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Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague
- timsh 1y agonot trying to justify it even a bit, but shouldn't people in his position (actively acting against the US-supported position) use something more secure? Like proton for starters? I think most of the activists know the drill (not to use gmail/outlook/icloud... in their activism-related communications).
- makeitdouble 1y agoThey're not activists, but a 900 people intergovernmental org representing 100+ countries that needs to deal with a lot of bureaucracy efficiently. They might start spending the time and money to move away from Microsoft's control, but there's few solutions that reliably work at that scale and for their needs, and I honestly wouldn't fault them for assuming that the arrangement that worked for decades wouldn't suddenly fall apart.
- bjackman 1y agoI think that's just another side of the same coin. Until recently I'm sure people at the heart of the western political establishment saw the US as essentially trustworthy with regard to fundamental things like not stealing their emails. Just like they wouldn't have expected the executive to deny them access to the product. Now it's clear expectations need to be updated. Not great news for the US tech industry...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- mschuster91 1y ago[flagged]
- pjc50 1y agoWhat's the non-fascist actual valid complaints about the ICC?
- mschuster91 1y agoThe ICCs (and a bunch of other organizations') bias against Israel is pretty obvious no matter which side of the political aisle one stands on.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dragonwriter 1y agoThe ICC isn't biased against Israel, it just lacks the bias that the US has where it ignores and is actively complicit in Israeli crimes.
- luckylion 1y agoIt is somewhat surprising though that they did not consider indicting Khamenei, Assad, Sinwar, or Haniyeh, isn't it?
- IAmGraydon 1y agoThey were seeking indictments of both Sinwar and Haniyeh and then they were both killed.
- dragonwriter 1y ago> It is somewhat surprising though that they did not consider indicting Khamenei, Assad, Sinwar, or Haniyeh, isn't it? You might want to read who warrants were being pursued against in the first part of the Prosecutor’s statement which also announced the pursuit of warrants against various Israei officials before saying things this stunningly ignorant. https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-aa-khan-kc-applications-arrest-warrants-situation-state https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-... On the basis of evidence collected and examined by my Office, I have reasonable grounds to believe that Yahya SINWAR (Head of the Islamic Resistance Movement (“Hamas”) in the Gaza Strip), Mohammed Diab Ibrahim AL-MASRI, more commonly known as DEIF (Commander-in-Chief of the military wing of Hamas, known as the Al-Qassam Brigades), and Ismail HANIYEH (Head of Hamas Political Bureau) bear criminal responsibility for the following war crimes and crimes against humanity committed on the territory of Israel and the State of Palestine (in the Gaza strip) from at least 7 October 2023 Sinwar and Haniyeh were subsequently killed, but an arrest warrant was issued for Al-Masri the same day as the warrants issued for Netanyahu and Gallant.
- modzu 1y agoabout as shocking as if a russian company did the same. if you dont get it yet, do you get it now?
- kergonath 1y agoExcept that one is an ally and presumably the leader of the free world or something like that. The other is an aggressive dictatorial kleptocracy. So yeah, just as shocking.
- gentle 1y agohttps://archive.is/QIvhV https://archive.is/QIvhV US tech dominance has long been seen as a benefit and this administration is ruining that position.
- chii 1y ago> this administration is ruining that position. this administration is ruining many things. China doesnt even have to fight to win new soft power - the US is doing it to themselves.
- jmyeet 1y agoThis administration is destroying US soft power in a way that no rival could ever have imagined possible. The big winner here is China. DOGE? Absolutely performative. Even things like USAID are a trival amount of money and miss the point that it's a very cheap way of getting influence. Plus I'm sure there's some CIA money buried in there too. Abusing the power in such a trivial manner like suspending this account does nothing but hasten this downfall. It's always worth adding that 20+ years ago the US passed a law colloquially known as the "Hage Invasion Act" [1], which not only authorized but requires the US to invade the Hage if ever any US servicemember are brought up on charges to the ICC. And this extends to servicemembers and leaders of allies. Empires don't die quietly or quickly. This is going to be long, drawn out and chaotic. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...
