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A liberal Israeli friend has told me on a few occasions that Iran is one of the safest places in the Middle East for Christians and Jews to live, work, and rais

A liberal Israeli friend has told me on a few occasions that Iran is one of the safest places in the Middle East for Christians and Jews to live, work, and raise families as long as they don’t publicly protest against the Iranian government. I have no way of knowing if my friend is correct about this, but with the conflicting news broadcasts in the USA the situation is as confusing as hell. Off topic, but I have started finding news shows on the Internet from different countries like Singapore to try to figure out some semblance of truth about the world.

gspencley 1y ago
One way to get some insight into this is to look at the demographic break down of Iran pre and post 1979 revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iran#Religious_affiliations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iran#Religious... Pre-1979, per the 1976 census, Iran had a Jewish population of 62,258 (0.2%). Post-revolution it immediately fell to ~9k, where it has remained - at least until the last census in 2016 (0.0% representation). While Christian representation didn't decline by the same amount, it took a sharp decline as well. Pre revolution (1976) saw a Christian representation of around 0.5%. 30 years later (2006 census) it was 0.2%. What conclusions you should draw from that are open to interpretation... and when it comes to life in the Middle East and North Africa, you can also draw relative comparisons (is Iran worse or better for these groups?). But it's usually not a good sign when the population of an ethic or religious minority takes a sharp and sudden decline.
- throw310822 1y ago
  In the case of the Jewish population, Israel is relatively close, with a comparatively higher standard of living and free entry, and there is a strong incentive for Jews to emigrate there even in the absence of hostility or outside pressure.
  - nivertech 1y ago
    It’s not close - Israel is an island, you can’t drive or fly from Iran to Israel … yet The Iranian Jews had to immigrate via another countries, I guess via Europe. Also boys had first to serve in the army to earn right to travel outside Iranian borders
nivertech 1y ago
> Iran is one of the safest places in the Middle East for Christians and Jews to live, work, and raise families It is only somewhat safe for token minorities, tiny pockets of remaining Jews, native Christians: Armenians and Assyrians, but not Parsis (Persians who escaped Islamization) or Mandeans (an ancient gnostic sect) Non-native Christians (i.e. Iranians who converted to Christianity) are severely persecuted. Same for various heterodox sects / offshoots of Islam like Baháʼís, Ismailis, Ahmadis, Yazidis, Shabakis, Yarasanis, etc. Large non-token minorities (like Azeris, Kurds, Balochi, Arabs) are persecuted. Non Shias are unable to get a government jobs. According to some demographic estimations Persians per se are a minority in Iran, which would make it an apartheid state Gays are forced to undergo gender reassignment surgeries Women … > A liberal *Israeli* friend told me several times that Iran ____ Thinking critically, what makes your so-called "liberal" Israeli friend an authority on Iran? Are they a recent Jewish immigrant from Iran? Do they speak Farsi? Are they an academic researching Iran? Do they serve in military intelligence or the Mossad (or not-Mossad)?
tim333 1y ago
I travelled in Iran a bit. I'd say it's pretty safe as long as you don't protest the government or contradict their religious views. My mum is a Bahai and deals with quite a lot of Iranian Bahais who get imprisoned, killed etc for believing in the wrong version of god. Bahaism is kind of an offshoot of islam and are generally more tolerant and less violent so they get killed as heretics by the lovely islamists.
