former being the only country to send men to die for them - Sent jihadists into Sinai - Ran military ops out of Tunis after Tunisia agreed to host Arafat causing Tunis to get bombed - Repeatedly militarized "refugee camps" Like whether what israel is doing is wrong (it is) is independent of whether or not the palestinians kinda suck (they do)
- lbrito 1y agoLook at the demographics of Palestine. They are very young. Most of them weren't even born when most of those supposed things supposedly happened. Are you implying that parent's sins transfer to their children?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> Are you implying that parent's sins transfer to their children? OP isn't making a moral argument. They're making a practical one. It's practical for a potential host to be wary about accepting refugees given the positions of their predecessors. Particularly when the current popuations are engaged in decades (centuries?) old disputes based on ancestral rights.
- skybrian 1y agoIt's not that many people if divided up among many countries. These don't seem like reasons not to accept women and children from a war zone as refugees. Perhaps with some limits.
- themgt 1y agoi never saw anybody been against migration of population out of war zone to safety. I can't think of any comparable historical example of declaring a people's entire territory a war zone and migrating a substantial/majority of the entire population out. Can you? The reality is they'd be unlikely to ever be able/allowed to return, and as such the actual purpose of such a project would be ethnically cleansing the territory.
- tguvot 1y agoentire territory is a war zone. there is no need to declare anything and you essentially you prefer population to suffer hardships of war in order to "safekeep" territory and "prevent ethnic cleansing".
- skybrian 1y agoMy guess is that many people wouldn't want to leave, but helping some people to leave also helps those who stay: fewer mouths to feed, less work for very strained medical facilities, and so on.
- tavavex 1y ago> it's not that it's hard to leave gaza. it's just nobody willing to accept gazans. Isn't it both? I'm not an expert on this by any means, but it seems like anyone who's born on that land will find it almost impossible to leave. Both countries that have land borders with Gaza will usually not admit locals, except in very few exceptions. Even someone trying to transit through Israel to other countries would probably not be able to. Their sea and airspace, things that are seen in other countries as open windows to the rest of the world, are controlled by Israel. And their own government sometimes acts to prevent people from leaving. So, even if some countries accepted their refugees, I don't see how an average Gazan would be able to get there. It's not quite North Korea-level of difficulty, but it's up there.
- tguvot 1y agoaround 100k gazans left through egypt in last 2 years. they needed to pay bribes to egyptian officials. when israel after trump announcement said that idf will help people (who want to leave) to leave through israel, everybody screamed that it's literally proof that israel executes genocide and ethnic cleansing typically to be refugee you need to get to country and request this status. you can't get refugee status remotely.
- skybrian 1y agoTrump was talking about forced migration. There's no reason anyone else needs to support that. Legal restrictions could be reduced if there are any counties willing to take refugees.
- tguvot 1y agohe wasn't talking about forced migration. he was talking about giving people housing/etc in other countries while gaza been rebuild, and later if they want they can come back. at no point he was saying that gazans will be rounded up and moved out. the way that conversation is going now is (and i am not trump fan): - everybody: gaza is destroyed and nobody can live there. conditions are inhumane - trump: lets allow to people move out to different countries, provide them with housing/jobs/etc while gaza is rebuild - israel: we will help to people who want to leave - to leave - everybody: this is literal genocide and ethnic cleansing. gazans should stay in gaza
- kennywinker 1y agoDoes UNESCO not recognize ukraine? What action would you like them to have taken to prevent deaths in ukrain? I called the US complicit, not unesco.
- AnimalMuppet 1y agoI know you did. I'm saying that, by your standards, UNESCO is complicit, because they are not doing enough to stop the war in Ukraine. (See other comments about how focused they are on Palestine as opposed to Ukraine.)
- kennywinker 1y agoI don’t see other comments that say that, but it seems incorrect. They have done very little on palestine AND ukraine. They have released statements on both. That’s about all I can see.
- offtotheraces 1y ago…says the Hamas-run health ministry. Nothing to see here, no conflicts of interest. Let’s trust the people who kidnapped babies and raped and pillaged their way across southern israel.
