6 ms·

Which plague?

by Waterluvian 1y ago

Which plague?

carterschonwald 1y ago
Bubonic
- mcv 1y ago
  According to the article, they're all the same plague, but it manifests differently based on which organs it hits. Apparently there's a couple of cases every year, but I've got to say that amidst the return of measles and various other diseases, the cuts in healthcare, this is not a great look.
  - Waterluvian 1y ago
    Apparently it’s very easy to treat, if you can and do seek treatment. Which is why the annual deaths are usually rural regions.
    - toomuchtodo 1y ago
      https://ruralhospitals.chqpr.org/Map.html https://ruralhospitals.chqpr.org/Map.html
    - ginko 1y ago
      From the article: >Symptoms often begin within a week of infection and may include fever, chills, swollen lymph nodes, nausea and weakness. If I had symptoms like that I think I'd just stay at home and not visit a doctor yet. Certainly not within 24 hours of them showing up.
      - jll29 1y ago
        Mumps, a common kid's viral disease, has overlapping symptoms, so many people might follow a "let's wait and see" approach. Also, medical practitioners may not immediately put on their bioharzard protection suite when someone walks in with swollen lymph nodes and nausea. That's why it is important to take news of incidents and location of the occurrence into consideration, both as a patient and as medical staff.
        SoftTalker 1y ago
        Mumps is commonly vaccinated against when children are very young. It’s one of the Ms in the MMR vaccine.
        asyx 1y ago
        It’s 2025 my guy. Can’t count on kids getting vaccinated anymore.
        Waterluvian 1y ago
        Depends where you are. I guess the U.S. has an outsized representation online but it’s less than 5% of the world. Up here kids are not permitted to go to school without it. There’s some exceptions but they’re, in practice, very difficult to secure.
        SoftTalker 1y ago
        The vast majority are. Most parents are not idiots.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        0xbadcafebee 1y ago
        That may not be true. Most people are idiots, and most parents are people.
        eldaisfish 1y ago
        why, then, are measles cases on the rise in north america?
        SoftTalker 1y ago
        Its true that they are but the number of cases is still just around 1,000 which is not many in the context of the overall population, and only about 1/10 of the numbers we saw in the late 1980/early 1990s. Most parents still get their kids vaccinated. You hear about the few oddballs that don't when their kids get sick and it's trumpted all over the news as if it's a new pandemic.
  - rayiner 1y ago
    As of July 2025, the U.S. had about 1,300 measles cases compared to over 2,700 in Canada as of May 2025: https://vaxopedia.org/2025/06/02/the-north-american-measles-outbreak-of-2025 https://vaxopedia.org/2025/06/02/the-north-american-measles-.... See also: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/us-measles-cases-hit-highest-number-33-years/story?id=123564379 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/us-measles-cases-hit-highest-n... Canada obviously had only 1/10th the population. Your attempted connection to domestic policies is spurious.
    - Waterluvian 1y ago
      I think the statistical anomaly you point out is an incredibly worthwhile thing to explore. There’s something to understand there. But I’m not sure it directly supports or refutes any arguments about domestic policies, other than perhaps saying that domestic policy making does not have a 100% guaranteed desired effect. There’s likely numerous other variables to explore.
      - rayiner 1y ago
        No, I’m agreeing that it’s not about domestic policies. That’s my point. OP tried to bring domestic cuts to Medicaid into the issue to make it sound like the measles cases in the U.S. have something to do with that domestic policy.
        mcv 1y ago
        That's a misrepresentation. I did not claim that the cuts to medicaid caused the rise in measles; that would have been a silly claim, considering those cuts are being made right now, whereas the rise in measles is already ongoing. I'm saying it's part of a pattern. The rise in measles, after it was practically eliminated, is obviously caused by the rise in anti-vax beliefs. And that plus the other factors I mentioned are part of a pattern of carelessness and misinformation around public health. All of it put together, these are extremely worrisome developments.
        rayiner 1y ago
throw310822 1y ago
Yersinia pestis, the bubonic plague.
- mplewis9z 1y ago
  You do know that both pneumonic and bubonic are caused by the same bacterium, right? They’re just different transmission methods.
  - throw310822 1y ago
    Indeed. I wrongly assumed it would be bubonic as it seems to be the most common form (and because it qualifies a bit the term "plague" which can be perceived as generic, I think).
    - lazide 1y ago
      Yes, many types of bacteria can cause ‘a plague’, but at least in the western world, only one was ‘The Plague’. Probably anyway, there is some debate on that. But it’s pretty likely.
  - readthenotes1 1y ago
    You left one variant off, apparently: "Plague occurs in three forms, bubonic, septicemic and pneumonic, depending on whether the infection hits the lymph nodes, bloodstream or lungs. Most US cases are bubonic, typically spread via flea bites from infected rodents. " Given the discussion of the prairie dog die off, it's more interesting than it was mnemonic and not move on it for me fleas
    - Waterluvian 1y ago
      Mnemonic Plague People Learn About Germs Using Epidemiology
    - marssaxman 1y ago
      Many years ago, I knew a family who named the three squirrels who regularly visited their back yard "Bubonic", "Pneumonic", and "Septicemic". The squirrels did not respond to these names, but the family sure did find it amusing to use them.
lynndotpy 1y ago
Not stated in the article, but it's pneumonic plague, according to this story from azcentral and this story from CNN: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/2025/07/11/plague-death-arizona/84604256007/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/20... https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/12/health/plague-death-arizona https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/12/health/plague-death-arizona
- Gys 1y ago
  > Plague is a bacterial infection known for killing tens of millions in 14th century Europe. Today, it’s easily treated with antibiotics. > The bubonic plague is the most common form of the bacterial infection, which spreads naturally among rodents like prairie dogs and rats.
- southernplaces7 1y ago
  Nasty thing that. Bubonic plague became famous for killing nearly half the western world in the 14th century in just a few years, but for all its voracious destructiveness, the pneumonic variant left it in the dust in specific situations. I've read that in cities and towns where plague took on its pneumonic form instead of its bubonic variant, 80%+ of the local population would die in just days. In some cities struck by this, populations didn't recover until the 18th century.
  - southernplaces7 1y ago
    I think it's innately impossible for us now in the comparatively near-sterile, social safety-laden developed world of today to imagine such grotesque death happening so suddenly on such a vast scale. The COVID pandemic, for all the fear and emergency measures it sparked mostly killed sporadically. In any average social group, family or community, one would hear of only a very small minority of people having actually died. It was, comparatively, a sort of kid-gloves pandemic in terms of pure clinical impact. Compare that with hearing stories of a vast and utterly mysterious dying sweeping towards all that you know, only to suddenly hear one day of inhabitants in the outermost parts of your city falling like flies in the most disgusting of ways, and then being forced to watch the same thing you'd feared from rumor unfold before your very eyes to those you love, taking each of them in turn so terribly that you can barely bring yourself to even approach (let alone try help) these same people that you'e cherished since birth. This abyss of tragedy overwhelms you and all your senses before finally, just days later, you wake up with yet another exhausting morning to the discovery of nearly every single person you know being dead, and all the social tapestry that wove you together so richly across so many years now completely erased from your personal world. All this monstrous upheaval, in just a single week.
tolerance 1y ago
I was let down by the link to "plague" in the lede being internal. I don't know what I expected, because that's the norm. At the very least, what I'd like to see from news sites is using a LLM to synthesize the most recent/relevant stories to generate some sort of blurb explaining the topic for a given page. That is, if a human can't be bothered to do it themselves.

