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I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment

I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength. When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an excuse for glimpses of abhorrence being reported - "it's a small number of people in power, not the Israeli nation doing it, and also there are always 2 sides to the story". Since then, there have been unfathomable horrors and crimes against humanity done from the Israel side, with extreme intensity and one-sidedness, and it's now been going for so long. I can find no excuse of any kind anymore, for what has been and is being done in Gaza. I don't think any normal person could. The weight of these things, in my mind at least, is such that if the Israeli people really wanted anything different, it was their human duty and utmost responsibility to stop this by now, in whatever way needed. They didn't... It's sad that people who have suffered so much as well, let themselves become the villains to this depth and extent.

xg15 1y ago
I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood experience terror attacks themselves. That this upbringing doesn't exactly make you want to engage with the other side is psychologically understandable. (I'm imaging this as the universal experience of all Jewish Israelis, religious or secular, left or right. I'm excluding the religious and Zionist-ideological angles here, because those are a whole different matter once again) What I absolutely cannot understand is the behavior of our states. We're pretending to be neutral mediators who want nothing more than to end the conflict, yet in reality, we're doing everything to keep the conflict going. We're fully subscribed to Zionist narrative of an exclusive Israeli right to the land (the justifications ranging from ostensibly antifascist to openly religious) and we're even throwing our own values about universal human rights and national sovereignty under the bus to follow the narrative. If the messianic and dehumanizing tendencies of Israelis are answered by nothing else than full support and encouragement of their allies, I don't find it exactly surprising that they will grow.
- IG_Semmelweiss 1y ago
  I dont disagree with anything you said, but isn't that the role of elected leaders ? Actually making the difficult decisions that may be unpopular, but necessary ? Or is it the leader class in most western countries have no sense of duty , are effectively cowards, and are in it just to have a profitable, white-collar career ?
  - hidingfearful 1y ago
    > Or is it the leader class in most western countries have no sense of duty , are effectively cowards, and are in it just to have a profitable, white-collar career ? They are cowards who are just in it to enrich themselves by bribery, theft, and extortion. You are looking in the right direction and not seeing just how far our society has gone.
    - rixed 1y ago
      And they may even find it comforting that it's OK to bomb innocent civilians for years because that's the only solution they can think of to deal with their own dissatisfied populace ultimately, when things will predictably get worse in Europe as well...? It's not Russia or terrorism they are afraid of.
  - awkwardpotato 1y ago
    > Actually making the difficult decisions that may be unpopular, but necessary ? What is the unpopular, necessary decision? GP is commenting on the US/EUs continual campaigns to arm and fund Israel's efforts in Gaza without pushback. I don't wish to misinterpret you, but this read to me, that funding/aiding human rights violations and genocide in Gaza is a "necessary" act.
  - dmix 1y ago
    It's a bunch of >60yr old western leaders who had 40yrs of seeing violence and terrorism in Israel and Palestine, and every couple years a naive western leader announces they want to fix it, while nothing changes. People are just numb to the whole area. The most difficult part is the fact Israel is wealthy and aggressive while (both) Palestine government has been the definition of dysfunction and tribalism for decades, even during peace times. Diplomatic solutions have became harder and harder since the 90s. You can read the history the political bodies in West Bank and even they seem to not care to fix anything either. They have their own leadership issues (like never electing new leaders). There’s a major gap between a western savior wanting something bad to stop and actually going there and accomplishing something.
7sigma 1y ago
