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This article isn’t wrong, but it neglects to mention real estate, transportation, and lodging. A party needs a venue, and it needs guests. And the guests need a

This article isn’t wrong, but it neglects to mention real estate, transportation, and lodging. A party needs a venue, and it needs guests. And the guests need a way to get to and from the venue. If they stay a long time, they need a place to sleep. People these days don’t own real estate. Wealthy people own it all. Normal people are renting apartments or portions of homes. It’s kind of hard to throw a big party without a big home, a yard, a big kitchen, etc. Small apartments are for small get-togethers that probably don’t register as parties. Likewise, the larger someone’s home is, the more likely it is to be location in an area with low population density and little to no public transportation. Congrats, you can throw a party, but who are you inviting? All your friends are far away. How can they get there? How long can they stay? Can you accommodate them sleeping there? You aren’t friends with your neighbors who can party easily. You are friends with people on the Internet who are strewn about the world. And of course, if you live in a major city with lots of friends, small apartment strikes again. This is part of the reason we have seen the rise of more public events like conventions. There’s a hotel involved. It’s a multi-day event worth traveling to. A lot of people you know will be there. It costs everyone some money, but it’s not out of the realm to go a few times a year. Best part, nobody’s home gets trashed!

amgutier 1y ago
In my younger days I threw 100 person parties in a San Francisco apartment - it's standing room only for sure, but so is going to a crowded bar. And I've cooked for 15 without a dining table - you eat on the floor wherever you can find space. Now I don't disagree with your point; I'm not 22 anymore and live in the burbs and have a less full social calendar, largely due to the logistical overhead of finding my way into the city or getting friends from the city out here. But I do want to say you can have a lot of fun with a lot of friends in a small space with the right attitude :)
- esafak 1y ago
  That's the spirit!
- lisbbb 1y ago
  Instead of "don't disagree" please say: "I agree" it is proper English and not some stylized, holier-than-thou sounding, completely logically twisted up act.
  - lisbbb 1y ago
    I disagree with being downvoted for making such a simple request.
1oooqooq 1y ago
more importantly imo: maids and housewives. good riddance btw. but we need to adjust because partying is nice. we are still working ad if we have a free employee taking care of half our lives. welp, it's always a class issue.
sokoloff 1y ago
> Normal people are renting apartments or portions of homes. About 2/3 of households in the US own the home they live in. Renting is the minority, not the majority.
- Retric 1y ago
  Owning an apartment isn’t materially different than renting an apartment here. It’s sometimes better as many apartments have free or rentable spaces available for parties as a selling point, but rarely can you use that space late in the evening. Owning a home in an HOA area can drastically cut down on what kinds of parties you can host.
  - Gigachad 1y ago
    To some extent but there are differences. You have housing stability, a fixed price going forward, the ability to renovate most of the internals, and the ability to affix things to the walls without worrying about marks when you have to move out.
    - Retric 1y ago
      I don’t disagree, my comments was about the logistics of throwing a party.
    - BirAdam 1y ago
      Well… mostly fixed price. Property taxes go up every single year, and are now the largest single payment I make every year.
      - TheAmazingRace 1y ago
        This is a detail conveniently left out by home owners justifying their purchase, especially if they overpaid and have a higher interest rate on their mortgage on top of it. With a mortgage, the amount you pay is the expected floor you'll encounter, whereas with rent, the amount you pay is the maximum you'll deal with, at least for the duration of the lease agreement. Renting honestly can be a better deal, especially if you have the discipline to stick excess money in the market consistently. In fact, your returns are likely better than just using a house as a forced savings account. In my neck of the woods, we have seen rental inversion too.
DidYaWipe 1y ago
[flagged]
- hnpolicestate 1y ago
  You correctly blame corporate buy up of real estate as a problem but nobody ever cites upper income new immigrants as a problem. Where I live the only people purchasing $600k - $1 million residential properties are newly arrived Chinese, Eastern European, South Asian and Arab immigrants. Makes for a very angry native population who are being pushed out of the places they were born for new arrivals. We'll never be able to build enough housing to account for the continual flow of well to do immigrants and native population.
  - throw10920 1y ago
    In a twist that has multiple levels of irony, I've heard that there's protests going on in Mexico right now about this, with the wealthy immigrants/tourists being from the US.
    - hnpolicestate 1y ago
      I feel like Portugal had the same problem with wealthy foreigners purchasing all the real estate.
  - atonse 1y ago
    Are you claiming that they’re already well to do (by American standards) when they arrive? I can’t count a single immigrant in my network that was rich by American standards (which makes them filthy rich by most other nations standards) and then chose to move here. Sure my sample size is probably 30 families (across a dozen countries) but that’s not nothing. Every single one built their net worth here. Meaning that opportunity is also available to natives.
