4 ms·

"Non-violent drug crimes" brings to mind hippies selling weed or mushrooms. But this guy was selling carfentanil. I'm not saying he's to blame for the opioid cr

"Non-violent drug crimes" brings to mind hippies selling weed or mushrooms. But this guy was selling carfentanil. I'm not saying he's to blame for the opioid crisis turning street people into shambling zombies, clogging emergency services with overdoses, and causing death, but he certainly played a part.

cortesoft 1y ago
He played a lot smaller part than the Sackler family, who ran Purdue Pharma and pushed their drugs into communities. They killed a lot more people than this guy, and yet none of them are in jail.
- tux3 1y ago
  The Sacklers are comfortably above the law and that's a bad thing, but that doesn't make small time carfentanyl operations any less bad Evil is a threshold, it's not a competition with limited spots Sometimes big crime families or notorious serial killers get away with it, but it doesn't lower the threshold for anyone else It doesn't make it any better that someone else is doing even worse. You don't get to do a little crime, as a treat
  - cess11 1y ago
    "You don't get to do a little crime, as a treat" Why not? I much prefer a society in which I can get away with some crimes to one where every crime is prosecuted.
    - rangestransform 1y ago
      Discretionary enforcement is just used as a way to disguise discrimination Perhaps our laws would be fairer and simpler if enforcement were draconian and uniform
      - theoreticalmal 1y ago
        Very interesting spectrum you’re suggesting
      - badc0ffee 1y ago
        The Singapore way
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - rustcleaner 1y ago
        Better a potentially discriminatory society I'm the ingroup in, than a totalitarian utopia where every criminal rule is enforced mercilessly.
      - cess11 1y ago
        Only a minuscule portion of actual crime comes to the attention of the state.
  - dfxm12 1y ago
    Focus on the bad thing, not piling on the guy who is serving his sentence (while also making a new life for himself).
    - rafaelmn 1y ago
      I wouldn't say he's piling on him, just replying to the guy aboowho made it sound like this guy is in jail for smoking weed.
      - ipaddr 1y ago
        A few years ago they would have been in jail. Pick the wrong state you still could end up in jail. Punishing is always a recipe for they punishment going back to society
  - ipaddr 1y ago
    Evil is a religious concept. Selling drugs isn't evil. Not selling drug doesn't make you good. People take drugs for various reasons. If a doctor sells them they are good but if someone else sells them they are evil? The person buying could have been fired and can't afford Doctors prescription so the person selling could be an angel.
    - e40 1y ago
      A doctor that over-prescribes them would be arrested, too. Or one that prescribed it to someone for a non-medical reason. (There are many of those latter docs.) People that sell fentanyl (or similar) are very bad for society, to avoid the triggering "evil". Look how many people have died in the last 10 years. It's insane. EDIT: I personally know a young man that died from a fent overdose and it's likely he didn't know what he took had fent in it. 22 years old and the whole world ahead him. Completely destroyed his family.
      - squircle 1y ago
        They would be arrested for over prescribing now. If you look at the state of the world 20 years ago or more it looks much different from here.
    - evidencetamper 1y ago
      Evil is a moral concept, which is less tied to religion these days. Drugs are an anti-social drain on society, that sickens its buyers, turning them into zombies or criminals, and turns the sellers into greedy, violent people who corrupt law enforcement. Your edge case of an angel doesn't translate to the actual realities of drug trafficking and addiction.
    - imtringued 1y ago
      Fentanyl takes the fun out of drugs and since its laced in every street drug these days it means that no drug is safe anymore. It cannot be understated how harmful fentanyl is and how low quality of a drug it is. Low quality as in the high sucks. (I've never taken drugs and I don't drink)
  - cortesoft 1y ago
    > Evil is a threshold, it's not a competition with limited spots No, but our enforcement has limited resources. We can't arrest and jail every offender of every crime, so we pick and choose where to spend our enforcement resources. All the money spent pursuing, arresting, trying, and imprisoning this guy could have been spent going after people like the Sacklers.
- BeetleB 1y ago
  Bush and his cronies resulted in the death of far more innocent people than your typical murderer. But we don't stop sending murderers to prison just because Bush/Cheney are not in prison. I've voted for drug legalization (including possession). However, that doesn't mean that I condone all drug dealing behavior.
- e40 1y ago
  Whataboutism. Selling the drug he was peddling kills people. Lots of people. This is not a “no victims” crime. EDIT: another commentor found that it was MDMA and weed, so this discussion is purely theoretical and doesn’t apply to OP.
  - Reasoning 1y ago
    MDMA and weed was his initial sentence. He's in prison now for selling synthetic opioids.
- nkrisc 1y ago
  Yes, they should be in jail for longer than he is.
- tptacek 1y ago
  It took something like a decade to put Capone away. We still locked up murderers during that period. The whole thread is silly. I don't think a lot of people here are going to stick up for a 15 year stretch for a 24 year old for selling opiates. Probably don't need to pull the Sacklers into it.
  - cortesoft 1y ago
    I don't think it is silly to be reminded of the inequalities of our penal system.
swdev281634 1y ago
> But this guy was selling carfentanil Do you have a source? It seems that guy was selling MDMA and marijuana. Here's the relevant quote from https://pthorpe92.dev/intro/my-story/ https://pthorpe92.dev/intro/my-story/ I was caught with MDMA coming in the mail from Vancouver, and some marijuana coming from california (the latter of which is what I am currently serving my time for right now)
- badc0ffee 1y ago
  From elsewhere in the thread: * https://apnews.com/general-news-d68dca63e95946fbb9cc82f385404d52 https://apnews.com/general-news-d68dca63e95946fbb9cc82f38540... * https://www.doj.nh.gov/news-and-media/preston-thorpe-sentenced-state-prison-possession-u-47700-synthetic-opioid-intent#:~:text=Willard%20announce%20that%20Preston%20Thorpe,as%20%22U%2D47700%22 https://www.doj.nh.gov/news-and-media/preston-thorpe-sentenc...
- gpm 1y ago
  Gluing a few stories together (links included below where I'm not citing to your link) it seems like: ~2012 he was caught selling MDMA and marijuana, and went to prison ~end or 2015 or start of 2016 he was released on probation [Edit: Added entry] December 2016 police responding to a domestic violence call enter his apartment to make contact with the alleged victim, and discover U-47700 (a synthetic opioid) https://www.courts.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt471/files/documents/2021-08/20170624.pdf https://www.courts.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt471/files/docu... April 2017 the police find traces of carfentanil while executing a search warrant at his place - plausibly but not provably linked to some recent carfentanil deaths - and police announce they are searching for him. https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/man-wanted-suspected-lethal-carfentanil-possession/ https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/man-wanted-suspected-let... May 2017 he ends up back in prison. Aug 2017 he pleads guilty to possession of U47700 (a synthetic opioid) with intent to distribute https://www.wmur.com/article/defense-plans-appeal-of-search-after-man-found-guilty-of-drug-possession/12021701 https://www.wmur.com/article/defense-plans-appeal-of-search-... Oct 2017 he's sentenced to 15-30 years on the above charge, he has not been charged with possessing the carfentanil (yet) despite the apparent evidence https://www.wmur.com/article/man-facing-carfentanil-charge-receives-sentence-for-possessing-u-47700/12826104 https://www.wmur.com/article/man-facing-carfentanil-charge-r... The articles aren't clear on this, but given his own recounting I assume that a suspended sentence for Marijuana was un-suspended as a result of the new charges and he is serving that sentence first, or concurrently.
refulgentis 1y ago
I find it somewhat amusing that I woke up to this post at ~9 AM, and was surprised at the crowding-out of discussion about the article, by people sort of half-groping at a straw or two they picked up, trying to make a definitive case on his...goodness? morality?...based off the straw they're holding. It is now 4 PM, about to clock out for the day because I gotta wait for CI run thats >30m. I come back here and it's still going on. This is #3 comment I see when I open HN, ensuing thread takes up two pages scrolls on 16" MBP. It's bad of me to write this because, well, who cares? Additionally, am I trying to litigate what other people comment? The root feeling driving me to express myself is a form of frustrated boredom -- rolling with that and verbalizing concretely, a bunch of people writing comments with the one thing they're hyperfocusing on their record to drive a conclusion on their value as a person/morality, and then people pointing out that's not some moral absolute, asking for links, discussing the links... ...well, it's all just clutter. Or YouTube comment-level discussion, unless we're planning on relitigating every case he's been involved in. This all would be better if it the kangaroo court stuff was confined to a thread with all of the evidence against him, so we didn't have a bunch of weak cases, or if people didn't treat this as an opportunity to be a drive by judge. Article def. ain't about his crimes, and he ain't saying he's innocent or an angel. (and the idea that "drug crimes" implies "hippie selling weed or psychedelics" so calling them "drug crimes" is hiding the ball...where does that come from? Its especially dissonant b/c you indicate the mere fact he sold an opiod is so bad that this guy is...bad? irredeemable? not worth discussing?...so presumably you care a lot about opiods, so presumably you know that's whats driven drug crime the last, uh, decade or two?)
- badc0ffee 1y ago
  > trying to make a definitive case on his...goodness? morality? Speaking for myself, I'm actually just discussing the idea that a non-violent crime like drug dealing necessarily deserves a light sentence in general. > Sounds like a you thing It is a me thing. That's why I said "brings to mind". I'm a product of my time. I remember when weed and psychedelics meant demonization and heavy sentences, and it was absurd because those substances aren't that dangerous. This is the context in which I'm accustomed to calling drug dealing a "non-violent crime". So, I feel like I need to point out that things are not quite the same with deadly drugs like carfentanil.