This point of view whitewashes a lot of the history. Israel has been doing horrible things since its founding to Palestinians, starting with the Nakba in 1948 which was an ethnic cleaning campaign to create an ethno state. Many massacres occurred like in Deir Yassin in 1948 and continued with other massacres like in Kahn Younis in 1956 where they lined up more than 200 men over 15 and executed them against the wall. With the continued persecution of Palestinians, whether its the illegal occupation of the west bank or the siege of Gaza which was essentially a concentration camp, that was "mowed" like grass every few years in terrorist bombing campaigns by Israel, its no surprise that organisations like Hamas, originally a humanitarian charity, exist. Israelis want peace through domination, just like the French in Algeria. Be aware that Jews are not native to Palestine, except those that had been living there before the state was founded. They are living as colonialists on stolen land, and are continually denying the native Palestinians the right to return, which is part of the definition ethnic cleansing. I say this as Jewish person originally born in Palestine (or Israel) and who had grandparents that survivide the Holocaust. Once I read about what really happened in 1948, that it was zionist terrorist militias that started the conflict and that Palestinians did not "simply leave", I became an anti zionist. I don't think Israel has the right to exist. People have the right to exist and they have the right to fight back against jewish supremacism.
- ost-ing 1y ago
  > Be aware that Jews are not native to Palestine, except those that had been living there before the state was founded. Not true, many Semitic Jews who fled from those lands due to persecution went to Europe and North Africa, that includes Ashkenazi and Sephardim Jews. The difficulty I have with your statement is akin to denying a white, blue eyed aboriginal in Australia their heritage to the land just because one of their ancestors slept with a European colonialist - its fundamentally racist. White skinned blue eyed Australian aboriginals exist.
  - prmoustache 1y ago
    Palestinians are genetically closer to the jews that populated those lands centuries ago. The reality is palestinians ancestors were mostly jews who decided to convert to islam. Denying their rights to continue living there is absurd. The state of Israel is just another example of euro white colonialism.
wat10000 1y ago
I’m becoming very skeptical of the “bad government, good people” idea. Governments need popular support. This goes even for horrible dictatorships. There are degrees, of course. An oppressive state can survive with less popular support than a democracy. But it still needs a decent amount. The machinery of dictatorship is as much about keeping popular support as it is about forcing people to suppress their opposition.
- barbazoo 1y ago
  These people are manipulated by the media and by their government and by their spiritual leaders.
  - wat10000 1y ago
    Could be, but that doesn’t really matter in the end. Support is support.
    - anton-c 1y ago
      You were judging the morality of the people in your above comment. Being manipulated into giving support doesn't make the people bad.
      - wat10000 1y ago
        At some point people have to be responsible for themselves if the concept of responsibility is to have any meaning at all. Our views and actions are all the product of our environment.
        anton-c 1y ago
        > Our views and actions are all the product of our environment. And if that view is manipulated by people way more powerful than you... I'm all for personal responsibility but we have laws against certain practices because companies can hack brains so well. You don't think states can do it just as well if not better?
Newtonip 1y ago
It's a state founded on ethnic cleansing. People were already living there when settlers came to create an ethno-state for themselves. In late 1947, their militias begun a campaign of massacring and expelling Palestinians from mostly defenseless villages. These refuges pouring into neighboring Arab countries is what prompted the 1948 war. When the war ended, they murdered any civilians trying to return to their homes. Gaza was originally a refugee camp created for receiving these expelled people. The ethnic cleansing and denial of rights has continued ever since. The current Gaza war is not when the crimes against humanity started. Israel has been commiting crimes against humanity throughout its entire existence.
- avip 1y ago
  Many states were "founded on ethnic cleansing". They are widely considered to posses a right of existence, and even expected to defend their citizens. (excuse me for ignoring the history trolling)
  - breakyerself 1y ago
    A right to exist doesn't justify a million other things that are completely unacceptable about the Israeli state.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - polynomial 1y ago
        It's a popular opinion these days, all the cool kids are doing it
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > It's a popular opinion these days Westerners with no connection to the Middle East deciding they know best for the people actually there has been a popular opinion for a long time.
nashashmi 1y ago