    - hnpolicestate 1y ago
      I promise I'm not gaslighting you. The majority of individuals buying residential real estate where I'm located are new arrivals or 1st generation. The Chinese circumstance is bizarre and has been going on for over 10-15 years. So they all use Chinese banks right? The rumor for years is that the Chinese government funnels the financing somehow to new arrivals to buy up real estate. They used to go up and down Brooklyn buying properties with over a million in cash. But barely speak English! It's just bizarre.
p_j_w 1y ago
>People these days don’t own real estate. Wealthy people own it all. The article says a similar decline is seen among the wealthy.
mathiaspoint 1y ago
My sister and her husband throw a pretty great annual Halloween party at the house they rent which is 1-2 hours from the nearest city and a good 15-20 minutes from the nearest town. I don't think the real estate situation helps but I think there's a deeper social problem driving both of those effects.
vjvjvjvjghv 1y ago
"People these days don’t own real estate. Wealthy people own it all. Normal people are renting apartments or portions of homes. " This is only true in some HCOL places ands big cities. Plenty of people own homes.
- throwawayq3423 1y ago
  Not in high-density areas like cities. People own homes in low density areas (middle of nowhere), which makes them isolated, hence no communal activities like partying.
  - ecshafer 1y ago
    In Philadelphia everyone I knew owned a home (condo, townhouse, rowhome or stand alone) by 30 basically.
    - throwawayq3423 1y ago
      Not trying to be offensive, but I would add second and third tier cities as viable for home ownership. Not the first tier.
pantalaimon 1y ago
I'm not convinced. I live in Berlin and everyone is living in a flat, yet I've had my fair share of home parties, even in small two room apartments where half the party spilled out to the stairwell.
- libertine 1y ago
  I don't think Berlin is a good example because partying is kind of part of the city subculture. People travel there literally to party.
  - Tainnor 1y ago
    People travel to Berlin to go party in clubs, not for home parties. Partying in someone's apartment is a thing in probably every reasonably sized city in Europe, not just Berlin. Although you should probably alert your neighbours.
    - dylan604 1y ago
      you could alert your neighbors, or better yet, invite them. alerting them is nice, but they could still get annoyed and complain, but someone at the party isn't going be doing much complaining
- Broken_Hippo 1y ago
  I'm pretty sure Berlin has public transportation. I have it here in Trondheim, Norway - but only one town that I've lived in the states had busses. They didn't run all night, on Sunday, nor did they visit all areas of the somewhat small town. (I'm from the US, lived more places there than I have in Norway) Other places had taxis (that you couldn't order ahead of time to get to work on time) and some had none until they uber/lyft. (Don't know the current situation). I'm going to guess the other thing Berlin has is safe areas to walk. I can go to a party and walk home, safely on walking paths complete with shortcuts, without even being harassed by the police and risk getting arrested and in jail for the night (for public intoxication). None of these were luxuries I had in the states. And I'll say that yes, I've been in some small apartments - but only some folks with small apartments can host. You probably have no clue how many would host if they only had enough space, but a small apartment with 2 adults that have hobbies limits things.
JKCalhoun 1y ago
US suburbs have not changed. I grew up in US suburbs (in the 70's and early 80's) and there was partying. My own personal theory? Music sucks now, ha ha.
- yesfitz 1y ago
  US suburbs have very much changed! The median new home size skyrocketed in the '80s.[1] Many of the post-war suburbs were planned communities built with schools, churches, grocery stores, and other necessities within walking distance.[2] Compare that to developments today (and since the '90s), that are all housing, lack sidewalks, and require a car to get to necessities. Serendipity doesn't happen when everyone's in cars. You don't pull over to invite an acquaintance over for a beer or offer to watch their kids. 1: https://www.bankrate.com/real-estate/average-home-size/#smaller https://www.bankrate.com/real-estate/average-home-size/#smal... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levitt_%26_Sons#Construction_of_Levittown,_New_York https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levitt_%26_Sons#Construction_o...
  - JKCalhoun 1y ago
    Good point. Car culture was nonetheless a thing even in the 70's though where I grew up up. And those 70's suburbs are still there. So I am not sure why they are still not partying in Overland Park and Prairie Village, Kansas.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago
  The consumption of music has changed. I almost never meet people who like the same bands as I do. I can listen to new music that I love at home. If I go to a bar or a party I'm going to mostly hear music I don't like, and if I do like it, I could have already heard it at home. Maybe that is part of it
- esafak 1y ago
  People rarely like music made decades after they were young; tastes settle.
  - 1y ago
os2warpman 1y ago
>People these days don’t own real estate. The home ownership rate has been 64%, plus or minus about 1%, for the last 45 years. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSAHORUSQ156S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSAHORUSQ156S