Which plague?

carterschonwald 1y ago

Bubonic

mcv 1y ago
According to the article, they're all the same plague, but it manifests differently based on which organs it hits. Apparently there's a couple of cases every year, but I've got to say that amidst the return of measles and various other diseases, the cuts in healthcare, this is not a great look.
- Waterluvian 1y ago
  Apparently it’s very easy to treat, if you can and do seek treatment. Which is why the annual deaths are usually rural regions.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    https://ruralhospitals.chqpr.org/Map.html https://ruralhospitals.chqpr.org/Map.html
  - ginko 1y ago
    From the article: >Symptoms often begin within a week of infection and may include fever, chills, swollen lymph nodes, nausea and weakness. If I had symptoms like that I think I'd just stay at home and not visit a doctor yet. Certainly not within 24 hours of them showing up.
    - jll29 1y ago
      Mumps, a common kid's viral disease, has overlapping symptoms, so many people might follow a "let's wait and see" approach. Also, medical practitioners may not immediately put on their bioharzard protection suite when someone walks in with swollen lymph nodes and nausea. That's why it is important to take news of incidents and location of the occurrence into consideration, both as a patient and as medical staff.
      - SoftTalker 1y ago
        Mumps is commonly vaccinated against when children are very young. It’s one of the Ms in the MMR vaccine.
        asyx 1y ago
        It’s 2025 my guy. Can’t count on kids getting vaccinated anymore.
        Waterluvian 1y ago
        Depends where you are. I guess the U.S. has an outsized representation online but it’s less than 5% of the world. Up here kids are not permitted to go to school without it. There’s some exceptions but they’re, in practice, very difficult to secure.
        SoftTalker 1y ago
        The vast majority are. Most parents are not idiots.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        0xbadcafebee 1y ago
        That may not be true. Most people are idiots, and most parents are people.
        eldaisfish 1y ago
        why, then, are measles cases on the rise in north america?
        SoftTalker 1y ago
        Its true that they are but the number of cases is still just around 1,000 which is not many in the context of the overall population, and only about 1/10 of the numbers we saw in the late 1980/early 1990s. Most parents still get their kids vaccinated. You hear about the few oddballs that don't when their kids get sick and it's trumpted all over the news as if it's a new pandemic.
- rayiner 1y ago
  As of July 2025, the U.S. had about 1,300 measles cases compared to over 2,700 in Canada as of May 2025: https://vaxopedia.org/2025/06/02/the-north-american-measles-outbreak-of-2025 https://vaxopedia.org/2025/06/02/the-north-american-measles-.... See also: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/us-measles-cases-hit-highest-number-33-years/story?id=123564379 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/us-measles-cases-hit-highest-n... Canada obviously had only 1/10th the population. Your attempted connection to domestic policies is spurious.
  - Waterluvian 1y ago
    I think the statistical anomaly you point out is an incredibly worthwhile thing to explore. There’s something to understand there. But I’m not sure it directly supports or refutes any arguments about domestic policies, other than perhaps saying that domestic policy making does not have a 100% guaranteed desired effect. There’s likely numerous other variables to explore.
    - rayiner 1y ago
      No, I’m agreeing that it’s not about domestic policies. That’s my point. OP tried to bring domestic cuts to Medicaid into the issue to make it sound like the measles cases in the U.S. have something to do with that domestic policy.
      - mcv 1y ago
        That's a misrepresentation. I did not claim that the cuts to medicaid caused the rise in measles; that would have been a silly claim, considering those cuts are being made right now, whereas the rise in measles is already ongoing. I'm saying it's part of a pattern. The rise in measles, after it was practically eliminated, is obviously caused by the rise in anti-vax beliefs. And that plus the other factors I mentioned are part of a pattern of carelessness and misinformation around public health. All of it put together, these are extremely worrisome developments.
        rayiner 1y ago