I would put myself in the timeframe of the Holocaust era. Germans were next to the concentration camps and they did nothing. Germans were conditioned to support nationalism. And they trusted the nationalist party (known as nazionale Party). The Germans had convinced themselves that the Jews were different people. (And the Jews had earned much infamy during the time when Germany was suffering economically.) Today, we see Israelis who are taught to perceive Palestinians as enemies. They see the Palestinian flag during birthrights and are taught by the IDF to hate it. And they are also taught that the west bank is dangerous and they are not to go there. Then we see IDF operations in West Bank and we see silence. We know Gaza is in a plight caused by Israel and we see silence and ignorance. Israel is bad. Israelis are bad too. And the polls have shown that 80% wish for Gaza to be cleansed, 56% support the forced expulsion of Arab citizens of Israel, 47% want the IDF to act according to the Biblical war against Jericho. That is effectively 47% want murder while 33% want expulsion (equivalent of the ghettos+concentration camps). The benefit of doubt is disappearing rapidly fast. And the west has been supporting Israel for decades in this campaign. This is the second millenial crusade of Europe (aka the west).
barbazoo 1y ago
Brainwashing by the government, religion, the media, schools, etc is what I suspect based on documentaries I watched. It’s heartbreaking what people can be made to think and say. I feel bad for the citizens of Israel to have become detached so much from humanity.
vFunct 1y ago
[flagged]
- stormfather 1y ago
  Netanyahu, when addressing the troops, even said "Do not forget what Amalek has done to you", invoking the memory of the biblical commandment to genocide the Amalekites.
  - vFunct 1y ago
    Reposting as it was flagged by Zionists: You don't have to have sympathy for them. Their religion literally tells them to kill children to steal their land: "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you." - Deuteronomy 20:16-17 And now they are literally doing it. I wondered how an entire ethnic group could be so depraved and removed from humanity, where literally hundreds of thousands of their members in Hebrew Telegram channels cheer on children being burned alive. And now I know that, it was always their religion that caused their depraved behavior. From a philosophy of racial superiority to literally commands to kill children to steal their land. It was always going to come to this genocidal conclusion. It's perfectly fine to say Judaism should be canceled, given how Jews are behaving publicly and without shame in their desire to steal land and kill children. They literally don't know that they're not supposed to steal land and kill children. They believe that's completely fine.
threatofrain 1y ago
By now Gaza has been so destroyed that it has become a nation of children. About 40% of people there are age 14.
n1b0m 1y ago
From the start of Israel’s assault on Gaza, the vast majority of Israelis haven’t shown any concern about the suffering in Gaza. Those who campaign for an end to the war do so purely as a means to secure the release of the hostages.
- Bilal_io 1y ago
  The civilians even blocked aid entering Gaza.
- FridayoLeary 1y ago
  That's not surprising. They remember the scenes of ecstatic celebration on the streets of Gaza and the West Bank on october 7. And the fact is that the people of Gaza could end the conflict whenever they want. All they need to do is surrender and hand over the hostages. You might think i'm oversimplifying but actually that's really it.
  - Aeolun 1y ago
    > All they need to do is surrender and hand over the hostages. You might think i'm oversimplifying but actually that's really it. “The people of Gaza” have about as much chance of doing this as the ICC has of arresting and putting Netanyahu on trial.
    - FridayoLeary 1y ago
      Maybe maybe not but i see no major movement in Gaza towards surrendering. Of course seeing how the UN and most media outlets are working so well to supress any anti hamas narratives in Gaza (it's either that, or everyone in Gaza supports hamas, an absurd suggestion but one which would ironically fully vindicate Israel. The dishonesty of the UN upsets me) , even if there was we would be unlikely to hear about it.
      - mandmandam 1y ago
        > Of course seeing how the UN and most media outlets are working so well to supress any anti hamas narratives in Gaza ... You have evidence of this? Or, are you making things up without any evidence at all to smear the UN; as we've seen Israel do countless times during this holocaust?
i_love_retros 1y ago
There is strong support within Israel for the genocide of Palestinians. Unfortunately religious zionism isn't limited to Jews. Christian evangelicals also support it, and they make up a huge percentage of voting americans (and even worse, elected officials). https://theconversation.com/in-israel-calls-for-genocide-have-migrated-from-the-margins-to-the-mainstream-250010 https://theconversation.com/in-israel-calls-for-genocide-hav... https://theconversation.com/christian-zionism-hasnt-always-been-a-conservative-evangelical-creed-churches-views-of-israel-have-evolved-over-decades-249314 https://theconversation.com/christian-zionism-hasnt-always-b...