- cantSpellSober 1y ago
  The number of first-time home owners has plummeted though https://www.nar.realtor/research-and-statistics/research-reports/highlights-from-the-profile-of-home-buyers-and-sellers#homebuyers https://www.nar.realtor/research-and-statistics/research-rep...
- biker142541 1y ago
  Perhaps, but what about the median age of buyers? That tells a more complete story here https://www.axios.com/2024/11/04/home-buyer-age-older https://www.axios.com/2024/11/04/home-buyer-age-older
  - os2warpman 1y ago
    The median age of buyers has increased from 31 in 2004 to 38 in 2024. The median age of the population of the United States has increased from 35.3 in 2000 to 38.8 in 2020. (hmmmmm) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_Uni... As the population pyramid of the US, which is already a "population Empire State Building", further morphs into a "Population Baseball Diamond", I expect the median age of all buyers to increase and the percentage of owners by age group in the younger cohorts to decrease. Additionally, as the median age increases, because older people tend to have more money, I expect home prices to continue to increase. Honestly, I expect home prices to spike by 2035-2040 as the current crop of 50–60-year-olds reach retirement realizing that their only real prospect of not starving to death in retirement is the main (and often only) asset: their home. That will further stress younger folks, but people don't seem to care and anyone who expresses concern is denigrated as a communist so what is to be done? Regardless, with the homeownership rate for "under 35" fluctuating between ~41% in 1982 and ~37% in 2024 "nobody owns shit no mo" is still false. https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/charts/fig07.pdf https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/charts/fig07.pdf
jcranmer 1y ago
> People these days don’t own real estate. Wealthy people own it all. Normal people are renting apartments or portions of homes. If you look at a graph of home ownership in the US by cohort at various points in time (see, e.g., https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2018/08/homeownership-by-age.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2018/08/homeownership...), while the rates are somewhat lower, between the highest point and the lowest point the difference is at worst 10 percentage points. This sentiment strikes me a lot more as people in their 20's complaining that they're poor because they don't have the financial resources of someone in their 40's, despite having more resources than the latter did at their age.
- MichaelZuo 1y ago
  It is really strange to read complaints that the vast vast majority of 20 somethings have no chance of competing against older established households in the housing market. I would hope so, otherwise that would mean the country/locale is so bad that older households are packing their bags and fleeing. So the most desirable properties, such as large SFHs, townhouses, penthouses, etc… within a short driving distance of an attractive city will likely be owned by the latter, by definition.
  - PicassoCTs 1y ago
    The same managers - that then require asses in seats, keeping downtown valuable as investment, also own the mansion within driving distance. Might there be the remote possibility, of a no-win-scenario for the young, which results in violence? No way.
  - typewithrhythm 1y ago
    It's not a matter of competition around current supply, it's a complaint about policy that has lead to a decline in what a 20-something can purchase over time.
  - ryandrake 1y ago
    > It is really strange to read complaints that the vast vast majority of 20 somethings have no chance of competing against older established households in the housing market. Not to mention Private Equity and huge real estate investment firms that vacuum up a significant (if small) number of homes. Even if that 20 something could scrape together a 20% down payment and make an offer for asking price, they're going to get beaten by some corporation buying with cash.
aksss 1y ago
You need a home to party? News to my younger self. Parties in crowded shitty apartments, outdoors, or even in cars were the norm when we were young. This complaint - we don’t have nice houses so we can’t party - is unintentionally emblematic of the root issue in misaligned expectations and excuses for realigned priorities. Nobody Inknew when young had houses either. Look, it’s not obviously bad to me that young people party less. Blame gaming, blame some resurgent conservative cultural values, blame the internet or even laziness. Maybe the youth today just have better things to do, and that okay. Binge drinking, drugs, and stupid decisions aren’t necessary good investments in time, and many, many, friends from back in the day didn’t survive it. Like less kids smoking cigarettes, maybe this is a good thing (for them and all of us). But it’s ridiculous to try and turn this behavioral trend into some manifesto on housing inequality. Give me a break.
- Phanyxx 1y ago
  And even if every person did live in a detached home where they could hypothetically throw a party, there are smartphone connected Ring cameras everywhere. Parents always know what's going on now.
simplicio 1y ago
Eh, I feel like my (and most peoples) main exposure to house parties was in HS and college when basically no one owns their own home. Rented apartments, houses and family homes seemed to work fine then, I can't really think why that wouldn't be the case now. Note the age-group with the biggest drop is 15-24, its not like the average 18 year old owned their own home circa 1995.
Aurornis 1y ago