- dudeinjapan 1y agoIn the late 90's Microsoft suspended my email, thepimp@hotmail.com, with no warning or possibility to recover. We should view this latest ICC prosecutor suspension as part of a much larger, more sinister pattern.
- 3eb7988a1663 1y agoDo not know why this personal tragedy is so funny to me. Continue to let that fury burn.
- nickdothutton 1y agoEurope had a plan after they learned Merkel’s blackberry contents were going to Fort Meade, but they never enacted it. They planned their own MS Office (and email) replacement. Even got as far as scouting data centre sites and identifying first 40M accounts.
- snickerbockers 1y agoThe EU seems to have a problem with the whole "talk is cheap" thing. They're always making grand announcements of new initiatives like this but they hardly ever materialize.
- nickdothutton 1y agoThe EU is not a delivery organisation. They are not “do-ers”. In fact there are almost zero “do-ers” in the organisation. It’s all “talkers”.
- triknomeister 1y agoBecause they plan before implementation. They don't trust grassroot efforts in most work. While this works well for them in classically established fields, it makes them fall flat on their faces in anything that requires experimentation with scaling. Europe only has two modes: 1. Time-limited research funding (which funds basic sciences) 2. Classical "planned" funding (which funds classical industries) Both are symptoms of low-risk taking ability, the first one is bound on risk by time, the second one by planning. It doesn't have any institution that it can trust that can hand out funding which creates a bridge between the two. The real reason is that there's no EU-wide institution that has the trust and power of the EU-wide population for that purpose. And the fractured democracy is part of the reason for that.
- 6c696e7578 1y agoWhich part of Europe? There's plenty of alternatives for off the shelf, or self hosted mail. An oldie, but still good is gmx for mail.
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- fuzzy2 1y agoDo we know by now whether this was an Office 365 enterprise account or a regular "Hotmail" (Outlook.com) account?
- buyucu 1y agoThis is why my company will never, ever use any Microsoft product.
- shswkna 1y agoGet angry at Europe, not Microsoft and USA. Europeans live in a fairy land dream and need to wake up.
- bigyabai 1y agoI can perfectly well blame my home country of America for this. This is terrible business policy that destroys America's business advantages with unjustifiable federal overreach. That's an issue with America. For all American businesses.
- kspacewalk2 1y agoNo one's angry. This just gives a bigger impetus to de-Americanizing the tech stack. I've recently taken part in a decision at our university to use a non-US based cloud storage provider for some relatively sensitive health data. The risk is just too high, and justifies paying a slight premium elsewhere. Sadly we're not likely to migrate away from Office 365 over here, but for any new vendor decisions, US now definitely equals premium for risk of fuckery.
- smpretzer 1y agoWhat should we be getting angry at Europe for in this context?
- Lariscus 1y agoNot seeing this coming, I guess. IT experts where warning of this for years but where essentially ridiculed instead. I still blame the US for backstabbing their allies though.
- hermanzegerman 1y agoThe Trade Balance between the US and Europe was very balanced if you included services. So the US wasn't getting ripped off in Trade. The dumb actions by the current US Administrations give the EU a big incentive now to buy their services elsewhere in the future, so Trumps fever dream about the disbalance might come true thanks to his own actions
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- creatonez 1y agoNot surprising that the biggest tech companies are complicit in the biggest war crimes and atrocities of a generation. In the 1940s it was IBM providing holocaust tabulation machines. In the 2020s, it's companies like Microsoft providing the tech infrastructure for AI-assisted targeting and pervasive surveillance in the ongoing Gaza holocaust.
- flyinglizard 1y ago[flagged]
- siltcakes 1y agoThey aren't even able to count the number of civilians killed by Israel due to all of the hospitals in Gaza being blown up. There is no way to gauge the population (not that that would matter for the definition of genocide anyway). Israel is killing Palestinians as fast as the world will allow.
- slt2021 1y agomemri is a propaganda site, funded by the US DoS and israeli entities
- theyinwhy 1y agoAs always, it's Palantir: https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/palantir-allegedly-enables-israels-ai-targeting-amid-israels-war-in-gaza-raising-concerns-over-war-crimes/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/palantir...