beardedwizard 1y ago
What are you actually expecting an average Israeli who does not agree with this to do? This comment strikes me as wild considering the exact same thing is playing out in America right now, and a bunch of people are making up their minds about "Americans" and what they stand for. The same has been true for Iran, only up until now (and probably still) we have always had a more nuanced discussion - its the Iranian government, not the people of Iran. Come on, the government of many countries does not necessarily represent the people.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  > What are you actually expecting an average Israeli who does not agree with this to do? Funny you say this because you don’t have to look far for people saying that “Gazans deserve what’s happening” because the average Gazan should fight back against Hamas.
  - beardedwizard 1y ago
    The same thing has been said generally about Muslims and Islamic terror organizations. Well anyway, it is still crazy to me that somebody is making a decision about the entire population of a country based on the governments actions in 2025.
  - atmavatar 1y ago
    Some things to consider: * The majority of the Palestinian population are minors (< 18) * The last nationwide election in Palestine was 2006 In other words, the last time an election was held, the majority of Palestinians weren't yet born, let alone old enough to vote in it. So, it's difficult to hold the Palestinian people en masse responsible for Hamas in the same way we'd hold Israelis responsible for their current government, who held their last election in 2022.
- keutoi 1y ago
  Israel is supposed to be a democratic state. If the average Israeli disagrees with this they can speak up. The only voices we are hearing now are those who support it's current activities. Those who oppose are fewer and quieter.
ponector 1y ago
And you can think the same way about russians. They support all horrors russian people do to Ukrainian cities. And many are trying to earn some extra cash out of it.
- enlightenedfool 1y ago
  No different how Americans are brain washed that they are supporting a noble goal democracy at whatever cost around the world
  - ponector 1y ago
    Are they brainwashed? Are they really supporting? In 2025 USA is supporting russian dictator more than Ukrainian democratic government.
    - Jensson 1y ago
      > In 2025 USA is supporting russian dictator more than Ukrainian democratic government. Are they? I see USA still supplying Ukraine with weapons, how many weapons have Russia gotten from USA? None, USA is not selling any weapons to Russia still.
petra 1y ago
[flagged]
- StochasticLi 1y ago
  What do you think is a proper solution? 30% being pro genocide is insane.
  - petra 1y ago
    A proper solution ? I have ideas, but their value is mostly in making me sound smart. In reality I don't have realistic, implementable ideas on how to get out of this mess. Just wishes.
tdeck 1y ago
Almost half of Jewish Israelis polled said they supported killing everyone in Gaza. https://archive.is/nNzq4 https://archive.is/nNzq4 About 80 percent supported ethnic cleansing of Gaza. I don't think it's just propaganda. These folks know they'll materially benefit from Palestinians being dispossessed of their remaining land.
ckemere 1y ago
I upvoted this article because it reminds me that there are Israelis who are opposed to what is going on. And newspapers that take risk to report on it. And maybe even military investigators trying to stop it. It’s no different with the American military.
grafmax 1y ago
> if the Israeli people really wanted anything different, it was their human duty and utmost responsibility to stop this by now It’s wrong to single out Israel. The US is funding this mass murder of children and blocking attempts to stop it. It should correctly be called the US-Israeli genocide of Gaza. For my part, as an American and a nobody, I feel helpless to stop the atrocities my government is participating in. But I’ve found, for myself, the reason to fight the genocide - however I can - isn’t because I expect to stop it. I am powerless to do that. For me it’s to maintain a sense of human dignity in the face of evil. Knowing my country’s role in the mass murder of children, shrugging my shoulders would feel like I’m surrendering something precious.
AtlasBarfed 1y ago
[flagged]
YZF 1y ago
[flagged]
modzu 1y ago
[flagged]
drysine 1y ago
>it was their human duty and utmost responsibility to stop this Do you apply the same standard to Palestinians for not overthrowing Hamas, to Americans for the US being the key enabler of Israel's military operations, to the citizens of any Western country for not adding Israel next to Russia in all their sanction laws? If not, why? Or maybe we should be careful with assigning collective guilt and not throw stones in glass house?