- DSingularity 1y ago[flagged]
- ngruhn 1y agoFor having an opinion you don't like? This attitude is tearing America apart.
- santoshalper 1y agoNo. Awful people are tearing American apart. Not the moral courage to condemn them.
- ActorNightly 1y agoI find reaction of pro Palestine people to the Israeli/Palestine conflict where they make it extremely personal very interesting. Where is the same energy for what is going on in US?
- lbrito 1y agoIs there an ongoing genocide happening in the US?
- ActorNightly 1y agoThere are other genocides happening in Myanmar and Sudan that nobody talks about. And as far as US, you had a distinct movement that was against Kamala specifically because she was pro Israel. I really don't understand the obsession with this particular conflict to the point where you feel like you are in the moral right by essentially punishing US people and making it worse for the people you care about (in terms of Republicans being way more pro Israel), specifically because the democratic party, didn't offer up a candidate that is EXPLICITLY against Israel.
- dijit 1y agoSweden and the US are “kinda cozy” (I would say at least, from an inside perspective on how Sweden seems to lean in to US interests including copyright enforcements and so forth). However Sweden was the first country to recognise Palestine. Is it possible that the pulling out of UNESCO is further in-line with Trumps “we want to focus on America” fluff, similar to the threats of pulling out of NATO and the actual pulling out of the Paris Accords. I’m aware that there has still been some US interference in the middle-east, I’m just not sure I’m drawing the same connections as you. Also, and I mean this in the best way I can: I don’t really trust anything coming out of Gaza’s health ministry. That doesn’t mean I side with Israel as they are also distorting facts very often.
- DSingularity 1y ago[flagged]
- dijit 1y agoIt’s really not my fight, I’m Swedish - not American. You’ll always be disappointed if you continue with this mindset though, the world will not bend to you because of your moral outrage, the best you can hope for is to open peoples eyes with understanding - not by calling everyone inhumane, disgusting or laying expectations at their feet.
- santoshalper 1y agoI think mass murder is one area where we can safely feel moral outrage. It might not work, but it probably has a better chance of influencing the outcome than shrugging and saying "well, that's just how it is".
- dijit 1y agoTo be completely fair with you which mass murder should I be outraged at? I was outraged with Uyghurs, I was outraged with Rwandans, I was outraged about the Tamils, Burma, the ISIL occupation, Boko Haram etc;etc;etc; I’m old now, my outrage did nothing to prevent or assuage these conflicts and this conflict seems too muddy for me to get involved with, I can’t pick a side, both sides are killing each other and one is more successful than the other. I don’t feel like beating people over the head with the conflict will actually stop anyone dying, even if we decided all of us together to bomb Israel off the map: that’s bad too. Nobody is coming to the table with anything even resembling a solution. So, kindly, I will reserve my moral outrage to situations whereby I can make a difference, where I don’t have to watch both sides chanting death threats in schools about each other. I will not morally side with either.
- Workaccount2 1y ago[flagged]
- spacemadness 1y ago[flagged]
- Workaccount2 1y agoIt's what happened to Japan, but at least the emperor had the wherewithal to not kill japans civilian population, which had been trained and armed for a mainland invasion.
- DSingularity 1y agoAside from your despicable lack of humanity you aren’t even making a valid comparison to begin with. You are comparing fighting an armed nation (Japan) to refugees exercising their right to resist a foreign occupation.
- Workaccount2 1y agoLack of humanity? My friend, if Hamas surrendered tomorrow, the death would stop. They have no allies, they have no support, the war is over. It's now just how much of their own people they are willing to grind up. Western liberals on the keyboards are not going to stop Israel. The fractured and shattered Islamic middle east is not going to stop Israel. End the war, give up the land, and take the offer from Israel for first class tickets for every Palestinian to go live in Iran. Get your diplomacy and ideology straight, and maybe in 50 years your will have the economy and military needed to go take it back from Israel, and then they can be the ones to bend over for peace.
- ImPostingOnHN 1y ago> if Hamas surrendered tomorrow, the death would stop Have we seen an end to the violence in the West Bank area of Palestine?
