4 ms·

The alternative way to look at it is that early adopters get the volume up such that the price comes down to where more people can afford it?

ta988 1y ago
This doesn't solve the issue of either storage or continous (and controllable) supply.
Dylan16807 1y ago
Solar panels are already so cheap that household solar is mostly about the installation price. And more people affording their own panels is still a lot more expensive than fixing the grid.
- closewith 1y ago
  But batteries aren't, and batteries are both the key technology for load shifting and the biggest expense in modern installations.
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    5kWh of batteries is under $1000. That's enough for load shifting for most people. Even if you need several of them, that's still going to be cheaper than installation labor.
    - eldaisfish 1y ago
      where are you buying 5 kWH of batteries for under $ 1,000? The typical 5 kWh battery in Canada is C$ 3,000 - 4,000.
      - the_pwner224 1y ago
        https://signaturesolar.com/all-products/batteries/?_bc_fsnf=1&brand=66 https://signaturesolar.com/all-products/batteries/?_bc_fsnf=... Server rack style, 1200 USD for 4.8 kWh = $250/kWh. Wall-mount, 14.3 kWh for $3.3k = $231/kWh. These guys seem to be the biggest DIY solar equipment supplier in the US. Afaik you can get batteries from China (AliExpress) for quite a bit cheaper too.
        djrj477dhsnv 1y ago
        Yep I bought several Huawei 4.8 kWh batteries for about $450 each for an off-grid house in SE Asia. They've been working great a year later, running AC throughout the night.
    - djrj477dhsnv 1y ago
      That really depends on where you live. I set up the batteries and inverter myself, but paid a local installer and his 2 helpers a grand total of $45 to install and ground 10 x 600w panels on my dangerously high metal roof.
numpad0 1y ago
Solar output is also proportionate to area of sunlight projection. This means the theoretical capacity available to you is proportionate to real estate, area of planetary surface, under your ownership.
- lukan 1y ago
  And the area you own is theoretical proportionate to your avaibale money. So yes, rich people can obviously have more of it all, like with everything else that money can buy. But is this really a point worth going in deeper here? I see the point as in "solar power plus battery is good", creates resillence, please more of it. Unfair distribution of wealth is a different problem. And here concreteley the article lacks for me details, what exactly the work on the grid means, if it is really about fossils vs solar, but microgrids that can connect to each other sounds like a pragmatic solution to me.
  - bluefirebrand 1y ago
    > Unfair distribution of wealth is a different problem Unfortunately, all problems are eventually going to come down to this. Or many problems are, if not "all" We can't fix a lot of the problems facing our society and our planet with "only wealthy can afford this" solutions
    - lukan 1y ago
      "We can't fix a lot of the problems facing our society and our planet with "only wealthy can afford this" solutions" And I think, we can't fix a lot of technical problems if we make everything about money distribution. Besides, solar plus battery became really cheap. And get cheaper every day. And this work to connect such microgrids is potentially beneficial for poor areas all around the world. But no, it doesn't solve the issue of extreme poverty, but why would it?
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    Microgrids at that size are the most expensive way to get resilience. If they're pragmatic for many people then something has failed and we should work to fix it. Bigger ones have a better tradeoffs, so I'm not so harsh on towns having their own grids. Still unsure whether it's a good use of funds.

ta988 1y ago

This doesn't solve the issue of either storage or continous (and controllable) supply.

Dylan16807 1y ago

Solar panels are already so cheap that household solar is mostly about the installation price. And more people affording their own panels is still a lot more expensive than fixing the grid.

closewith 1y ago
But batteries aren't, and batteries are both the key technology for load shifting and the biggest expense in modern installations.
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  5kWh of batteries is under $1000. That's enough for load shifting for most people. Even if you need several of them, that's still going to be cheaper than installation labor.
  - eldaisfish 1y ago
    where are you buying 5 kWH of batteries for under $ 1,000? The typical 5 kWh battery in Canada is C$ 3,000 - 4,000.
    - the_pwner224 1y ago
      https://signaturesolar.com/all-products/batteries/?_bc_fsnf=1&brand=66 https://signaturesolar.com/all-products/batteries/?_bc_fsnf=... Server rack style, 1200 USD for 4.8 kWh = $250/kWh. Wall-mount, 14.3 kWh for $3.3k = $231/kWh. These guys seem to be the biggest DIY solar equipment supplier in the US. Afaik you can get batteries from China (AliExpress) for quite a bit cheaper too.
      - djrj477dhsnv 1y ago
        Yep I bought several Huawei 4.8 kWh batteries for about $450 each for an off-grid house in SE Asia. They've been working great a year later, running AC throughout the night.
  - djrj477dhsnv 1y ago
    That really depends on where you live. I set up the batteries and inverter myself, but paid a local installer and his 2 helpers a grand total of $45 to install and ground 10 x 600w panels on my dangerously high metal roof.

numpad0 1y ago

Solar output is also proportionate to area of sunlight projection. This means the theoretical capacity available to you is proportionate to real estate, area of planetary surface, under your ownership.

lukan 1y ago
And the area you own is theoretical proportionate to your avaibale money. So yes, rich people can obviously have more of it all, like with everything else that money can buy. But is this really a point worth going in deeper here? I see the point as in "solar power plus battery is good", creates resillence, please more of it. Unfair distribution of wealth is a different problem. And here concreteley the article lacks for me details, what exactly the work on the grid means, if it is really about fossils vs solar, but microgrids that can connect to each other sounds like a pragmatic solution to me.
- bluefirebrand 1y ago
  > Unfair distribution of wealth is a different problem Unfortunately, all problems are eventually going to come down to this. Or many problems are, if not "all" We can't fix a lot of the problems facing our society and our planet with "only wealthy can afford this" solutions
  - lukan 1y ago
    "We can't fix a lot of the problems facing our society and our planet with "only wealthy can afford this" solutions" And I think, we can't fix a lot of technical problems if we make everything about money distribution. Besides, solar plus battery became really cheap. And get cheaper every day. And this work to connect such microgrids is potentially beneficial for poor areas all around the world. But no, it doesn't solve the issue of extreme poverty, but why would it?
- Dylan16807 1y ago
  Microgrids at that size are the most expensive way to get resilience. If they're pragmatic for many people then something has failed and we should work to fix it. Bigger ones have a better tradeoffs, so I'm not so harsh on towns having their own grids. Still unsure whether it's a good use of funds.