> People these days don’t own real estate. Wealthy people own it all. Normal people are renting apartments or portions of homes. It’s kind of hard to throw a big party without a big home, a yard, a big kitchen, etc. Small apartments are for small get-togethers that probably don’t register as parties. This is baffling to me. Most of the parties I went to in high school, college, and my 20s were in people's tiny apartments, small rented houses, and small yards. Maybe expectations changed? Now it seems more like people feel the need to get ready before going out, to bring something, to pre-coordinate to arrive with a group of friends, to have a lot of space, to have everything pre-cleaned and ready to be the background in photos, and maybe even to have a meat and cheese platter that gets posted to social media. It seems there's much less willingness to just go places, be cramped, and just hang out.
- blurbleblurble 1y ago
  People are tired
  - ammanley 1y ago
    always so much
  - fundad 1y ago
    And partying is expensive
- 98codes 1y ago
  Good insights -- people now have to have their party look good for their social feeds: insta, tiktok, whatever. I'm forever thankful that I never had to even think about that, and even if people were taking pictures, nobody gave a damn about the background.
  - fathomdeez 1y ago
    I go through this with my wife for every party we throw. She wants the house cleaned, table set, food spread ready, seasonal cocktails mixed, furniture moved around, decorations just so, etc. I’m like here’s a giant thing of ice cold booze have fun.
sershe 1y ago
That reminds me of an article I can't find anymore on the plight of the American poor couple trying to raise a child in a gasp 900sqft. Uh, check real estate sqft averages around the world? I never was much of a partier as a teen but I've been to a few, and they were all in flats ranging from much smaller than an American house to literally one room sometimes with 15 people in it. Had no problem falling asleep drunk on somebody's kitchen floor or on a couch in a room with a bunch of other people. Even in the US a dorm room (a tiny, rented place) is a stereotyped party location. Oh and ofc numbers are wrong. The houses in the US are bigger than ever and homeownership rate is smth like 60%.
mindslight 1y ago
This is such weird reasoning. When you're young and throwing parties where you're implicitly inviting a whole lot of people who you don't know, they will be bringing random chaos and you want to appear judgement proof and have it be someone else's property getting accelerated wear and tear. By the time you own a house with a yard, you're only inviting people you already know, with maybe one layer of transitive trust. Perhaps this focus on owning a house as the first step to doing anything points to the real problem though?
jajko 1y ago
Jeez, youngish people feeling left out on investing into real estate see it as root of most of problems this world is facing now. Sorry but can't agree, as do most folks here backing up with some hard data. That 'glass is half-empty' approach to daily life ain't healthy long term, ever thought about that?
DoneWithAllThat 1y ago
This is just absolute total nonsense. Normal people do own real estate. Lots of people rented back then and do now. Friends were “far away” back then too, they took their cars, bummed rides, took buses, whatever. Where do they sleep? Where do you think they slept back then? The floor, the couch, the lawn, or they didn’t sleep at all and just went home in the morning.
ike2792 1y ago
I'm not saying this isn't part of the problem, but my experience has been different. When I was in my 20s, my friends and I all lived in apartments and had parties fairly often. I recall that when I was a kid in the 90s my parents often went to small house parties as well. Now, in my 40s, neither I nor anyone I know ever goes to parties despite us all owning houses and cars and living fairly close to one another. My theory is that people have fewer parties because people have gotten flakier about attending larger social events. It is much easier to cancel plans at the last minute with a text or a social media DM, and people always seem to want to keep their options open. We've moved to getting together only with one other couple/family at a time b/c any time we try to have larger group events half of the invite list will cancel the day of.
leptons 1y ago
No, owning a house does not give you more license to throw a party. Not owning a car never stopped anyone determined to go to a party. A place to sleep? What kind of party are you imagining in your head? One where people travel hundreds of miles and need a hotel? Your take is ridiculous. People party in small apartments all the time, I've been to hundreds. I took the bus there many times, or got rides from other friends going to the party, and now ride-sharing is a thing. Sleep?? That was never, ever part of the equation. I know it's a tired cliche, and usually used as a troll, but I can confidently say that you obviously don't get invited to many parties.
ianferrel 1y ago
Homeownership rates in the US fluctuate, but are basically flat over the past ~45 years. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSAHORUSQ156S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSAHORUSQ156S
Klonoar 1y ago
> And the guests need a way to get to and from the venue. Add in the odd issue of younger people not getting their drivers licenses or owning/having access to a car. It could be anecdotal but I've seen this in a number of locales across the country. Curious if there's hard numbers on it.
9rx 1y ago
> Wealthy people own it all. Most homes in the US are mortgaged. More likely the banks, which ultimately means the depositors, who are just as likely to be everyday average people (the wealthy normally keep their wealth in things like businesses), own most of it.