xg15 1y ago

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood experience terror attacks themselves. That this upbringing doesn't exactly make you want to engage with the other side is psychologically understandable. (I'm imaging this as the universal experience of all Jewish Israelis, religious or secular, left or right. I'm excluding the religious and Zionist-ideological angles here, because those are a whole different matter once again) What I absolutely cannot understand is the behavior of our states. We're pretending to be neutral mediators who want nothing more than to end the conflict, yet in reality, we're doing everything to keep the conflict going. We're fully subscribed to Zionist narrative of an exclusive Israeli right to the land (the justifications ranging from ostensibly antifascist to openly religious) and we're even throwing our own values about universal human rights and national sovereignty under the bus to follow the narrative. If the messianic and dehumanizing tendencies of Israelis are answered by nothing else than full support and encouragement of their allies, I don't find it exactly surprising that they will grow.

IG_Semmelweiss 1y ago
I dont disagree with anything you said, but isn't that the role of elected leaders ? Actually making the difficult decisions that may be unpopular, but necessary ? Or is it the leader class in most western countries have no sense of duty , are effectively cowards, and are in it just to have a profitable, white-collar career ?
- hidingfearful 1y ago
  > Or is it the leader class in most western countries have no sense of duty , are effectively cowards, and are in it just to have a profitable, white-collar career ? They are cowards who are just in it to enrich themselves by bribery, theft, and extortion. You are looking in the right direction and not seeing just how far our society has gone.
  - rixed 1y ago
    And they may even find it comforting that it's OK to bomb innocent civilians for years because that's the only solution they can think of to deal with their own dissatisfied populace ultimately, when things will predictably get worse in Europe as well...? It's not Russia or terrorism they are afraid of.
- awkwardpotato 1y ago
  > Actually making the difficult decisions that may be unpopular, but necessary ? What is the unpopular, necessary decision? GP is commenting on the US/EUs continual campaigns to arm and fund Israel's efforts in Gaza without pushback. I don't wish to misinterpret you, but this read to me, that funding/aiding human rights violations and genocide in Gaza is a "necessary" act.
- dmix 1y ago
  It's a bunch of >60yr old western leaders who had 40yrs of seeing violence and terrorism in Israel and Palestine, and every couple years a naive western leader announces they want to fix it, while nothing changes. People are just numb to the whole area. The most difficult part is the fact Israel is wealthy and aggressive while (both) Palestine government has been the definition of dysfunction and tribalism for decades, even during peace times. Diplomatic solutions have became harder and harder since the 90s. You can read the history the political bodies in West Bank and even they seem to not care to fix anything either. They have their own leadership issues (like never electing new leaders). There’s a major gap between a western savior wanting something bad to stop and actually going there and accomplishing something.

7sigma 1y ago

This point of view whitewashes a lot of the history. Israel has been doing horrible things since its founding to Palestinians, starting with the Nakba in 1948 which was an ethnic cleaning campaign to create an ethno state. Many massacres occurred like in Deir Yassin in 1948 and continued with other massacres like in Kahn Younis in 1956 where they lined up more than 200 men over 15 and executed them against the wall. With the continued persecution of Palestinians, whether its the illegal occupation of the west bank or the siege of Gaza which was essentially a concentration camp, that was "mowed" like grass every few years in terrorist bombing campaigns by Israel, its no surprise that organisations like Hamas, originally a humanitarian charity, exist. Israelis want peace through domination, just like the French in Algeria. Be aware that Jews are not native to Palestine, except those that had been living there before the state was founded. They are living as colonialists on stolen land, and are continually denying the native Palestinians the right to return, which is part of the definition ethnic cleansing. I say this as Jewish person originally born in Palestine (or Israel) and who had grandparents that survivide the Holocaust. Once I read about what really happened in 1948, that it was zionist terrorist militias that started the conflict and that Palestinians did not "simply leave", I became an anti zionist. I don't think Israel has the right to exist. People have the right to exist and they have the right to fight back against jewish supremacism.

