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CBA hiring Indian ICT workers after firing Australians
- crinkly 1y agoWe just did that and blamed it on AI. Amazing how you can AI to increase stock price and bury things at the same time! (And yes we are pissed about it)
- nottorp 1y agoYes, the australians seem to be a bit behind the times. Look out for the new round of layoffs that get blamed on "AI" next year?
- globalnode 1y agoits funny but this is true, oh.. we did teach the rest of the west about offshoring refugees, something to be proud of.
- noosphr 1y agoTaking Actually Indians to its natural conclusion by cutting out the middle man API.
- oefrha 1y agoLooks like Artificial Intelligence and Actually Indians are in a race to take jobs. Either way, be prepared.
- CommanderData 1y agoWell there's enough Indians in India alone to replace all non Indian tech workers 3 to 1.
- rgmerk 1y agoThe ACS is about as scary as a limp lettuce leaf, so don't expect the CBA, or any other Australian company that wants to outsource IT operations and retrench existing staff, to be in any way deterred.
- abbm 1y agoWhile that may be true, the ACS here is merely reporting on the story. From the article: > “FSU will take CBA to the Fair Work Commission over the issue” (FSU being the Finance Sector Union, and Fair Work Commission being a governmental body that does have some powers.)
- kypro 1y agoIsn't this good? I thought outsourcing meant we get cheaper goods like iPhones and laptops. Now we can outsource middle-class service jobs for cheaper services?
- mellosouls 1y agoIts not simply outsourcing. Its using offshoring to hypocritically, dishonestly and deliberately trash native jobs and salaries, while (normally) maintaining those of the decision-makers. I'm not against realistic economics and open markets leading to a more balanced world, but this is just shark-toothed capitalism with contempt for individuals and the societies the organisations exist in.
- energy123 1y agoThat is the nativist view, yes. But I am not a nativist. Let every member of our species compete on a fair playing field without government interference, regardless of their birth circumstances.
- newsclues 1y agoSome people "compete" with bombs and guns, when they feel they were screwed over.
- benreesman 1y agoThe point is not that companies hiring workers overseas is inherently bad. The point is that companies rest on the infrastructure of society, they are only possible because of everything from the physical infrastructure of energy to the institutional infrastructure of courts and markets. These things are for the most part provided by the tax base in their home country. There are for the most part rules, laws, and norms about how much and what kind of economic activity must accrue back to the society that incubated and hosts the company. Arbitraging those rules and norms to extract rents is not in general a social good.
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- mellosouls 1y agoIn an ideal world acts like these should see the managers and execs making the decisions fired if they weren't included pro rata in the original offloading.
- vachina 1y ago[flagged]
- tomhow 1y agoYou can't post comments containing racial/cultural stereotypes on HN. Please take a moment to read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future, particularly these ones: Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes. Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- cFyrute 1y ago[dead]
- simeonmiteff 1y agoThis reporting is somewhat dishonest it fails to disclose ACS's vested interests... ACS has a nice government-granted monopoly on assessing the qualifications of work visa applicants (at significant cost) so anyone reducing the demand for IT worker visas (by off-shoring those jobs) is going to hurt ACS directly.
- bananapub 1y agoitym "assessing" that is also approximately all ACS does as far as I remember, they seem to never lobby for anything useful or go against the government for the exact same reason.
- simeonmiteff 1y agoThanks, corrected :-)
- christopher8827 1y agoExactly. ACS had a hand in blowing up Aussie jobs.
- monkeycantype 1y agoI worked for a company that was bought by CBA, and this was happening while I was there. This would be great if: Indian workers were hired on equivalent terms, in Australia, on visas that give them a clear path to citizenship. If they were hired as individuals and not via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian labor law. Immigration has been great for Australia in countless ways. I get really upset about they way large labor firms have co-opted as immigration a lever for corporations to undermine Australian working conditions and exploit Indian workers and I really don't know what to do about.
- f1shy 1y ago>> via contracing companies that force them to sign separate secret contracts that prevent them from pushing for their full legal rights under Australian labor law Where is the line between that and plain slavery?
- DoneWithAllThat 1y agoSlaves are not paid wages. There’s no need to resort to hyperbole here, the practices are abhorrent enough without it.
- zdragnar 1y agoIndentured service is often colloquially conflated with slavery, as the legal protections are removed and so too usually the freedom of association.
- f1shy 1y agoWhere is the hyperbole? Is a question: where is the line to start calling it slavery. Obviously, for you far. Not for me. If we want to go the pedantry way, this is the definition I found: “a condition of having to work very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation.” Emphasis in proper mine.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- RachelF 1y agoSadly Western IT workers are too expensive for the MBAs running modern corporations. Just before their last big US layoffs, Microsoft announced: "Microsoft is expanding our presence in India with a $3 billion investment"
- GianFabien 1y agoIBM has been doing that for decades. They have even been repeatedly sued over unfair dismals, etc. But for them it's only the cost of pursuing their off-shoring goals.
- guiriduro 1y agoMaybe the problem is the MBAs and letting them run your company? Surely AI could do a better job than most MBAs? The knowledge requirement is lower, the reasoning and analytical capability lower, just learn a few frameworks and glib vacuous McKinsey-speak, have an AI produce those meaningless powerpoints instead of expensive suits if the C-suite really needs to see it (also candidates for replacement), then instead invest in your IT staffing with local culture that understands the business and its customers and which has a tangible benefit.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago>Maybe the problem is the MBAs and letting them run your company? The vast majority of companies in the world are run by MBAs. Welcome to the club. SV companies were an exception to this rule for a short time in history since tech moved faster than the dinosaurs in suits could comprehend or regulate, so it made sense to put engineers in charge to innovate quickly. Having zero interest rate money also helped a lot. But now that the tech market has matured and consolidated, it's becoming like all the other "uncool" traditional industries, run by MBAs. Except unlike those old traditional industries, there's no credential barrier to entry or unions to protect them, for better and worse.
