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It will only get worse with LLMs being at the core of ever more activity. I'm not sure why only the USA is capable of creating state-of-the-art LLMs. As for Eu
by ArtTimeInvestor 1y ago
It will only get worse with LLMs being at the core of ever more activity.
I'm not sure why only the USA is capable of creating state-of-the-art LLMs. As for Europe, I can say that it has a simple but effective strategy to keep falling behind:
1: Prevent innovation via regulation
2: Problem: Being dependent on foreign technology
3: Fight the problem with more regulation
4: Goto 1
Maybe people from China, Japan, India, or the UK can shed some light on why no state-of-the-art LLMs come out of these countries?
- alecsm 1y ago5: Tax companies and individuals until doing business is no longer viable.
- pembrook 1y ago6: Make employees much harder to fire, make companies much less likely to hire 7: Continue speaking 48 different languages and teach english too late so you have fragmented markets that on average can barely talk with each other at a 1st grade level 8: Have wildly different regulatory, legal and tax schemes within each fragmented mini-market such that EU-wide expansion is difficult 9: Cement social welfare expectations based on economic and population-driven realities that no longer exist, making competitive taxation regimes impossible 10: Force almost all private capital into centralized government run pension systems that are massively underinvested in risk assets, starving the business/venture ecosystem of capital while not meeting the social welfare expectations.
- akazantsev 1y ago> 8: Have wildly different regulatory, legal and tax schemes within each fragmented mini-market such that EU-wide expansion is difficult Is it worse than in the United States? Each state has those, too.
- pembrook 1y agoI could list a million examples. But here's one, imagine if selling a physical product in Illinois vs. Ohio required: - hiring a human representative in each state and paper-based filings and correspondance in different languages for the VAT register - Joining a dual-state system for financing the recycling of the packaging - Registering with a package register who has the right to refuse your product over marginal differences - Changing the packaging language for each state - Having your supply chain examined by officials of each state, in different language (better hire someone), for things they don't like - Hiring a local representative in each state to manage interactions with regulatory bodies related to EPR (Extended Producer Responsibility) - Treating your IT systems in each state differently based on nuanced data rules and compliance Yes, it's worse than the US. California is the most regulation-happy US state and they're a cake-walk compared to interfacing with EU beaurocratic idiocy (in many different languages!).
- matthewtse 1y ago100% agree I spend 90% of my tax/regulation effort on handling EU VAT, which is <10% of my revenue. It really makes the IRS seem like Google in comparison to EU revenue services.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago>Is it worse than in the United States? Each state has those, too. 1) How many official languages are you mandated to speak and write in order to be allowed to legally do business in each US state? 2) How much difference is there in the regulation between US states versus between EU countries? Spoiler: There can be a bigger difference between doing business between neighboring EU countries than between California and New York.
- IAmBroom 1y agoThe Commerce Clause of the US Constitution answers your question: Yes, it's worse. Federal law and regulations ALWAYS supercede state laws. If the federal rule says "X must be allowed", states can't make X illegal.
- lazystar 1y agocounterpoint: is a "SOTA LLM" a net benefit to society as a whole?
- kevingadd 1y agoOn this note, even if LLMs or "AGI" make businesses more profitable by improving margins and allowing them to cut labor costs, you eventually have to balance it out somehow - all those people who've lost jobs are competing for a smaller number of available jobs, and the people who can't find jobs will either need to be supported by taxpayer dollars or die in poverty. People talk about UBI as a solution for this but the money for UBI has to come from somewhere. Are corporations going to voluntarily pay a new tax to support UBI?
- nradov 1y agoIt's not a zero sum labor market. Some jobs are being destroyed but others are being created. The new AI data centers will require a huge amount of electrical power and someone needs to build that infrastructure.
- willy_k 1y agoThat doesn’t really matter for the point at hand, which is that Europe’s overregulation stifles innovation and international competition. Unless you’re arguing that the reason Europe hasn’t produced a SOTA LLM is because it’s not a net benefit, in which case that’s ignoring that it’s going to happen regardless and if Europe supposedly has its head on straighter than others, it would be most beneficial for the leading LLM to be European.
- edelbitter 1y agoReplace "leading LLM" with progressively more evil things and see at what point the "if they exist, they better be European" logic stops seeming logical to you.
- IAmBroom 1y ago
- sschueller 1y agoThen explain this: https://ethz.ch/en/news-and-events/eth-news/news/2025/07/a-language-model-built-for-the-public-good.html https://ethz.ch/en/news-and-events/eth-news/news/2025/07/a-l...
- pembrook 1y agoOP said "state-of-the-art" specifically
- barbazoo 1y agoWhat kind of regulation do you think prevents the development of LLM in the EU?
- randomNumber7 1y agoChina is pretty close to state of the art. The rest I would agree.
- ArtTimeInvestor 1y agoChina is pretty close to state of the art. With DeepSeek-R1-0528?
- klooney 1y agoIsn't Mistral pretty good?
- ArtTimeInvestor 1y agoNot sure. Looks like they are behind even DeepSeek-R1 on the LMArena leaderboard: https://lmarena.ai/leaderboard/text https://lmarena.ai/leaderboard/text I wish I could try myself. I wanted to test via their website: https://chat.mistral.ai https://chat.mistral.ai But the website drives me crazy. It makes the fans of my laptop spin at full throttle. And you don't get the plain text reply from their LLM. You get a mingled html-rendered version that chops up code left and right, so I can't test it.
- storus 1y agoIsn't Mistral based on LLaMA, a US model?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]