ost-ing 1y ago
> Be aware that Jews are not native to Palestine, except those that had been living there before the state was founded. Not true, many Semitic Jews who fled from those lands due to persecution went to Europe and North Africa, that includes Ashkenazi and Sephardim Jews. The difficulty I have with your statement is akin to denying a white, blue eyed aboriginal in Australia their heritage to the land just because one of their ancestors slept with a European colonialist - its fundamentally racist. White skinned blue eyed Australian aboriginals exist.
- prmoustache 1y ago
  Palestinians are genetically closer to the jews that populated those lands centuries ago. The reality is palestinians ancestors were mostly jews who decided to convert to islam. Denying their rights to continue living there is absurd. The state of Israel is just another example of euro white colonialism.

wat10000 1y ago

I’m becoming very skeptical of the “bad government, good people” idea. Governments need popular support. This goes even for horrible dictatorships. There are degrees, of course. An oppressive state can survive with less popular support than a democracy. But it still needs a decent amount. The machinery of dictatorship is as much about keeping popular support as it is about forcing people to suppress their opposition.

barbazoo 1y ago
These people are manipulated by the media and by their government and by their spiritual leaders.
- wat10000 1y ago
  Could be, but that doesn’t really matter in the end. Support is support.
  - anton-c 1y ago
    You were judging the morality of the people in your above comment. Being manipulated into giving support doesn't make the people bad.
    - wat10000 1y ago
      At some point people have to be responsible for themselves if the concept of responsibility is to have any meaning at all. Our views and actions are all the product of our environment.
      - anton-c 1y ago
        > Our views and actions are all the product of our environment. And if that view is manipulated by people way more powerful than you... I'm all for personal responsibility but we have laws against certain practices because companies can hack brains so well. You don't think states can do it just as well if not better?

Newtonip 1y ago

It's a state founded on ethnic cleansing. People were already living there when settlers came to create an ethno-state for themselves. In late 1947, their militias begun a campaign of massacring and expelling Palestinians from mostly defenseless villages. These refuges pouring into neighboring Arab countries is what prompted the 1948 war. When the war ended, they murdered any civilians trying to return to their homes. Gaza was originally a refugee camp created for receiving these expelled people. The ethnic cleansing and denial of rights has continued ever since. The current Gaza war is not when the crimes against humanity started. Israel has been commiting crimes against humanity throughout its entire existence.

avip 1y ago
Many states were "founded on ethnic cleansing". They are widely considered to posses a right of existence, and even expected to defend their citizens. (excuse me for ignoring the history trolling)
- breakyerself 1y ago
  A right to exist doesn't justify a million other things that are completely unacceptable about the Israeli state.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - polynomial 1y ago
      It's a popular opinion these days, all the cool kids are doing it
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > It's a popular opinion these days Westerners with no connection to the Middle East deciding they know best for the people actually there has been a popular opinion for a long time.

nashashmi 1y ago

I would put myself in the timeframe of the Holocaust era. Germans were next to the concentration camps and they did nothing. Germans were conditioned to support nationalism. And they trusted the nationalist party (known as nazionale Party). The Germans had convinced themselves that the Jews were different people. (And the Jews had earned much infamy during the time when Germany was suffering economically.) Today, we see Israelis who are taught to perceive Palestinians as enemies. They see the Palestinian flag during birthrights and are taught by the IDF to hate it. And they are also taught that the west bank is dangerous and they are not to go there. Then we see IDF operations in West Bank and we see silence. We know Gaza is in a plight caused by Israel and we see silence and ignorance. Israel is bad. Israelis are bad too. And the polls have shown that 80% wish for Gaza to be cleansed, 56% support the forced expulsion of Arab citizens of Israel, 47% want the IDF to act according to the Biblical war against Jericho. That is effectively 47% want murder while 33% want expulsion (equivalent of the ghettos+concentration camps). The benefit of doubt is disappearing rapidly fast. And the west has been supporting Israel for decades in this campaign. This is the second millenial crusade of Europe (aka the west).