- whimsicalism 1y agocan we stick with the word genocide? i don't understand the need to make constant comparisons with the holocaust - they only undermine the point in my mind and are unnecessarily incendiary. it feels to me to be a product of a certain style of left-wing oneupsmanship
- ChrisArchitect 1y agoMonth old news. Some previous discussions: Microsoft blocked the email account of Chief Prosecutor of the ICC https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44039719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44039719 Microsoft's ICC blockade: digital dependence comes at a cost https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44032717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44032717
- zombiwoof 1y agoIsrael can do no wrong apparently
- benced 1y agoPerhaps Europe should try building their own tech industry so they have fewer problems like this.
- sschueller 1y agoEurope needs to stop selling its tech industry to non-European companies.
- whimsicalism 1y agoyeah, the problem Europe faces is insufficient barriers to foreign capital.
- Quarrelsome 1y agothe EU does. US corps acquire most of our successful companies.
- Towaway69 1y agoHaving worked in the startup scene in Europe, the main exit strategy was to sell off to the American original - because most European startups were copycats of their American counterparts. So I won’t say it’s all just the US coming in and buying everything up. It was partly European investors wanting to make a profit.
- Quarrelsome 1y agosure but that's a consequence of US firms having that capital. Ultimately all investors and owners want an exit, if not as a strategy, eventually as a retirement plan. It's just that US firms buying you out is the most likely exit in this world. But the point remains that the EU also innovates. So to suggest that it doesn't and its reliance on US tech is somehow its own fault for not trying, is missing the detail.
- snickerbockers 1y agoHow on earth does the ICC plan to arrest Netanyahu or Putin? Even if one of them does make the mistake of setting foot in a compliant country, do they really think arresting a foreign head of state wouldn't be seen as an act of war?
- layer8 1y agoThe ICC doesn’t arrest anyone themselves, they issue arrest warrants. The 125 ICC signatory states are required to comply with the warrants under the Rome Statute.
- snickerbockers 1y agothat doesn't answer the question.
- layer8 1y agoThe ICC acts under the Rome Statute. Strictly speaking, it isn’t concerned about whether arrests succeed or not, that’s not its job. Its job is to investigate and (if possible) perform trials. You don’t stop investigating war crimes and bring charges just because the accused is currently unavailable. The latter may change, and has already changed in the past. Furthermore, the mere act of investigating can already put pressure on the investigated.
- snickerbockers 1y agoAre they a court or a historical society? Surely they don't operate under the premise that they will never have an opportunity to fulfill their own mandate? Netanyahu or Putin accidentally wandering into a hostile country sounds like a ludicrous scenario but if that ever happens to any signatory they are treaty-bound to arrest him and extradite him to The Hague. What's the plan for dealing with the blowback? Either the host country violates the Rome statute or they have initiated a war with a hostile, well-armed foreign entity.
- boredatoms 1y agoI cant see the Azure salespeople in EU having a good day after this
- rbc 1y agoThis clearly shows the risk of letting someone else run your email services.
- crazygringo 1y agoIt looks like Microsoft is doing everything it can to avoid repeating this in the future: > Microsoft said the decision to suspend Mr. Khan’s email had been made in consultation with the I.C.C. The company said it had since enacted policy changes that had been in the works before the episode to protect customers in similar geopolitical situations in the future. When the Trump administration sanctioned four additional I.C.C. judges this month, their email accounts were not suspended, the company said. > Microsoft and other U.S. companies have sought to reassure European customers. On Monday, Satya Nadella, Microsoft’s chief executive, visited the Netherlands and announced new “sovereign solutions” for European institutions, including legal and data security protections for “a time of geopolitical volatility.” Amazon and Google have also announced policies aimed at European customers.
- kylecazar 1y agoIn related news, the Danish government announced the switch to Linux this month, apparently to protect their sovereignty. https://politiken.dk/viden/tech/art10437680/Caroline-Stage-udfaser-Microsoft-i-Digitaliseringsministeriet https://politiken.dk/viden/tech/art10437680/Caroline-Stage-u...