amgutier 1y ago

In my younger days I threw 100 person parties in a San Francisco apartment - it's standing room only for sure, but so is going to a crowded bar. And I've cooked for 15 without a dining table - you eat on the floor wherever you can find space. Now I don't disagree with your point; I'm not 22 anymore and live in the burbs and have a less full social calendar, largely due to the logistical overhead of finding my way into the city or getting friends from the city out here. But I do want to say you can have a lot of fun with a lot of friends in a small space with the right attitude :)

esafak 1y ago
That's the spirit!
lisbbb 1y ago
Instead of "don't disagree" please say: "I agree" it is proper English and not some stylized, holier-than-thou sounding, completely logically twisted up act.
- lisbbb 1y ago
  I disagree with being downvoted for making such a simple request.

1oooqooq 1y ago

more importantly imo: maids and housewives. good riddance btw. but we need to adjust because partying is nice. we are still working ad if we have a free employee taking care of half our lives. welp, it's always a class issue.

sokoloff 1y ago

> Normal people are renting apartments or portions of homes. About 2/3 of households in the US own the home they live in. Renting is the minority, not the majority.

Retric 1y ago
Owning an apartment isn’t materially different than renting an apartment here. It’s sometimes better as many apartments have free or rentable spaces available for parties as a selling point, but rarely can you use that space late in the evening. Owning a home in an HOA area can drastically cut down on what kinds of parties you can host.
- Gigachad 1y ago
  To some extent but there are differences. You have housing stability, a fixed price going forward, the ability to renovate most of the internals, and the ability to affix things to the walls without worrying about marks when you have to move out.
  - Retric 1y ago
    I don’t disagree, my comments was about the logistics of throwing a party.
  - BirAdam 1y ago
    Well… mostly fixed price. Property taxes go up every single year, and are now the largest single payment I make every year.
    - TheAmazingRace 1y ago
      This is a detail conveniently left out by home owners justifying their purchase, especially if they overpaid and have a higher interest rate on their mortgage on top of it. With a mortgage, the amount you pay is the expected floor you'll encounter, whereas with rent, the amount you pay is the maximum you'll deal with, at least for the duration of the lease agreement. Renting honestly can be a better deal, especially if you have the discipline to stick excess money in the market consistently. In fact, your returns are likely better than just using a house as a forced savings account. In my neck of the woods, we have seen rental inversion too.

DidYaWipe 1y ago

[flagged]

hnpolicestate 1y ago
You correctly blame corporate buy up of real estate as a problem but nobody ever cites upper income new immigrants as a problem. Where I live the only people purchasing $600k - $1 million residential properties are newly arrived Chinese, Eastern European, South Asian and Arab immigrants. Makes for a very angry native population who are being pushed out of the places they were born for new arrivals. We'll never be able to build enough housing to account for the continual flow of well to do immigrants and native population.
- throw10920 1y ago
  In a twist that has multiple levels of irony, I've heard that there's protests going on in Mexico right now about this, with the wealthy immigrants/tourists being from the US.
  - hnpolicestate 1y ago
    I feel like Portugal had the same problem with wealthy foreigners purchasing all the real estate.
- atonse 1y ago
  Are you claiming that they’re already well to do (by American standards) when they arrive? I can’t count a single immigrant in my network that was rich by American standards (which makes them filthy rich by most other nations standards) and then chose to move here. Sure my sample size is probably 30 families (across a dozen countries) but that’s not nothing. Every single one built their net worth here. Meaning that opportunity is also available to natives.
  - hnpolicestate 1y ago
    I promise I'm not gaslighting you. The majority of individuals buying residential real estate where I'm located are new arrivals or 1st generation. The Chinese circumstance is bizarre and has been going on for over 10-15 years. So they all use Chinese banks right? The rumor for years is that the Chinese government funnels the financing somehow to new arrivals to buy up real estate. They used to go up and down Brooklyn buying properties with over a million in cash. But barely speak English! It's just bizarre.