barbazoo 1y ago

Brainwashing by the government, religion, the media, schools, etc is what I suspect based on documentaries I watched. It’s heartbreaking what people can be made to think and say. I feel bad for the citizens of Israel to have become detached so much from humanity.

vFunct 1y ago

[flagged]

stormfather 1y ago
Netanyahu, when addressing the troops, even said "Do not forget what Amalek has done to you", invoking the memory of the biblical commandment to genocide the Amalekites.
- vFunct 1y ago
  Reposting as it was flagged by Zionists: You don't have to have sympathy for them. Their religion literally tells them to kill children to steal their land: "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you." - Deuteronomy 20:16-17 And now they are literally doing it. I wondered how an entire ethnic group could be so depraved and removed from humanity, where literally hundreds of thousands of their members in Hebrew Telegram channels cheer on children being burned alive. And now I know that, it was always their religion that caused their depraved behavior. From a philosophy of racial superiority to literally commands to kill children to steal their land. It was always going to come to this genocidal conclusion. It's perfectly fine to say Judaism should be canceled, given how Jews are behaving publicly and without shame in their desire to steal land and kill children. They literally don't know that they're not supposed to steal land and kill children. They believe that's completely fine.

threatofrain 1y ago

By now Gaza has been so destroyed that it has become a nation of children. About 40% of people there are age 14.

n1b0m 1y ago

From the start of Israel’s assault on Gaza, the vast majority of Israelis haven’t shown any concern about the suffering in Gaza. Those who campaign for an end to the war do so purely as a means to secure the release of the hostages.

Bilal_io 1y ago
The civilians even blocked aid entering Gaza.
FridayoLeary 1y ago
That's not surprising. They remember the scenes of ecstatic celebration on the streets of Gaza and the West Bank on october 7. And the fact is that the people of Gaza could end the conflict whenever they want. All they need to do is surrender and hand over the hostages. You might think i'm oversimplifying but actually that's really it.
- Aeolun 1y ago
  > All they need to do is surrender and hand over the hostages. You might think i'm oversimplifying but actually that's really it. “The people of Gaza” have about as much chance of doing this as the ICC has of arresting and putting Netanyahu on trial.
  - FridayoLeary 1y ago
    Maybe maybe not but i see no major movement in Gaza towards surrendering. Of course seeing how the UN and most media outlets are working so well to supress any anti hamas narratives in Gaza (it's either that, or everyone in Gaza supports hamas, an absurd suggestion but one which would ironically fully vindicate Israel. The dishonesty of the UN upsets me) , even if there was we would be unlikely to hear about it.
    - mandmandam 1y ago
      > Of course seeing how the UN and most media outlets are working so well to supress any anti hamas narratives in Gaza ... You have evidence of this? Or, are you making things up without any evidence at all to smear the UN; as we've seen Israel do countless times during this holocaust?

i_love_retros 1y ago

There is strong support within Israel for the genocide of Palestinians. Unfortunately religious zionism isn't limited to Jews. Christian evangelicals also support it, and they make up a huge percentage of voting americans (and even worse, elected officials). https://theconversation.com/in-israel-calls-for-genocide-have-migrated-from-the-margins-to-the-mainstream-250010 https://theconversation.com/in-israel-calls-for-genocide-hav... https://theconversation.com/christian-zionism-hasnt-always-been-a-conservative-evangelical-creed-churches-views-of-israel-have-evolved-over-decades-249314 https://theconversation.com/christian-zionism-hasnt-always-b...

beardedwizard 1y ago

What are you actually expecting an average Israeli who does not agree with this to do? This comment strikes me as wild considering the exact same thing is playing out in America right now, and a bunch of people are making up their minds about "Americans" and what they stand for. The same has been true for Iran, only up until now (and probably still) we have always had a more nuanced discussion - its the Iranian government, not the people of Iran. Come on, the government of many countries does not necessarily represent the people.