EvgeniyZh 1y ago
Iran has official discrimination against both ethnic and religious minorities. On the other hand, Jews had to leave the Muslim countries both in Northern Africa and the Middle East, with the total Jewish population there shrinking from hundreds of thousands to hundreds. Compared to that, Iran, from which only 70-90% of Jews left, looks not that bad. However, there were testimonies that members of Jewish families aren't allowed to leave the country all together, so I'm not sure if everyone is staying there at will.
bearjaws 1y ago
That is an absurd take. Your friend's statement, that religious minorities in Iran are safe as long as they don't protest, is basically like a situation of domestic abuse. An abuser might claim their partner is free and happy, as long as they follow the rules and don't speak out. The home may appear peaceful to outsiders, but this "peace" is maintained through fear, control, and the constant threat of violence for any perceived transgression.
- hkpack 1y ago
  > The home may appear peaceful to outsiders, but this "peace" is maintained through fear, control, and the constant threat of violence for any perceived transgression Isn’t it exactly like the present day USA? Where ethnic minorities can be taken out by masked militia and disappear in a concentration camp without any due process for any reason?
  - kyrra 1y ago
    Can you give some context here? You are saying something pretty wild.
    - shepherdjerred 1y ago
      I think they're referring to ICE
    - Eextra953 1y ago
      Look up the situation in Los Angeles, where a mix of ICE agents and masked unmarked men are targeting Hispanic neighborhoods and taking anyone they believe isn't a citizen (brown). There's been several cases of citizens being taken and detained for weeks. Recently, there's been videos of these men roaming in cars with license plates removed. These men refuse to identify themselves. Its an extremely alarming situation which has, at least in my feeds, not received nearly enough attention.
    - righthand 1y ago
      No it’s not: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil
bamboozled 1y ago
As long they’re not women who don’t want to cover their head in rags , they’ll be fine ?
foobarian 1y ago
> one of the safest places in the Middle East Added emphasis
mathgradthrow 1y ago
it seems to be a pretty safe place to be mossad.
frollogaston 1y ago
As with most religious minorities in the Mid East, this protection is conditional and can also go away on its own at any time. Same kinda goes for Israel but at least it's more stable.
gosub100 1y ago
as long as they dont get raped, or refuse to wear their hijab
nickpsecurity 1y ago
I know a missionary that serves Iranians. The country is so hostile to Christians that the main, missions strategy is to reach Iranians outside of Iran. Then, they go back in and maybe talk to their own people. Eventually, they get ejected or something worse happens to them, too. There's always a narrow window where people can hear or share the Gospel. Then, discipleship in a high-persecution regime is usually done in secret churches whose meetings are even more difficult. Under such regimes, the hope is that a sprinkle of people here and there come to know Christ. They immediately have eternal life with forgiveness of sins. Over time, as they share Christ and His Word, more lives will transform as a side effect of the sanctification process. As they do, and people witness it, hearts and minds might change over time in a way that changes the whole country (or its leadership).