p_j_w 1y ago

>People these days don’t own real estate. Wealthy people own it all. The article says a similar decline is seen among the wealthy.

mathiaspoint 1y ago

My sister and her husband throw a pretty great annual Halloween party at the house they rent which is 1-2 hours from the nearest city and a good 15-20 minutes from the nearest town. I don't think the real estate situation helps but I think there's a deeper social problem driving both of those effects.

vjvjvjvjghv 1y ago

"People these days don’t own real estate. Wealthy people own it all. Normal people are renting apartments or portions of homes. " This is only true in some HCOL places ands big cities. Plenty of people own homes.

throwawayq3423 1y ago
Not in high-density areas like cities. People own homes in low density areas (middle of nowhere), which makes them isolated, hence no communal activities like partying.
- ecshafer 1y ago
  In Philadelphia everyone I knew owned a home (condo, townhouse, rowhome or stand alone) by 30 basically.
  - throwawayq3423 1y ago
    Not trying to be offensive, but I would add second and third tier cities as viable for home ownership. Not the first tier.

pantalaimon 1y ago

I'm not convinced. I live in Berlin and everyone is living in a flat, yet I've had my fair share of home parties, even in small two room apartments where half the party spilled out to the stairwell.

libertine 1y ago
I don't think Berlin is a good example because partying is kind of part of the city subculture. People travel there literally to party.
- Tainnor 1y ago
  People travel to Berlin to go party in clubs, not for home parties. Partying in someone's apartment is a thing in probably every reasonably sized city in Europe, not just Berlin. Although you should probably alert your neighbours.
  - dylan604 1y ago
    you could alert your neighbors, or better yet, invite them. alerting them is nice, but they could still get annoyed and complain, but someone at the party isn't going be doing much complaining
Broken_Hippo 1y ago
I'm pretty sure Berlin has public transportation. I have it here in Trondheim, Norway - but only one town that I've lived in the states had busses. They didn't run all night, on Sunday, nor did they visit all areas of the somewhat small town. (I'm from the US, lived more places there than I have in Norway) Other places had taxis (that you couldn't order ahead of time to get to work on time) and some had none until they uber/lyft. (Don't know the current situation). I'm going to guess the other thing Berlin has is safe areas to walk. I can go to a party and walk home, safely on walking paths complete with shortcuts, without even being harassed by the police and risk getting arrested and in jail for the night (for public intoxication). None of these were luxuries I had in the states. And I'll say that yes, I've been in some small apartments - but only some folks with small apartments can host. You probably have no clue how many would host if they only had enough space, but a small apartment with 2 adults that have hobbies limits things.

JKCalhoun 1y ago

US suburbs have not changed. I grew up in US suburbs (in the 70's and early 80's) and there was partying. My own personal theory? Music sucks now, ha ha.

yesfitz 1y ago
US suburbs have very much changed! The median new home size skyrocketed in the '80s.[1] Many of the post-war suburbs were planned communities built with schools, churches, grocery stores, and other necessities within walking distance.[2] Compare that to developments today (and since the '90s), that are all housing, lack sidewalks, and require a car to get to necessities. Serendipity doesn't happen when everyone's in cars. You don't pull over to invite an acquaintance over for a beer or offer to watch their kids. 1: https://www.bankrate.com/real-estate/average-home-size/#smaller https://www.bankrate.com/real-estate/average-home-size/#smal... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levitt_%26_Sons#Construction_of_Levittown,_New_York https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levitt_%26_Sons#Construction_o...
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  Good point. Car culture was nonetheless a thing even in the 70's though where I grew up up. And those 70's suburbs are still there. So I am not sure why they are still not partying in Overland Park and Prairie Village, Kansas.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago
The consumption of music has changed. I almost never meet people who like the same bands as I do. I can listen to new music that I love at home. If I go to a bar or a party I'm going to mostly hear music I don't like, and if I do like it, I could have already heard it at home. Maybe that is part of it
esafak 1y ago
People rarely like music made decades after they were young; tastes settle.
- 1y ago

os2warpman 1y ago

>People these days don’t own real estate. The home ownership rate has been 64%, plus or minus about 1%, for the last 45 years. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSAHORUSQ156S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSAHORUSQ156S