throw310822 1y ago

Yersinia pestis, the bubonic plague.

mplewis9z 1y ago
You do know that both pneumonic and bubonic are caused by the same bacterium, right? They’re just different transmission methods.
- throw310822 1y ago
  Indeed. I wrongly assumed it would be bubonic as it seems to be the most common form (and because it qualifies a bit the term "plague" which can be perceived as generic, I think).
  - lazide 1y ago
    Yes, many types of bacteria can cause ‘a plague’, but at least in the western world, only one was ‘The Plague’. Probably anyway, there is some debate on that. But it’s pretty likely.
- readthenotes1 1y ago
  You left one variant off, apparently: "Plague occurs in three forms, bubonic, septicemic and pneumonic, depending on whether the infection hits the lymph nodes, bloodstream or lungs. Most US cases are bubonic, typically spread via flea bites from infected rodents. " Given the discussion of the prairie dog die off, it's more interesting than it was mnemonic and not move on it for me fleas
  - Waterluvian 1y ago
    Mnemonic Plague People Learn About Germs Using Epidemiology
  - marssaxman 1y ago
    Many years ago, I knew a family who named the three squirrels who regularly visited their back yard "Bubonic", "Pneumonic", and "Septicemic". The squirrels did not respond to these names, but the family sure did find it amusing to use them.

lynndotpy 1y ago

Not stated in the article, but it's pneumonic plague, according to this story from azcentral and this story from CNN: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/2025/07/11/plague-death-arizona/84604256007/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/20... https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/12/health/plague-death-arizona https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/12/health/plague-death-arizona

Gys 1y ago
> Plague is a bacterial infection known for killing tens of millions in 14th century Europe. Today, it’s easily treated with antibiotics. > The bubonic plague is the most common form of the bacterial infection, which spreads naturally among rodents like prairie dogs and rats.
southernplaces7 1y ago
Nasty thing that. Bubonic plague became famous for killing nearly half the western world in the 14th century in just a few years, but for all its voracious destructiveness, the pneumonic variant left it in the dust in specific situations. I've read that in cities and towns where plague took on its pneumonic form instead of its bubonic variant, 80%+ of the local population would die in just days. In some cities struck by this, populations didn't recover until the 18th century.
- southernplaces7 1y ago
  I think it's innately impossible for us now in the comparatively near-sterile, social safety-laden developed world of today to imagine such grotesque death happening so suddenly on such a vast scale. The COVID pandemic, for all the fear and emergency measures it sparked mostly killed sporadically. In any average social group, family or community, one would hear of only a very small minority of people having actually died. It was, comparatively, a sort of kid-gloves pandemic in terms of pure clinical impact. Compare that with hearing stories of a vast and utterly mysterious dying sweeping towards all that you know, only to suddenly hear one day of inhabitants in the outermost parts of your city falling like flies in the most disgusting of ways, and then being forced to watch the same thing you'd feared from rumor unfold before your very eyes to those you love, taking each of them in turn so terribly that you can barely bring yourself to even approach (let alone try help) these same people that you'e cherished since birth. This abyss of tragedy overwhelms you and all your senses before finally, just days later, you wake up with yet another exhausting morning to the discovery of nearly every single person you know being dead, and all the social tapestry that wove you together so richly across so many years now completely erased from your personal world. All this monstrous upheaval, in just a single week.

tolerance 1y ago

I was let down by the link to "plague" in the lede being internal. I don't know what I expected, because that's the norm. At the very least, what I'd like to see from news sites is using a LLM to synthesize the most recent/relevant stories to generate some sort of blurb explaining the topic for a given page. That is, if a human can't be bothered to do it themselves.