- Padriac 1y agoCompletely appropriate.
- p2detar 1y agoOne more reason our on premises products and services, in the European company I work for, have a bright future.
- chillingeffect 1y agoGreat way to build up European comms business and take revenue from American companies.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- decide1000 1y agoThis is insane. They aimed his corporate account. Europeans move away from the US even faster now. This guy is literally breaking decades old relationships.
- CommanderData 1y agoYou think Europe would really behave any different? Israel is the wedge and leverage to eliminating governments of Iran, Pakistan, China and then India and weakening Russia further. Colonialism hasn't gone anywhere, evidence? Europe fully protects settlers and their ambitions despite what they say publicly. It is a long road but the most realistic one they have.
- simmerup 1y ago> You think Europe would really behave any different? And do you think America would run their government on the software of European tech monopolies?
- StochasticLi 1y agoThey run their tech and production on Chinese monopolies
- arandomusername 1y ago> Israel is the wedge and leverage to eliminating governments of Iran, Pakistan, China and then India and weakening Russia further. China and India? and Russia? Israel doesn't care about them. Israel is using America and Europe to gain control of the middle east, so they want to eliminate Iran (and just like with Iraq, they want the US to do it for them). Pakistan is somewhat friendly so not really a threat to Israel's control over the middle east. US and Europe do not benefit from this. Europe actually suffers as instability in middle east causes a refugee crisis in Europe.
- dijit 1y agoEurope probably would behave differently to be honest, but we’re so far away from either of us finding out if we’re correct or not that its not worth talking about. What we should instead focus on is digital sovereignty.
- NewJazz 1y agoThey didn't even resist/appeal the order? It is an EO, not a law. Goes to show just how subservient and feckless Microsoft is. Nominative determinism much?
- otterley 1y agoHow would fighting it serve Microsoft?
- whimsicalism 1y agothe last three administrations (Trump I, Biden, Trump II) have shown a willingness to use the law to punish the companies of political opponents. in this light, many companies are going to be reluctant to challenge the feds here
- a_bonobo 1y agoYou have a bunch of tech execs getting sworn in as lieutenant colonels for the Army Reserve, SF aligns itself with the White House just like Germany's big industry aligned itself with the NSDAP. It doesn't particularly matter whether an order is legal or not, it only matters if the ones in power want it.
- boredatoms 1y agoWhat would motivate them to join the army?
- pjc50 1y agoLike the days of the British Army selling commissions, it's for corruption opportunities and cosplay.
- vkou 1y agoFascism is the last step in the merger between the state and corporate power, the state is currently trying its best to take the country there, and the sycophants who are ready to assist it are getting in line. And if you want to close your eyes and believe things aren't that dire (they are), at minimum you have to admit that this is a regime that is incredibly blatant and open in its corruption and embrace of the spoils system. You'd have to be an utter idiot[1] to not try to weasel in to get your hand into the public purse. --- [1] Or hold on to something resembling moral principles when mountains of money and power is at stake, which in that part of the business world is a synonym.
- bigtones 1y ago>> Casper Klynge, a former Danish and European Union diplomat who worked for Microsoft, said the episode was in many ways the “smoking gun that many Europeans had been looking for.” Damn right. Strong evidence that Europe should look after their own, and not rely on the good old US of A. Written by an Australian who thinks we should do the same down here.