gspencley 1y ago

One way to get some insight into this is to look at the demographic break down of Iran pre and post 1979 revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iran#Religious_affiliations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iran#Religious... Pre-1979, per the 1976 census, Iran had a Jewish population of 62,258 (0.2%). Post-revolution it immediately fell to ~9k, where it has remained - at least until the last census in 2016 (0.0% representation). While Christian representation didn't decline by the same amount, it took a sharp decline as well. Pre revolution (1976) saw a Christian representation of around 0.5%. 30 years later (2006 census) it was 0.2%. What conclusions you should draw from that are open to interpretation... and when it comes to life in the Middle East and North Africa, you can also draw relative comparisons (is Iran worse or better for these groups?). But it's usually not a good sign when the population of an ethic or religious minority takes a sharp and sudden decline.

throw310822 1y ago
In the case of the Jewish population, Israel is relatively close, with a comparatively higher standard of living and free entry, and there is a strong incentive for Jews to emigrate there even in the absence of hostility or outside pressure.
- nivertech 1y ago
  It’s not close - Israel is an island, you can’t drive or fly from Iran to Israel … yet The Iranian Jews had to immigrate via another countries, I guess via Europe. Also boys had first to serve in the army to earn right to travel outside Iranian borders

nivertech 1y ago

> Iran is one of the safest places in the Middle East for Christians and Jews to live, work, and raise families It is only somewhat safe for token minorities, tiny pockets of remaining Jews, native Christians: Armenians and Assyrians, but not Parsis (Persians who escaped Islamization) or Mandeans (an ancient gnostic sect) Non-native Christians (i.e. Iranians who converted to Christianity) are severely persecuted. Same for various heterodox sects / offshoots of Islam like Baháʼís, Ismailis, Ahmadis, Yazidis, Shabakis, Yarasanis, etc. Large non-token minorities (like Azeris, Kurds, Balochi, Arabs) are persecuted. Non Shias are unable to get a government jobs. According to some demographic estimations Persians per se are a minority in Iran, which would make it an apartheid state Gays are forced to undergo gender reassignment surgeries Women … > A liberal *Israeli* friend told me several times that Iran ____ Thinking critically, what makes your so-called "liberal" Israeli friend an authority on Iran? Are they a recent Jewish immigrant from Iran? Do they speak Farsi? Are they an academic researching Iran? Do they serve in military intelligence or the Mossad (or not-Mossad)?

tim333 1y ago

I travelled in Iran a bit. I'd say it's pretty safe as long as you don't protest the government or contradict their religious views. My mum is a Bahai and deals with quite a lot of Iranian Bahais who get imprisoned, killed etc for believing in the wrong version of god. Bahaism is kind of an offshoot of islam and are generally more tolerant and less violent so they get killed as heretics by the lovely islamists.

EvgeniyZh 1y ago

Iran has official discrimination against both ethnic and religious minorities. On the other hand, Jews had to leave the Muslim countries both in Northern Africa and the Middle East, with the total Jewish population there shrinking from hundreds of thousands to hundreds. Compared to that, Iran, from which only 70-90% of Jews left, looks not that bad. However, there were testimonies that members of Jewish families aren't allowed to leave the country all together, so I'm not sure if everyone is staying there at will.

bearjaws 1y ago

That is an absurd take. Your friend's statement, that religious minorities in Iran are safe as long as they don't protest, is basically like a situation of domestic abuse. An abuser might claim their partner is free and happy, as long as they follow the rules and don't speak out. The home may appear peaceful to outsiders, but this "peace" is maintained through fear, control, and the constant threat of violence for any perceived transgression.

hkpack 1y ago
> The home may appear peaceful to outsiders, but this "peace" is maintained through fear, control, and the constant threat of violence for any perceived transgression Isn’t it exactly like the present day USA? Where ethnic minorities can be taken out by masked militia and disappear in a concentration camp without any due process for any reason?
- kyrra 1y ago
  Can you give some context here? You are saying something pretty wild.
  - shepherdjerred 1y ago
    I think they're referring to ICE
  - Eextra953 1y ago
    Look up the situation in Los Angeles, where a mix of ICE agents and masked unmarked men are targeting Hispanic neighborhoods and taking anyone they believe isn't a citizen (brown). There's been several cases of citizens being taken and detained for weeks. Recently, there's been videos of these men roaming in cars with license plates removed. These men refuse to identify themselves. Its an extremely alarming situation which has, at least in my feeds, not received nearly enough attention.
  - righthand 1y ago
    No it’s not: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil

bamboozled 1y ago

As long they’re not women who don’t want to cover their head in rags , they’ll be fine ?

foobarian 1y ago

> one of the safest places in the Middle East Added emphasis

mathgradthrow 1y ago

it seems to be a pretty safe place to be mossad.

frollogaston 1y ago

As with most religious minorities in the Mid East, this protection is conditional and can also go away on its own at any time. Same kinda goes for Israel but at least it's more stable.

gosub100 1y ago

as long as they dont get raped, or refuse to wear their hijab

nickpsecurity 1y ago

I know a missionary that serves Iranians. The country is so hostile to Christians that the main, missions strategy is to reach Iranians outside of Iran. Then, they go back in and maybe talk to their own people. Eventually, they get ejected or something worse happens to them, too. There's always a narrow window where people can hear or share the Gospel. Then, discipleship in a high-persecution regime is usually done in secret churches whose meetings are even more difficult. Under such regimes, the hope is that a sprinkle of people here and there come to know Christ. They immediately have eternal life with forgiveness of sins. Over time, as they share Christ and His Word, more lives will transform as a side effect of the sanctification process. As they do, and people witness it, hearts and minds might change over time in a way that changes the whole country (or its leadership).