- stockresearcher 1y agoHP became the company that everyone admired and played a significant role in shaping SV by hiring fresh engineering grads from around the country and then paying for them to take nights and weekends MBA classes at Stanford while they worked during the day (you can read about it in Dave Packard’s autobiography). It was then torn apart and turned into a joke by a different set of MBAs. So… perhaps it is a little more complicated than just having an MBA
- GianFabien 1y agoIf Australia doesn't have the capabilities then why are the university campuses full of overseas students? So they can learn, return to their homelands and work at some outsourcing org? CBA like all large corporations don't care about their staff nor their customers. Their only priority is to pander to their shareholders and pay their executives ever larger salaries and perks. Government powers don't work. Lobbyists and party donors make sure that they own the decision makers. Politicians, like the corporations are only in it for what they can personally gain.
- olowe 1y ago> If Australia doesn't have the capabilities then why are the university campuses full of overseas students? Because it’s great business: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-27/australias-international-student-industry-in-charts/104244340 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-27/australias-internatio...
- Quarrel 1y ago> If Australia doesn't have the capabilities then why are the university campuses full of overseas students? Because Australian universities are a path to citizenship. Australia is one of the richest per capita nations on the planet and has been for almost 200 years. People seek a better life. My ancestors did too, that's why I'm Australian.
- breitling 1y agoCanadian banks, telecoms, and even retail chains, have been shamelessly replacing Canadian workers with Indians for decades. At this point, a plurality of our new immigrants come from one or two states in India. I would challenge you to go to a coffee shop in any major city and try to find a Canadian worker. Not sure what the future is for a Canadian worker, but it's bleak.
- geraldwhen 1y agoBased on immigration rates and birth rates, Canada will be mostly Indian at some point in the future. The “future Canadian worker” is Indian.
- thoroughburro 1y agoThe future Canadian worker is a Canadian with Indian ancestry, you no doubt mean.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- netbioserror 1y agoYou're assuming perfect assimilation happens. Otherwise you simply have a colony. If the colony outstrips the natives, they change the culture and eventually the governance of a place by right of conquest. Then they can change names and there's no denying it. States encompass territory, but nations are defined by their people and culture.
- christopher8827 1y agoIts not just CBA, but Westpac, Optus and pretty much any large corporate in Australia. ACS is being a hypocrite since: 1) they charge $$$ fees for validating IT experience so they would never advocate lowering the immgiration rate (its also a conflict of interest). So they have a hand in dismantling Australian tech jobs. 2) they inform the government that there's still a "skills shortage" of developer , when in reality, they do it to suppress wages.
- yahoozoo 1y ago[flagged]
- justlikereddit 1y ago[flagged]
- yipbub 1y agoDon't confuse liberal capitalists, libertarians, etcs with leftists. It's free market liberals and right wing libertarians that espouse this kind of free market stuff. The people most commonly calling nazis nazis(with some rare hyperbole) are leftists and they definitely didn't vote for this. They want market regulation. Also, if you were complaining about immigrants when you got called a nazi, please consider that the skilled immigrants taking tech jobs would be buying at your local businesses and paying taxes in Australia if you let them in. Now your corporate overlords will pay them to spend in India.
- hunglee2 1y agoRevenue maximisation is an 'embedded imperative' of companies a capitalist system, so of course these jobs will be migrated to where they can be done most productively; they will then be automated as soon as the roles become simplified and the AI becomes more advanced. This is neither 'right', not 'wrong' much less shameful; it is simply the logical extension of the socio-economic system we all willingly subscribe to. The only alternative, would be to establish different forms of community owned organisations (should all businesses be owned by employees?) allied with protectionism to prevent leaner, more efficient capitalist firms from outcompeting the co-ops.
- komali2 1y agoYup. The only alternative is what countries are trying right now, protectionist controls on immigration and tariffs to prevent companies from manufacturing elsewhere, or laws that require attempting to locally hire before hiring on visa (hilariously easy to circumvent). But that's in opposition to capitalism, which many big fans of that mode of production will quickly remind us. No regulation! Pure capitalism! Can't have your cake and also eat it. This trend is one excellent example of the inherent, unsolvable issues with capitalism.
- modo_mario 1y ago>the socio-economic system we all willingly subscribe to Do we subscribe to it willingly? I dare say there's been plenty of scenarios and places where the population would favour protectionism of some form but find their desire subverted by capital.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago>the socio-economic system we all willingly subscribe to Willingly? I don't remember being asked if I want to be replaced by an imported offshore worker. Most workers don't want this version of capitalism, people want their politicians and businesses to prioritize the interests of local workers first. Hence why you see them voting for the most extreme and radical political candidates since the status quo have made it clear they see the locals as interchangeable cogs in the economic meat grinder.
- marcusverus 1y ago
- lupusreal 1y agoShameful? Shameless more like.
- adityaathalye 1y agoIsn't this just another symptom of the disease that is Jack Welch-ian financialisation of the enterprise [1]? While it was paying off handsomely, in the short term, the grumblings were muted. Now that the invisible hand of the invisible debt collector has come a-calling, it is unsurprising that the WITCH-hunt (hehe) is gathering momentum. Given that these are generational phenomena, is it surprising that one generation torpedos local labour laws and labour protections, and their children and grandchildren wake up one day faced with the prospect of having to pay the price? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44442022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44442022