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Considering their volume, I find it hard to believe that Valve couldn't find another, more lenient payment processor with similar fees.
by timpera 1y ago
Considering their volume, I find it hard to believe that Valve couldn't find another, more lenient payment processor with similar fees.
- ranger_danger 1y agoMy understanding is that it's not just the processor, but Visa/Mastercard themselves have rules against certain types of merchants/products... they really have a monopoly on credit cards in general so you have to play by their rules.
- jajuuka 1y agoYep, they are a just a modern day mafia. "Would be a real shame if you didn't take down these games. Then we couldn't do business with you anymore."
- Ancapistani 1y agoYou're right, but it's slightly more complicated than that. My understanding is that payment processors are obligated to follow the policies of Visa/MasterCard, AmEx, and Discover, but that those parties' policies don't explicitly ban these specific things for sale. Instead, they "strongly encourage" processors to ban them in their user agreements under the implicit threat of their risk level being increased, which in turn impacts the fees they pay to the credit card companies. I've not been deep in this world since ~2014, but at that time the only processor I could find that wasn't specific to the porn industry, offered physical terminals, had reasonable (if high) fees, and didn't ban legal transactions in their user agreement was PAI ("Payment Alliance International"). A quick look at their site today shows that they seem to have been acquired by Brinks, so that may no longer be the case.
- Mindwipe 1y agoMasterCard have a specific restricted list that bans an awful lot of things in any adult context. Some of how to interpret that is left up to the processor, but it is broadly under MCs and to a lesser extent Visa's control.
- bobsmooth 1y agoThere are no other payment processors.
- slaw 1y agoThere are national issuers like JCB or UnionPay.
- latentsea 1y agoI'm getting a JCB card. Screw Visa.
- vouaobrasil 1y agoIn some countries there are other systems. It's high time the modern world adopted something similar like Pix in Brazil.
- raincole 1y agoThere are no other payment processors that can replace Visa/Mastercard*. There are other payment processors in India/Japan/China/Brazil/etc. But none of them is internationally adopted like Visa/Mastercard.
- jandrese 1y agoIs it the case the Mastercard/Visa will reject a site that has such content even if you can only purchase it using ValveBucks or PayPal or something? That seems plausible.
- astura 1y agoAdult content has a high chargeback rate and high fraud rates so payment processing for adult content has higher fees.
- giancarlostoro 1y agoWhich makes less sense when you consider Steam will refund you game if you dont want it.
- david38 1y agoI don’t think you understand what’s being said. He’s not talking about the ability to refund
- jowea 1y agoBut is there a good reason to do a chargeback if you can easily refund it? Yes if someone stole the CC and used it buy something on Steam, but is that the concern or that someone buys something with a CC on their own account, and then chargebacks instead of refunding?
- Dylan16807 1y agoPeople say that a lot but I haven't seen actual statistics, and sites that have established low chargeback rates face the same issues. Also that's not a reason to ban certain genres/kinks, which is what's happening here.
- AIPedant 1y agoThe fact that these were specifically incest games makes me think a title was somehow involved in distributing CSAM, which is often why Visa/MC crack down on porn websites. But it is possible that Visa sensibly and correctly said "anyone who makes or purchases such a game is a despicable scumbag, and we shouldn't assume the financial risk of dealing with them."
- Dylan16807 1y ago
- gorwell 1y agoThey could support a stablecoin like USDC and start pushing people to that. No censorship and lower fees. Valve broke ground with Steam, they could do it again.
- edm0nd 1y agonah. USDC funds can be frozen by Circle on demand/request.
- drexlspivey 1y agoYou wouldn’t be buying or holding any USDC in your account. It would be invisible to you
- gs17 1y agoWould you care to explain the process more? I'd be glad to see a useful application of crypto.
- wmf 1y agoThe problem with that is that you usually end up using traditional payment rails (e.g. a Visa debit card) to "invisibly" buy the stablecoin and then you're subject to their rules and fees again.
- mvdtnz 1y ago[flagged]
- gorwell 1y agoThey also use dollars and credit cards and gift cards.
- Ancapistani 1y agoEarly crypto believer here. My first purchase of Bitcoin was at $0.23. I've been through the ups and downs, used the proceeds to buy physical assets over the years (land, and one vehicle), and lost interest in the "community" shortly after Ethereum gained initial popularity. I still hold some crypto, mostly Bitcoin but also Ethereum, Monero, and a handful of altcoins that don't amount to enough to bother withdrawing. My hot take take: Crypto still fills a valuable role, and will still "take over" the global financial system both at the individual and institutional level. Whether that's Bitcoin, another coin, or something new created by the institutions themselves is yet to be seen. You're right that it's "tainted", of course. That's why I think we're in a (hopefully) long slump in adoption. I think that will rapidly change if and when the US Dollar loses its place as the world's reserve currency. At some point there will be a war or significant political disruption. A large part of the world will want to divest itself of dollars, and none of the state-backed alternatives will be stable enough for their needs. That's when we'll see a shift to crypto - first some international institutions that do business across ideological borders, then the rest of the internationals, then individuals. Unless and until that happens, things will continue to slowly grow. The boom/bust cycle will keep going, getting longer and lower magnitude over time. There's still money to be made in speculation, but that's not what interests me :)
- wmf 1y agoIt complicates things to have some games that can be purchased with credit cards and some games that can only be purchased with crypto.
- Hemospectrum 1y agoIf they continued to carry any of the games that were singled out for removal by Visa and Mastercard, they would not be able to accept credit card payments for anything else in their store. This same drama has played out the same way with countless other online services.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- tencentshill 1y agoControversial games being restricted to purchase only with Steam Points. The credit card is only ever charged to buy points, which can then be used to purchase items on the store. Similar to fortnite.
- devnullbrain 1y agoOr similar to DLSite and Fantia, where it didn't work.