cantSpellSober 1y ago
The number of first-time home owners has plummeted though https://www.nar.realtor/research-and-statistics/research-reports/highlights-from-the-profile-of-home-buyers-and-sellers#homebuyers https://www.nar.realtor/research-and-statistics/research-rep...
biker142541 1y ago
Perhaps, but what about the median age of buyers? That tells a more complete story here https://www.axios.com/2024/11/04/home-buyer-age-older https://www.axios.com/2024/11/04/home-buyer-age-older
- os2warpman 1y ago
  The median age of buyers has increased from 31 in 2004 to 38 in 2024. The median age of the population of the United States has increased from 35.3 in 2000 to 38.8 in 2020. (hmmmmm) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_Uni... As the population pyramid of the US, which is already a "population Empire State Building", further morphs into a "Population Baseball Diamond", I expect the median age of all buyers to increase and the percentage of owners by age group in the younger cohorts to decrease. Additionally, as the median age increases, because older people tend to have more money, I expect home prices to continue to increase. Honestly, I expect home prices to spike by 2035-2040 as the current crop of 50–60-year-olds reach retirement realizing that their only real prospect of not starving to death in retirement is the main (and often only) asset: their home. That will further stress younger folks, but people don't seem to care and anyone who expresses concern is denigrated as a communist so what is to be done? Regardless, with the homeownership rate for "under 35" fluctuating between ~41% in 1982 and ~37% in 2024 "nobody owns shit no mo" is still false. https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/charts/fig07.pdf https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/data/charts/fig07.pdf

jcranmer 1y ago

> People these days don’t own real estate. Wealthy people own it all. Normal people are renting apartments or portions of homes. If you look at a graph of home ownership in the US by cohort at various points in time (see, e.g., https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2018/08/homeownership-by-age.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2018/08/homeownership...), while the rates are somewhat lower, between the highest point and the lowest point the difference is at worst 10 percentage points. This sentiment strikes me a lot more as people in their 20's complaining that they're poor because they don't have the financial resources of someone in their 40's, despite having more resources than the latter did at their age.

MichaelZuo 1y ago
It is really strange to read complaints that the vast vast majority of 20 somethings have no chance of competing against older established households in the housing market. I would hope so, otherwise that would mean the country/locale is so bad that older households are packing their bags and fleeing. So the most desirable properties, such as large SFHs, townhouses, penthouses, etc… within a short driving distance of an attractive city will likely be owned by the latter, by definition.
- PicassoCTs 1y ago
  The same managers - that then require asses in seats, keeping downtown valuable as investment, also own the mansion within driving distance. Might there be the remote possibility, of a no-win-scenario for the young, which results in violence? No way.
- typewithrhythm 1y ago
  It's not a matter of competition around current supply, it's a complaint about policy that has lead to a decline in what a 20-something can purchase over time.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  > It is really strange to read complaints that the vast vast majority of 20 somethings have no chance of competing against older established households in the housing market. Not to mention Private Equity and huge real estate investment firms that vacuum up a significant (if small) number of homes. Even if that 20 something could scrape together a 20% down payment and make an offer for asking price, they're going to get beaten by some corporation buying with cash.

aksss 1y ago

You need a home to party? News to my younger self. Parties in crowded shitty apartments, outdoors, or even in cars were the norm when we were young. This complaint - we don’t have nice houses so we can’t party - is unintentionally emblematic of the root issue in misaligned expectations and excuses for realigned priorities. Nobody Inknew when young had houses either. Look, it’s not obviously bad to me that young people party less. Blame gaming, blame some resurgent conservative cultural values, blame the internet or even laziness. Maybe the youth today just have better things to do, and that okay. Binge drinking, drugs, and stupid decisions aren’t necessary good investments in time, and many, many, friends from back in the day didn’t survive it. Like less kids smoking cigarettes, maybe this is a good thing (for them and all of us). But it’s ridiculous to try and turn this behavioral trend into some manifesto on housing inequality. Give me a break.

Phanyxx 1y ago
And even if every person did live in a detached home where they could hypothetically throw a party, there are smartphone connected Ring cameras everywhere. Parents always know what's going on now.

simplicio 1y ago

Eh, I feel like my (and most peoples) main exposure to house parties was in HS and college when basically no one owns their own home. Rented apartments, houses and family homes seemed to work fine then, I can't really think why that wouldn't be the case now. Note the age-group with the biggest drop is 15-24, its not like the average 18 year old owned their own home circa 1995.

