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> foreign intelligence services gave them a button push so it's not a direct cyber war on Russia meanwhile, russian intelligence services have already directly

by chii 1y ago

> foreign intelligence services gave them a button push so it's not a direct cyber war on Russia meanwhile, russian intelligence services have already directly attacked nato countries, with barely any real deniability.

jajko 1y ago
They have been, in various ways, been attacking NATO countries for past 2 decades. Its simply puttin's modus operandi. Physical attacks on civilian and military infrastructure, murders, meddling with elections, cyber attacks, you name it.
- holoduke 1y ago
  All countries do this. Only propoganda makes you believe its only the enemy doing it. The UK alone had a history of 300 years of enslaving, meddling and brutalizing other countries. I can name at least 50 events from western countries last 2 decades.
  - jajko 1y ago
    Whataboutism at its finest. I think we all forget how we should feel fiery hate towards all citizens of Mongolia, those conquests were beyond brutal. Or lets start talk like adults and talk about current situation and how nations behave now. russia is the definition of evil of these days. I know US government focuses heavily on china for whatever reasons (I guess because its obvious they are #2 and moving up, russia is barely in top 10 in actual capabilities if we ignore nukes and and since they threatened to use them at least 100x in past few years we can safely ignore them for usual conflicts). Don't hate the messenger, this is how they behave and have painted themselves consistently, heck they are even proud of it in typical russian redneck style if you follow their media a bit.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
paganel 1y ago
Which NATO countries would those be?
- refset 1y ago
  The UK at least https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yuli...
- Squarex 1y ago
  Or Czechia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_... https://praguemorning.cz/russian-terrorist-plot-czech-republic/ https://praguemorning.cz/russian-terrorist-plot-czech-republ...
- sofixa 1y ago
  Czechia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_... Bulgaria: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/01/arms-dealer-100-sure-russian-agents-blast-bulgarian-depot https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/01/arms-dealer-10... Poland: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/12/poland-to-close-russian-consulate-krakow-warsaw-shopping-centre-fire https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/12/poland-to-clos... And UK. Plus a million cyberattacks against all sorts of infrastructure.
  - paganel 1y ago
    So then how come hasn't Article 5 been activated yet? Does that mean that said Article 5 is not even worth the piece of paper it has been written on?
    - wiseowise 1y ago
      Article 5 over a couple of munitions depots?
    - graeme 1y ago
amelius 1y ago
I mean Putin will spin everything as "the West did it" anyway, so it really does not matter who pushes that button. I also seriously wonder why we don't have US/NATO air forces over Ukraine for this reason.
- ajross 1y ago
  Because footage of a downed F-22 and it's captive pilot would be an unspeakable PR disaster relative to the comparatively mild military benefit. Wars aren't, and really never have been, won by blowing stuff up.
  - amelius 1y ago
    USAF has unmanned fighter jets, if that's what you are worried about. > Wars aren't, and really never have been, won by blowing stuff up. That's a huge simplification. Blowing stuff up in a strategic way can certainly help win a war.
    - ajross 1y ago
      > That's a huge simplification. Blowing stuff up in a strategic way can certainly help win a war. And losing public support for an effort via an embarassing disaster can just as certainly lose it, which was my point. Yes yes yes, blow stuff up. Take territory, shoot people, yada yada. At some point that has to happen for a "war" to be a "war". But at the end of the day the winner is essentially always predetermined by economics and politics. Making deployment decisions in the absence of those considerations is generally how one loses wars.
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    I don't know that the electorate that twice elected the man that said "He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured, okay?" would actually be all that bothered.
mycall 1y ago
The Shadow Brokers are a great example, very likely Russians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxqcwK5OMag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxqcwK5OMag

by chii 1y ago

jajko 1y ago

They have been, in various ways, been attacking NATO countries for past 2 decades. Its simply puttin's modus operandi. Physical attacks on civilian and military infrastructure, murders, meddling with elections, cyber attacks, you name it.

holoduke 1y ago
All countries do this. Only propoganda makes you believe its only the enemy doing it. The UK alone had a history of 300 years of enslaving, meddling and brutalizing other countries. I can name at least 50 events from western countries last 2 decades.
- jajko 1y ago
  Whataboutism at its finest. I think we all forget how we should feel fiery hate towards all citizens of Mongolia, those conquests were beyond brutal. Or lets start talk like adults and talk about current situation and how nations behave now. russia is the definition of evil of these days. I know US government focuses heavily on china for whatever reasons (I guess because its obvious they are #2 and moving up, russia is barely in top 10 in actual capabilities if we ignore nukes and and since they threatened to use them at least 100x in past few years we can safely ignore them for usual conflicts). Don't hate the messenger, this is how they behave and have painted themselves consistently, heck they are even proud of it in typical russian redneck style if you follow their media a bit.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

paganel 1y ago

Which NATO countries would those be?

refset 1y ago
The UK at least https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yuli...
Squarex 1y ago
Or Czechia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_... https://praguemorning.cz/russian-terrorist-plot-czech-republic/ https://praguemorning.cz/russian-terrorist-plot-czech-republ...
sofixa 1y ago
Czechia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_... Bulgaria: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/01/arms-dealer-100-sure-russian-agents-blast-bulgarian-depot https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/01/arms-dealer-10... Poland: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/12/poland-to-close-russian-consulate-krakow-warsaw-shopping-centre-fire https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/12/poland-to-clos... And UK. Plus a million cyberattacks against all sorts of infrastructure.
- paganel 1y ago
  So then how come hasn't Article 5 been activated yet? Does that mean that said Article 5 is not even worth the piece of paper it has been written on?
  - wiseowise 1y ago
    Article 5 over a couple of munitions depots?
  - graeme 1y ago

amelius 1y ago

I mean Putin will spin everything as "the West did it" anyway, so it really does not matter who pushes that button. I also seriously wonder why we don't have US/NATO air forces over Ukraine for this reason.

ajross 1y ago
Because footage of a downed F-22 and it's captive pilot would be an unspeakable PR disaster relative to the comparatively mild military benefit. Wars aren't, and really never have been, won by blowing stuff up.
- amelius 1y ago
  USAF has unmanned fighter jets, if that's what you are worried about. > Wars aren't, and really never have been, won by blowing stuff up. That's a huge simplification. Blowing stuff up in a strategic way can certainly help win a war.
  - ajross 1y ago
    > That's a huge simplification. Blowing stuff up in a strategic way can certainly help win a war. And losing public support for an effort via an embarassing disaster can just as certainly lose it, which was my point. Yes yes yes, blow stuff up. Take territory, shoot people, yada yada. At some point that has to happen for a "war" to be a "war". But at the end of the day the winner is essentially always predetermined by economics and politics. Making deployment decisions in the absence of those considerations is generally how one loses wars.
- BobaFloutist 1y ago
  I don't know that the electorate that twice elected the man that said "He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured, okay?" would actually be all that bothered.

mycall 1y ago

The Shadow Brokers are a great example, very likely Russians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxqcwK5OMag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxqcwK5OMag