- techright75 1y ago[flagged]
- SadTrombone 1y agoA "mess" of its own creation, considering Netanyahu propped up Hamas to sabotage the Fatah government.
- aleckiefan 1y agoI mean this sincerely and with all due respect: can you please point me to sources where I can learn more about this?
- ribosometronome 1y agohttps://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas
- ribosometronome 1y agohttps://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas These are both rather prominent results when searching just for: netanyahu hamas
- aleckiefan 1y agoBelated thanks for your reply
- hirako2000 1y agoNot the OP but even some newslets made in Israel would corroborate: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...
- eapressoandcats 1y agoThis was less true before Trump’s return. It’s frustrating that people said they wouldn’t support Biden/Harris over this and now instead we get essentially full-throated endorsement of genocide instead. Like there were always practical limits to how much the US could constrain Israel, especially due to its relative popularity until recently. A bunch of activists didn’t recognize that and tacitly endorsed letting Trump win and now here we are.
- spiderice 1y ago[flagged]
- SadTrombone 1y agoCan you share a source that indicates the population of Gaza has increased since October 7th, 2023?
- ImPostingOnHN 1y agoPlease make your comments productive versus snide. Here is a more productive way to phrase your comment: > I personally believe there is not a genocide, and the reason why I believe that is because I heard from ___________ [fill in the blank] that the population has increased over the past 2 years, and I personally believe that makes it not a genocide because ____________ [fill in the blank]
- kindkang2024 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- bigcat12345678 1y ago[flagged]
- kindkang2024 1y ago> To ask Palestine government to do anything meaningful, yes, they have done a lot Yes, but still not enough, or its people's survival will not depend on the kindness of others. In my opinion, it's not a competent government, at least based on its performance so far.
- lawlessone 1y agoWhat are they supposed to do here exactly?
- kindkang2024 1y agoI do not know exactly, since I do not work there. Those in charge and empowered have a duty to find a way out and protect their people (forgiveness and peace). As for me, I’m just an ordinary person, believing that all lives matter worldwide. And if many innocents continue to die meaninglessly, I consider their governments incompetent for the job. Are you suggesting that they (just to clarify, I’m referring to the government leaders, not the maliciously misinterpreted starving innocents) are competent and that all the other governments are to blame?
- lawlessone 1y ago>I do not know exactly, since I do not work there. Ok so how do you know that they are not doing enough? >Are you suggesting that they are competent and that all the other governments are to blame? I'm suggesting it's not productive to blame the people starving in a concentration camp for not doing enough to find food.
- breppp 1y ago[flagged]
- aaronax 1y agoThat (95,000 / 600 = 158 trucks) is actually much less than 500.
- breppp 1y agoyes my bad, i posted the false figure, its actually 70 of food prewar according to the organization that allows the trucks entering in https://x.com/cogatonline/status/1774174849650278480 https://x.com/cogatonline/status/1774174849650278480 500 is the trucks per day including building materials and industrial goods rather than only food
- taylodl 1y agoI understand the frustration with Hamas, but I think it's important to consider the reality on the ground. Most Palestinians in Gaza are unarmed, displaced, and struggling to survive under extreme conditions - with limited food, water, and medical care. Expecting them to rise up against a heavily armed and entrenched group like Hamas, especially while under bombardment, seems unrealistic. It's not that they don't want change - it's that they lack the means and safety to pursue it. I think we should be careful not to blame civilians for the actions of those in power, especially when they’re already suffering so much.
- breppp 1y agoMaybe, but the entire story we are seeing here is supposed to be Palestinian armed "resistance against an occupation", willing to fight against a stronger enemy for almost a century now. Why do you think in the at least six different armed groups in Gaza, there is not one ready to fight against the people who have effectively taken them hostages? Why in the around half of million extended families of the 100,000 people associated with Hamas in Gaza, there is not enough political pressure to stop?
- dismalaf 1y ago[flagged]
- esseph 1y agoIsrael has become what it had done to it. It's very sad.
- dismalaf 1y agoNice way of ignoring my whole comment.
- SiempreViernes 1y agoThey replied at all, which is frankly more than genocide denial merits.