FireBeyond 1y ago
> What are you actually expecting an average Israeli who does not agree with this to do? Funny you say this because you don’t have to look far for people saying that “Gazans deserve what’s happening” because the average Gazan should fight back against Hamas.
- beardedwizard 1y ago
  The same thing has been said generally about Muslims and Islamic terror organizations. Well anyway, it is still crazy to me that somebody is making a decision about the entire population of a country based on the governments actions in 2025.
- atmavatar 1y ago
  Some things to consider: * The majority of the Palestinian population are minors (< 18) * The last nationwide election in Palestine was 2006 In other words, the last time an election was held, the majority of Palestinians weren't yet born, let alone old enough to vote in it. So, it's difficult to hold the Palestinian people en masse responsible for Hamas in the same way we'd hold Israelis responsible for their current government, who held their last election in 2022.
keutoi 1y ago
Israel is supposed to be a democratic state. If the average Israeli disagrees with this they can speak up. The only voices we are hearing now are those who support it's current activities. Those who oppose are fewer and quieter.

ponector 1y ago

And you can think the same way about russians. They support all horrors russian people do to Ukrainian cities. And many are trying to earn some extra cash out of it.

enlightenedfool 1y ago
No different how Americans are brain washed that they are supporting a noble goal democracy at whatever cost around the world
- ponector 1y ago
  Are they brainwashed? Are they really supporting? In 2025 USA is supporting russian dictator more than Ukrainian democratic government.
  - Jensson 1y ago
    > In 2025 USA is supporting russian dictator more than Ukrainian democratic government. Are they? I see USA still supplying Ukraine with weapons, how many weapons have Russia gotten from USA? None, USA is not selling any weapons to Russia still.

petra 1y ago

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StochasticLi 1y ago
What do you think is a proper solution? 30% being pro genocide is insane.
- petra 1y ago
  A proper solution ? I have ideas, but their value is mostly in making me sound smart. In reality I don't have realistic, implementable ideas on how to get out of this mess. Just wishes.

tdeck 1y ago

Almost half of Jewish Israelis polled said they supported killing everyone in Gaza. https://archive.is/nNzq4 https://archive.is/nNzq4 About 80 percent supported ethnic cleansing of Gaza. I don't think it's just propaganda. These folks know they'll materially benefit from Palestinians being dispossessed of their remaining land.

ckemere 1y ago

I upvoted this article because it reminds me that there are Israelis who are opposed to what is going on. And newspapers that take risk to report on it. And maybe even military investigators trying to stop it. It’s no different with the American military.

grafmax 1y ago

> if the Israeli people really wanted anything different, it was their human duty and utmost responsibility to stop this by now It’s wrong to single out Israel. The US is funding this mass murder of children and blocking attempts to stop it. It should correctly be called the US-Israeli genocide of Gaza. For my part, as an American and a nobody, I feel helpless to stop the atrocities my government is participating in. But I’ve found, for myself, the reason to fight the genocide - however I can - isn’t because I expect to stop it. I am powerless to do that. For me it’s to maintain a sense of human dignity in the face of evil. Knowing my country’s role in the mass murder of children, shrugging my shoulders would feel like I’m surrendering something precious.

AtlasBarfed 1y ago

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YZF 1y ago

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modzu 1y ago

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drysine 1y ago

>it was their human duty and utmost responsibility to stop this Do you apply the same standard to Palestinians for not overthrowing Hamas, to Americans for the US being the key enabler of Israel's military operations, to the citizens of any Western country for not adding Israel next to Russia in all their sanction laws? If not, why? Or maybe we should be careful with assigning collective guilt and not throw stones in glass house?