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Call your elected representatives. Attend a protest. Make noise. Above all else, protect your family, friends, and neighbors. We do not have to sit back and le

Call your elected representatives. Attend a protest. Make noise. Above all else, protect your family, friends, and neighbors. We do not have to sit back and let this happen.

deadbabe 1y ago
[flagged]
- distortionfield 1y ago
  This is the natural end result of giving the president qualified immunity for acts in office. There is now no reason for them to follow the law.
  - lesuorac 1y ago
    How? None of these individuals are the president. It's the effect of qualified immunity for non-presidents.
    - blooalien 1y ago
      Mostly because they're acting as agents of the president's agenda, and as such, even if one were to prosecute them for their crimes, the president would just blanket-pardon them all and executive-order that they're immune to any legal enforcement against them, and the toadies in D.C. would roll over and allow it all to happen.
      - lesuorac 1y ago
        But none of that has to do with a president's own qualified immunity. ICE isn't inheriting the president's qualified immunity; they have it because they're government employees. It doesn't matter if they're acting in the presidents interests or not and for state employees if they're acting in the governors interests or not. Pardon is a very clearly enumerated power of the president so any usage of it is very clearly legal (although typically undesirable).
        pjc50 1y ago
        The problem with the presidential pardon is that it enables the president or his accomplices to carry out any amount of federal crimes. See Iran-Contra.
- RHSeeger 1y ago
  It seems like it would be possible for state and local forces (police) to arrest and imprison ICE agents that are acting illegally. Specifically, arrest them for kidnapping when the nab people off the streets. Sure, they'll get out because they can lie and pretend they have cause; but they could be locked up for a while at least. And do it enough, and maybe they'll start thinking twice before acting stupid.
  - dttze 1y ago
    I have bad news about the police. They are exactly the same as ICE. If they fight it would be more like gang warfare over turf and money, since that is all they really are.
  - unyttigfjelltol 1y ago
    Your outrage is not that ICE is acting illegally but that they are enforcing US law. Having local law enforcement launch some kind of insurrection is the kind of myopic nonsense you would have condemned a few years ago, even months. Heck, for the last 50 years the Imperial Presidency also was a bipartisan consensus. It looks different when it's your ox getting gored, but the solution is actually temperance, restraint and dialog.
    - janalsncm 1y ago
      Protests are usually messy and there’s not one single reason people are upset. Some people are upset with the deportations (US law). Some people are upset about rescinding visas due to political speech (violation of norms). Some people are upset because due process is being violated (law). Some people are upset because the law enforcers are hiding their identities (norm/law).
    - someothherguyy 1y ago
      > Your outrage is not that ICE is acting illegally but that they are enforcing US law. https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/how-ice-sidesteps-the-law-to-find-and-deport-people https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/how-ice-sidestep...
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
bigyabai 1y ago
My elected representative gets (credible) death threats if they resist executive monarchy.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
  TBH, I want such reps to be loud about that. We need to stop pretending that the right is not leveraging stochastic terrorism. The problem doesn't go away by ignoring it. Yes, that's risky. Some people might get hurt. A lot of people are being hurt, and will continue to be hurt, by the current situation. We all have to make our own choices about when principles and long-term outcomes outweigh our instinct for self preservation.
- crises-luff-6b 1y ago
  [dead]
- Avshalom 1y ago
  Gas station clerks get credible death threats for not selling people alcohol before noon on Sunday and manage to show a hell of a lot more spine.
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    Gas station clerks typically don't face off against paramilitary organizations with the intent to kidnap them if they refuse their demands.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
jbm 1y ago
> Call your elected representatives I have never seen this work for something this politicized.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
  Doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying.
- matthewdgreen 1y ago
  Elected representatives are going to be intransigent until a point in the very near future, when they realize they're about to be voted out en masse and their voters don't like them as much as they like another guy -- who isn't going to be on the ballot with them. So keep reminding them.
  - immibis 1y ago
    That happened - it was 2024. It's really seeming like Democrat politicians don't actually care about winning elections. They did terribly and they're still doing terribly and not acknowledging they're doing terribly, when they should have the easiest job in the world running against Trump.
nemomarx 1y ago
they did just shoot two elected representatives so I think we're a little beyond protests working
- potato3732842 1y ago
  Publicly they'll wring their hands and tell us a bunch of BS about how violence outside of the state is bad and whatnot but behind the scenes they'll go back to their research people and their focus groups and try and get to the bottom of whether it was just one crazy or an outlier who's of an existing trend in opinion they ought to care about. Same as they did when that CEO got shot.
  - Avshalom 1y ago
    They haven't even done the usual hand wringing this time. Publicly they've been claiming that he's some left wing extremist despite all available evidence.
- garciasn 1y ago
  When someone attempted to assassinate Trump would you have lumped all of those against Trump into "they"? I don't support what the current administration is doing; not by a long shot. But to say, "they did just shoot two elected representatives," is disingenuous at best.
  - orwin 1y ago
    I have lumped every people with roughly the same ideology as the Trump shooter in a 'they'. I don't remember the exact sentence but it was something like that: "That's the issue with pandering to violent conspiracy theorists, if they feel betrayed they will aim that violence at you". Do you disagree with this characterization?
  - sculper 1y ago
    The current administration explicitly condones violence against political rivals. "They" seems fair.