- dismalaf 1y agoWhen someone shows actual evidence, then maybe you can make the claim. Hamas spokespeople aren't credible and aren't evidence.
- tempnew 1y agoThere have been reports from Israeli soldiers about surplus killing of citizens which you can find on YouTube. It’s unlikely these people are lying, but their reports may not be entirely representative of the war effort either. I think we need to avoid turning ethic cleansing into some sort of binary where you have it or don’t. It exists on a continuum and is a side effect of war that we should assume exists in some tacit degree wherever there are wars involving ethnic groups.
- esseph 1y agoLOOK AT THE BODIES OF THE EMACIATED CHILDREN THAT FUCKING STARVED TO DEATH THEY LOOK LIKE THE JEWISH CHILDREN IN WWII WHAT THE F
- regnull 1y agoFrom WSJ article: "KHAN YOUNIS, Gaza Strip—Thousands of hungry Palestinians amassed last Tuesday morning outside a barbed-wire fence surrounding the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation aid center here. The moment the gates cracked open, the crowd surged forward. American security contractors tried to keep control, but scores of men pushed through barricades and snatched boxes of food awaiting distribution. Others sprinted in behind them. Men on speeding motorcycles raced past the pedestrians to grab whatever food they could. Gunshots rang out—it wasn’t clear from where. Within about 15 minutes, all the food was gone." https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/us-israel-gaza-aid-deaths-12d3fb35 https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/us-israel-gaza-aid-dea... I know it's easy to judge being far away, but seriously, men on speeding motorcycles?
- kennywinker 1y agoWhat are you implying? Genuinely I can’t tell who you think these “men on speeding motorcycles” are? I don’t see anything obviously suspicious in that - if your family was starving would you sit back and let them die? Or maybe hop on a motorcycle and cut to the front of the queue?
- seizethecheese 1y agoI don’t think the people who are starving are the ones with motorcycles and gasoline.
- kennywinker 1y agoLast I checked motorcycles aren’t edible and gasoline isn’t drinkable…
- bobnotbob 1y agoIf only there was some way to exchange one type of an asset, such a motorcycle, to another, such as food... Too bad nothing like this was invented yet.
- tguvot 1y ago[flagged]
- kennywinker 1y ago[flagged]
- ASalazarMX 1y agoThat's an amazingly obtuse distinction to make about an area that is being systematically starved. I don't know, maybe you think they're eating too much fast food or sugary drinks? Probably they need to make more exercise, right?
- tguvot 1y ago[flagged]
- kennywinker 1y ago[flagged]
- hn_throwaway_99 1y ago[flagged]
- lbrito 1y agoThis must be the UN headquarters. Flags everywhere.
- ActorNightly 1y agoFor whatever reason, the Palestine/Israel conflict causes people to just stop being rational. Like, the facts are there, both parties attack each other as part of the conflict throughout history, but for whatever reason, people really want to pick sides on this one, and Im not sure why. Its not the genocide aspect - there are other genocides that are happening (Myanmar for example) that don't cause this reaction. Don't think its anti antisemitism either, as you don't see a lot of narratives that come with traditional rhetoric of that type. Whoever is pushing media out on this is must have figured something out in the format to make people this polarized.
- austin-cheney 1y agoNobody has been able to explain to me how the Israel/Palestine issue is fundamentally different from the Serbia/Bosnia/Kosovo issue of the 1990s. Its weird the mental gymnastics people will go through to qualify any position in either of these events.
- aprilthird2021 1y agoThe major difference is Israel is one of the only modern states that cannot and will not extend citizenship and property rights to the majority of people under their control who existed there when the nation was founded because it would upend the ethnic makeup of the country. They will also not allow the creation of a state for those people, forcing them to be stateless. None of that applies in Serbia / Bosnia / Kosovo, as far as I can tell. That is more like a separatist movement situation like what you see in Kurdistan, Kashmir, etc.
- FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago27% of Israeli citizens are not Jews, but Arabs. They have full citizenship, vote, hold office, etc. Gaza is a competely separate country/territory. They have no connection to the modern Israeli state. If anything they should be asking for Egyptian or Jordanian citizenship since the majority have kin relationships and history from there.