- conradev 1y agoThey’re working on it! And they’re making it open source :) Our goal is to offer a privacy-focused, vendor-neutral alternative to platforms like Microsoft Exchange. https://stalw.art/blog/nlnet-grant-collaboration/ https://stalw.art/blog/nlnet-grant-collaboration/
- spwa4 1y agoGreat, but look at this. This is a joke. Let's see ... the EU funded Microsoft to the tune of 234.26 billion USD per year, and have been funding it for 50 years (starting at 0 of course). How much software does the EU expect to get for "between 5000 and 50000 euro"? (one-time). A software engineer in Bangalore can expect to make more than that, even after tax! The EU got INCREDIBLY lucky after Microsoft's rise. Linux gained marketshare. Linus Torvalds and a team. So you could probably get away by paying 100x less to Linux and really make things happen. Did they do anything? Support it, say with half the money they paid to Microsoft? No. Anything at all? Perhaps, but not worth mentioning. Yes. They immediately tried to push extra expenditures on Linux. To solidify the position of Microsoft. Tried to declare Linux illegal due to supporting copyright infringement/piracy. They tried to force "software warranty". Tried to make software without accessibility features illegal. Oh wait! Linus Torvalds got paid! But ... by a US company. Plenty of companies tried to push Linux. All but one are US companies (the only real one that tried, SUSE Linux, was not just not supported, it was bought out by a US company after effectively going bankrupt). So now we're here: if the US wanted to force Linux to implement sanctions against the ICC, they are in a much better position to do it than the EU is to stop them. No US or US ally is allowed to furnish the ICC with a Linux distro ... so who would do it? The EU doesn't control THEIR OWN BANKING SYSTEMS! This is a repeating problem in the EU, not just for software. They utterly, absolutely, completely refuse to pay for any software at all, and as a result the EU economy pays more by literally a factor of millions. Then they refuse to see this as a problem ... and effectively US companies levy a tax on EU business, for decades. Where's the problem with that? And this is actually an underestimation of the problem. The Microsoft ecosystem isn't just the software. It's the network, it's the applications by other firms. It's even the CPUs. SAP, Oracle, Adobe, Intel, AMD ... spending should be added to to the total. As should the spending on computers. Fucking Taiwan is in a better position than the EU when it comes to software independence. And the EU "is working on replacing them" by spending less than ONE software engineer makes in Bangalore? Sorry, no. They aren't. This just means the EU doesn't care about software independence, and doesn't even care that the US taxes all software and hardware in the EU. Also they don't have a chance in hell to change it at this point. It would have been extremely cheap to do it 20 years ago, but now it'll cost tens of billions at minimum. The ICC will be working without email, the EU can't change that and it's 100% the EU's fault. Hell, EU politicians have chosen to pay hundreds of billions EACH YEAR for the privilege of having the US control EU computer usage!
- h1fra 1y agohttps://archive.ph/tjJgW https://archive.ph/tjJgW
- yahoozoo 1y agoIsrael strikes again.
- iammjm 1y agoDisgusting. Yet another reason for Europe to ditch US-tech. Its also interesting to see how the US managed within a couple of month to destroy its trust, influence and soft-power it has built over many decades. Kinda like Musk did, but on a nation-wide scale. the orange emperor truly has a talent for wrecking anything he touches. maga all the way baby
- dismalaf 1y agoDid everyone miss the last line of the article and/or is everyone unaware of the fact this particular prosecutor has been suspended and is being investigated by the police for rape? Kind of pertinent to the story... His official work email was suspended because he's suspended from the organization...
- cheema33 1y ago> His official work email was suspended because he's suspended from the organization... At my organization, if an employee is suspended, I don't expect Microsoft to manage it. We have to do it ourselves. It is different elsewhere?
- boston_clone 1y agoImpertinent and disingenuous if you pay attention to the timeline; the EO was issued in February. The ICC has changed internal policies, and other members of the body sanctioned post-hoc have not had their email accounts suspended. The sexual misconduct allegations surfaced in May.
- dismalaf 1y agoThe sexual assault allegations were reported internally at the ICC last year. Look at this article discussing the allegations, by AP, from last year: https://apnews.com/article/war-crimes-international-criminal-court-sexual-misconduct-metoo-7519d876decb945aafc2215756df19b2 https://apnews.com/article/war-crimes-international-criminal...
- boston_clone 1y agoThank you for providing that context. My follow up question is do you think that had any pertinence towards the issuance of that particular executive order and subsequent suspension of their email account? Or, is it perhaps a persuasive nugget put in there to lend mild credibility to what Trump is doing?
- hk1337 1y ago
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- aaomidi 1y agoMicrosoft should’ve sued the government instead of immediately complying.
- 6c696e7578 1y agoShould. Yes. But disappointing agent Krasnov will cost you future government business.