Aurornis 1y ago

> People these days don’t own real estate. Wealthy people own it all. Normal people are renting apartments or portions of homes. It’s kind of hard to throw a big party without a big home, a yard, a big kitchen, etc. Small apartments are for small get-togethers that probably don’t register as parties. This is baffling to me. Most of the parties I went to in high school, college, and my 20s were in people's tiny apartments, small rented houses, and small yards. Maybe expectations changed? Now it seems more like people feel the need to get ready before going out, to bring something, to pre-coordinate to arrive with a group of friends, to have a lot of space, to have everything pre-cleaned and ready to be the background in photos, and maybe even to have a meat and cheese platter that gets posted to social media. It seems there's much less willingness to just go places, be cramped, and just hang out.

blurbleblurble 1y ago
People are tired
- ammanley 1y ago
  always so much
- fundad 1y ago
  And partying is expensive
98codes 1y ago
Good insights -- people now have to have their party look good for their social feeds: insta, tiktok, whatever. I'm forever thankful that I never had to even think about that, and even if people were taking pictures, nobody gave a damn about the background.
- fathomdeez 1y ago
  I go through this with my wife for every party we throw. She wants the house cleaned, table set, food spread ready, seasonal cocktails mixed, furniture moved around, decorations just so, etc. I’m like here’s a giant thing of ice cold booze have fun.

sershe 1y ago

That reminds me of an article I can't find anymore on the plight of the American poor couple trying to raise a child in a gasp 900sqft. Uh, check real estate sqft averages around the world? I never was much of a partier as a teen but I've been to a few, and they were all in flats ranging from much smaller than an American house to literally one room sometimes with 15 people in it. Had no problem falling asleep drunk on somebody's kitchen floor or on a couch in a room with a bunch of other people. Even in the US a dorm room (a tiny, rented place) is a stereotyped party location. Oh and ofc numbers are wrong. The houses in the US are bigger than ever and homeownership rate is smth like 60%.

mindslight 1y ago

This is such weird reasoning. When you're young and throwing parties where you're implicitly inviting a whole lot of people who you don't know, they will be bringing random chaos and you want to appear judgement proof and have it be someone else's property getting accelerated wear and tear. By the time you own a house with a yard, you're only inviting people you already know, with maybe one layer of transitive trust. Perhaps this focus on owning a house as the first step to doing anything points to the real problem though?

jajko 1y ago

Jeez, youngish people feeling left out on investing into real estate see it as root of most of problems this world is facing now. Sorry but can't agree, as do most folks here backing up with some hard data. That 'glass is half-empty' approach to daily life ain't healthy long term, ever thought about that?

DoneWithAllThat 1y ago

This is just absolute total nonsense. Normal people do own real estate. Lots of people rented back then and do now. Friends were “far away” back then too, they took their cars, bummed rides, took buses, whatever. Where do they sleep? Where do you think they slept back then? The floor, the couch, the lawn, or they didn’t sleep at all and just went home in the morning.

ike2792 1y ago

I'm not saying this isn't part of the problem, but my experience has been different. When I was in my 20s, my friends and I all lived in apartments and had parties fairly often. I recall that when I was a kid in the 90s my parents often went to small house parties as well. Now, in my 40s, neither I nor anyone I know ever goes to parties despite us all owning houses and cars and living fairly close to one another. My theory is that people have fewer parties because people have gotten flakier about attending larger social events. It is much easier to cancel plans at the last minute with a text or a social media DM, and people always seem to want to keep their options open. We've moved to getting together only with one other couple/family at a time b/c any time we try to have larger group events half of the invite list will cancel the day of.

leptons 1y ago

No, owning a house does not give you more license to throw a party. Not owning a car never stopped anyone determined to go to a party. A place to sleep? What kind of party are you imagining in your head? One where people travel hundreds of miles and need a hotel? Your take is ridiculous. People party in small apartments all the time, I've been to hundreds. I took the bus there many times, or got rides from other friends going to the party, and now ride-sharing is a thing. Sleep?? That was never, ever part of the equation. I know it's a tired cliche, and usually used as a troll, but I can confidently say that you obviously don't get invited to many parties.

ianferrel 1y ago

Homeownership rates in the US fluctuate, but are basically flat over the past ~45 years. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSAHORUSQ156S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSAHORUSQ156S

Klonoar 1y ago

> And the guests need a way to get to and from the venue. Add in the odd issue of younger people not getting their drivers licenses or owning/having access to a car. It could be anecdotal but I've seen this in a number of locales across the country. Curious if there's hard numbers on it.

9rx 1y ago

> Wealthy people own it all. Most homes in the US are mortgaged. More likely the banks, which ultimately means the depositors, who are just as likely to be everyday average people (the wealthy normally keep their wealth in things like businesses), own most of it.