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What can be done to loosen card companies' grip on this? It has been a constant problem now for decades.
by ranger_danger 1y ago
What can be done to loosen card companies' grip on this? It has been a constant problem now for decades.
- bobsmooth 1y agoBitcoin was supposed to solve this.
- gloryjulio 1y agoExactly. It's really a tragedy that crypto becomes a speculator's tool, and the real problem didn't even get solved.
- lawn 1y agoAnd you could indeed use Bitcoin on Steam for a while! But then the blocks got full, fees and wait times skyrocketed, and in response to the customer backlash Steam removed Bitcoin. Meanwhile Bitcoiners were (and still are) only focused on number go up instead of other, more productive, use cases. Such a waste.
- kingo55 1y agoThere's now Ethereum, Base and Solana featuring US dollar stablecoins and significantly cheaper fees. If you want to go a step further and eliminate the stablecoin issuer's counterparty risk you could even pay in the base asset of ETH. Shopify allows payments from crypto now, so Steam should try it again. Good luck censoring purchases on ETH.
- paulryanrogers 1y agoEven stablecoins aren't so great for the environment. Proof of stake isn't as bad, but also doesn't offer much beyond traditional systems once KYC is needed. Am I missing something?
- ETH_start 1y agoStablecoins are great. The only way to be debanked is if the stablecoin issuer explicitly blacklists your address, which is a public act which they will be forced to justify. And Ethereum's Proof of Stake algorithm is highly censorship resistant. That's why it took seven years to design.
- lawn 1y agoThere are plenty of alternatives to Bitcoin payments in the crypto space. The problem isn't technical, the problem is getting people to care.
- swinglock 1y agoThey built the lightning network, it's meant for this use case.
- lawn 1y agoUnfortunately it's shit at it. The user experience of using another currency or hell even just Bitcoin is far superior.
- miohtama 1y agoYou can get Pornhub subscription with Bitcoin, but not credit card.
- GuinansEyebrows 1y agoin a word, regulation.
- Sohcahtoa82 1y agoLikely nothing. The simple fact is, Visa/MC don't want to deal with porn because the number of chargebacks and fraud from porn purchases is significant and a huge outlier compared to most other charges. Their crusade against processing charges for adult material isn't about purity, it's simply business.
- blibble 1y agoI can't imagine people are risking their steam accounts to ripoff a $5 adult game
- mnmalst 1y agoCan you link a reliable source for this claim? I personally couldn't find anything with substance.
- mitthrowaway2 1y agoI doubt it. If that were the case, I think they would only be complaining to Valve about the number of chargebacks issued from the Steam store. Not about genres-that-are-correlated-with-chargebacks-in-other-contexts. Given Valve's generous refund policies, and the fact that a steam store purchase on your credit card statement looks quite innocent, and that the credit card companies didn't complain to Valve about chargebacks but about content, my guess is there are hardly any chargebacks, and this is just about moral purity.
- gs17 1y ago> Given Valve's generous refund policies, Their generous refund policy, and more importantly their very-non-generous chargeback policy. If you chargeback a Steam purchase, your account is locked.
- gs17 1y agoI'm not sure I buy the chargeback angle. It's commonly trotted out as a reason card companies would enforce censorship, but it doesn't make sense with the actions they take. Chargeback fees are paid by the merchant regardless of the chargeback's success, and are supposed to cover the costs of administering it (and then some). The very selective rules applied here are pretty odd from that angle too, if adult content chargebacks/fraud is the issue, then all of it should be the issue, not small niches. Fraud is likely more realistic of an issue, but that's probably an issue with games in general, not just adult titles. There are already high-risk merchant accounts with higher fees and cash reserve requirements, but AFAIK companies like Valve aren't being given any options other than comply or be destroyed.
- niemandhier 1y agoRegulation and anti cartel laws. Adult business is legitimate business in many parts of the world and companies using their monopoly to suppress it should be a case for an Investigation.
- bobro 1y ago[flagged]
- ranger_danger 1y agoWhy do you think it's fair/acceptable to strongarm niche sectors that want to process credit cards just like everyone else?
- bobro 1y agoBecause those sectors are particularly difficult for processors in terms of fraud and abuse. If your niche is so disproportionately problematic that cc companies don’t think it’s worth it to try to make money off you, then you should find a different solution.
- majorchord 1y ago"It doesn't personally affect me so I don't care."
- bobro 1y agoIt absolutely does affect me for disproportionately fraudulent activity to exist on the same system I use for routine payments. I don’t want to subsidize cc abusers with the cc processing fees I implicitly pay.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoUse ACH/Zelle/Paypal/etc. The permanent solution is a federal government operated electronic money system operated as a utility with constitutionally protected rights.
- majorchord 1y agoThose solutions might work for some people in some countries, but I would argue that it's not acceptable for the vast majority of customers, and they would lose a very significant portion of revenue.
- gs17 1y agoPayPal has also been involved in this.
- jowea 1y agoInstant payment systems that go direct from bank to bank, assuming the banks, the government or any other intermediaries don't also decide to not allow it. Or cryptocurrency, I guess.
- Symbiote 1y agoDenmark has seen a trend where their national card network (Dankort, operating at the equivalent level to Visa and Mastercard) is seeing reduced usage. They're aiming to reverse that trend. https://cphpost.dk/2025-06-28/general/new-political-agreement-to-revive-the-dankort-passed-by-parliament-tv2-reports/ https://cphpost.dk/2025-06-28/general/new-political-agreemen... Not all European countries still have these independent networks.
- herbstein 1y agoSeeing reduced use partially because only a few banks support using it in Apple Pay. And Google Pay can't support it at all currently
- encom 1y agoDane here, and I just don't see the point of using Apple or Google pay. Aside from not wanting American tech interfering in, or data harvesting, my finances, it's not any easier to use. I just touch my card to the terminal and payment happens. Some times, or if the amount is over some limit, I have to enter a pin. I cringe every time I see someone contorting their arm to pay with their watch. It's tech for the sake of tech. Sincerely, Ted K.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- amelius 1y agoChoose a payment system by a company that is not as opinionated. Apple pay, for example.
- zanfr 1y agoAHA AHAHAAH AAHAHAAHA nice one
- Integer 1y agoIn Europe, Wero[1] has a chance to become the de-facto payment system, once it's supported by more banks in more countries and adds online payments functionality. [1]https://wero-wallet.eu/ https://wero-wallet.eu/
- phendrenad2 1y agoUnironically, crypto? It might seem like an annoying hurdle now, but as more and more things are banned by puritans, the crypto experience will surely rise to meet the need.