Call your elected representatives. Attend a protest. Make noise. Above all else, protect your family, friends, and neighbors. We do not have to sit back and let this happen.

deadbabe 1y ago

[flagged]

distortionfield 1y ago
This is the natural end result of giving the president qualified immunity for acts in office. There is now no reason for them to follow the law.
- lesuorac 1y ago
  How? None of these individuals are the president. It's the effect of qualified immunity for non-presidents.
  - blooalien 1y ago
    Mostly because they're acting as agents of the president's agenda, and as such, even if one were to prosecute them for their crimes, the president would just blanket-pardon them all and executive-order that they're immune to any legal enforcement against them, and the toadies in D.C. would roll over and allow it all to happen.
    - lesuorac 1y ago
      But none of that has to do with a president's own qualified immunity. ICE isn't inheriting the president's qualified immunity; they have it because they're government employees. It doesn't matter if they're acting in the presidents interests or not and for state employees if they're acting in the governors interests or not. Pardon is a very clearly enumerated power of the president so any usage of it is very clearly legal (although typically undesirable).
      - pjc50 1y ago
        The problem with the presidential pardon is that it enables the president or his accomplices to carry out any amount of federal crimes. See Iran-Contra.
RHSeeger 1y ago
It seems like it would be possible for state and local forces (police) to arrest and imprison ICE agents that are acting illegally. Specifically, arrest them for kidnapping when the nab people off the streets. Sure, they'll get out because they can lie and pretend they have cause; but they could be locked up for a while at least. And do it enough, and maybe they'll start thinking twice before acting stupid.
- dttze 1y ago
  I have bad news about the police. They are exactly the same as ICE. If they fight it would be more like gang warfare over turf and money, since that is all they really are.
- unyttigfjelltol 1y ago
  Your outrage is not that ICE is acting illegally but that they are enforcing US law. Having local law enforcement launch some kind of insurrection is the kind of myopic nonsense you would have condemned a few years ago, even months. Heck, for the last 50 years the Imperial Presidency also was a bipartisan consensus. It looks different when it's your ox getting gored, but the solution is actually temperance, restraint and dialog.
  - janalsncm 1y ago
    Protests are usually messy and there’s not one single reason people are upset. Some people are upset with the deportations (US law). Some people are upset about rescinding visas due to political speech (violation of norms). Some people are upset because due process is being violated (law). Some people are upset because the law enforcers are hiding their identities (norm/law).
  - someothherguyy 1y ago
    > Your outrage is not that ICE is acting illegally but that they are enforcing US law. https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/how-ice-sidesteps-the-law-to-find-and-deport-people https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/how-ice-sidestep...
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

bigyabai 1y ago

My elected representative gets (credible) death threats if they resist executive monarchy.

sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
TBH, I want such reps to be loud about that. We need to stop pretending that the right is not leveraging stochastic terrorism. The problem doesn't go away by ignoring it. Yes, that's risky. Some people might get hurt. A lot of people are being hurt, and will continue to be hurt, by the current situation. We all have to make our own choices about when principles and long-term outcomes outweigh our instinct for self preservation.
crises-luff-6b 1y ago
[dead]
Avshalom 1y ago
Gas station clerks get credible death threats for not selling people alcohol before noon on Sunday and manage to show a hell of a lot more spine.
- bigyabai 1y ago
  Gas station clerks typically don't face off against paramilitary organizations with the intent to kidnap them if they refuse their demands.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

jbm 1y ago

> Call your elected representatives I have never seen this work for something this politicized.

sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
Doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying.
matthewdgreen 1y ago
Elected representatives are going to be intransigent until a point in the very near future, when they realize they're about to be voted out en masse and their voters don't like them as much as they like another guy -- who isn't going to be on the ballot with them. So keep reminding them.
- immibis 1y ago
  That happened - it was 2024. It's really seeming like Democrat politicians don't actually care about winning elections. They did terribly and they're still doing terribly and not acknowledging they're doing terribly, when they should have the easiest job in the world running against Trump.

nemomarx 1y ago

they did just shoot two elected representatives so I think we're a little beyond protests working

potato3732842 1y ago
Publicly they'll wring their hands and tell us a bunch of BS about how violence outside of the state is bad and whatnot but behind the scenes they'll go back to their research people and their focus groups and try and get to the bottom of whether it was just one crazy or an outlier who's of an existing trend in opinion they ought to care about. Same as they did when that CEO got shot.
- Avshalom 1y ago
  They haven't even done the usual hand wringing this time. Publicly they've been claiming that he's some left wing extremist despite all available evidence.
garciasn 1y ago
When someone attempted to assassinate Trump would you have lumped all of those against Trump into "they"? I don't support what the current administration is doing; not by a long shot. But to say, "they did just shoot two elected representatives," is disingenuous at best.
- orwin 1y ago
  I have lumped every people with roughly the same ideology as the Trump shooter in a 'they'. I don't remember the exact sentence but it was something like that: "That's the issue with pandering to violent conspiracy theorists, if they feel betrayed they will aim that violence at you". Do you disagree with this characterization?
- sculper 1y ago
  The current administration explicitly condones violence against political rivals. "They" seems fair.