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You're never going to be able to change the economic system for the entire population where you live. Better to vote with your feet and move to a country where

You're never going to be able to change the economic system for the entire population where you live. Better to vote with your feet and move to a country where all economic activity is arranged for "the common good". There are many, many such countries. You're not the first with that idea. That of course won't mean that you will have the privilege of deciding for everyone else what counts as "the common good". It's unfortunately not like the Arch Linux terminal where you are omnipotent. I say that sincerely, as somebody who had to do just that. It's easier for Mohammad to go to the mountain. Edit: To say: I voted with my feet and moved to a place which better aligns with my values. From a "common good" society to a "freedom" society.

j7ake 1y ago
Please name a few such places
- neom 1y ago
  Off the top of my head, Costa Rica, Bhutan, Canada, Norway/Sweden? A good read: https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/costa-rica-enlightenment-model-by-joseph-e--stiglitz-2018-05 https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/costa-rica-enli...
- carlosjobim 1y ago
  Any communist country of your preference.
- jajko 1y ago
  Switzerland... the best actually long term sustainable and working capitalism I've seen. All freedom US craves so much for (and much more) while stronger social state than next to nothing US has for its weaker part of society
  - j7ake 1y ago
    Switzerland is not a good place for working moms. It is a very conservative country, for example working moms are systematically discriminated. The society, police, insurance, and banks enforce a conformity to a conservative, male-dominated society. https://www.businessinsider.com/female-breadwinner-moved-switzerland-job-google-2024-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/female-breadwinner-moved-swi...
kelseyfrog 1y ago
One small question: how did those places manage to change the economic system for the entire population?
- carlosjobim 1y ago
  Most famously they did it by a "great leap".
  - kelseyfrog 1y ago
    Can you explain how that model isn't generalizable while avoiding describing the consequences? I want to know why it can't work not how it fails.
    - carlosjobim 1y ago
      After Stalin's death, the Soviet union wasn't a total failure. And few can argue that China is a total failure today. But they paid a much higher price than what's acceptable. To make a somewhat successful "common good" society you first need to exterminate large swatches of the population. (This includes Scandinavian countries, which is less common knowledge). Then you can build on the new generation which won't resist - for a while. And the results are still lack luster, depending on your measuring stick. There's no general way to model, only empirical evidence. Unless I'm supposed to enter the mind and soul of people and see their motives and reasoning. But I'll give a one word answer: pride.
      - trinsic2 1y ago
        Kind of sounds like what is happening now in the west under our current financial/economic system, albeit slowly by manufacturing crisis's and health problems to whittle down the population. >To make a somewhat successful "common good" society you first need to exterminate large swatches of the population It sounds like you are conflating "common good" with authoritarianism. Common good happens at the grass roots level and then spreads by consensus. Doesnt mean it will happen on a large scale, esp if there are larger forces at work. It seems like this is a population size problem to me. Or at least a concentration of large populations in a small area (Cities). Maybe the trick is to spread out the population a bit more and prevent areas from becoming over populated somehow. I don't have the data in front of me right now, but there are some sources that say when groups become to large people vie for attention which causes the most egoic people to try and dominate the areas that they are in. Thus this creates social circles that try to gain power for powers sake and do not contribute to society.

j7ake 1y ago

Please name a few such places

neom 1y ago
Off the top of my head, Costa Rica, Bhutan, Canada, Norway/Sweden? A good read: https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/costa-rica-enlightenment-model-by-joseph-e--stiglitz-2018-05 https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/costa-rica-enli...
carlosjobim 1y ago
Any communist country of your preference.
jajko 1y ago
Switzerland... the best actually long term sustainable and working capitalism I've seen. All freedom US craves so much for (and much more) while stronger social state than next to nothing US has for its weaker part of society
- j7ake 1y ago
  Switzerland is not a good place for working moms. It is a very conservative country, for example working moms are systematically discriminated. The society, police, insurance, and banks enforce a conformity to a conservative, male-dominated society. https://www.businessinsider.com/female-breadwinner-moved-switzerland-job-google-2024-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/female-breadwinner-moved-swi...

kelseyfrog 1y ago

One small question: how did those places manage to change the economic system for the entire population?

carlosjobim 1y ago
Most famously they did it by a "great leap".
- kelseyfrog 1y ago
  Can you explain how that model isn't generalizable while avoiding describing the consequences? I want to know why it can't work not how it fails.
  - carlosjobim 1y ago
    After Stalin's death, the Soviet union wasn't a total failure. And few can argue that China is a total failure today. But they paid a much higher price than what's acceptable. To make a somewhat successful "common good" society you first need to exterminate large swatches of the population. (This includes Scandinavian countries, which is less common knowledge). Then you can build on the new generation which won't resist - for a while. And the results are still lack luster, depending on your measuring stick. There's no general way to model, only empirical evidence. Unless I'm supposed to enter the mind and soul of people and see their motives and reasoning. But I'll give a one word answer: pride.
    - trinsic2 1y ago
      Kind of sounds like what is happening now in the west under our current financial/economic system, albeit slowly by manufacturing crisis's and health problems to whittle down the population. >To make a somewhat successful "common good" society you first need to exterminate large swatches of the population It sounds like you are conflating "common good" with authoritarianism. Common good happens at the grass roots level and then spreads by consensus. Doesnt mean it will happen on a large scale, esp if there are larger forces at work. It seems like this is a population size problem to me. Or at least a concentration of large populations in a small area (Cities). Maybe the trick is to spread out the population a bit more and prevent areas from becoming over populated somehow. I don't have the data in front of me right now, but there are some sources that say when groups become to large people vie for attention which causes the most egoic people to try and dominate the areas that they are in. Thus this creates social circles that try to gain power for powers sake and do not contribute to society.