cortesoft 1y ago

He played a lot smaller part than the Sackler family, who ran Purdue Pharma and pushed their drugs into communities. They killed a lot more people than this guy, and yet none of them are in jail.

tux3 1y ago
The Sacklers are comfortably above the law and that's a bad thing, but that doesn't make small time carfentanyl operations any less bad Evil is a threshold, it's not a competition with limited spots Sometimes big crime families or notorious serial killers get away with it, but it doesn't lower the threshold for anyone else It doesn't make it any better that someone else is doing even worse. You don't get to do a little crime, as a treat
- cess11 1y ago
  "You don't get to do a little crime, as a treat" Why not? I much prefer a society in which I can get away with some crimes to one where every crime is prosecuted.
  - rangestransform 1y ago
    Discretionary enforcement is just used as a way to disguise discrimination Perhaps our laws would be fairer and simpler if enforcement were draconian and uniform
    - theoreticalmal 1y ago
      Very interesting spectrum you’re suggesting
    - badc0ffee 1y ago
      The Singapore way
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - rustcleaner 1y ago
      Better a potentially discriminatory society I'm the ingroup in, than a totalitarian utopia where every criminal rule is enforced mercilessly.
    - cess11 1y ago
      Only a minuscule portion of actual crime comes to the attention of the state.
- dfxm12 1y ago
  Focus on the bad thing, not piling on the guy who is serving his sentence (while also making a new life for himself).
  - rafaelmn 1y ago
    I wouldn't say he's piling on him, just replying to the guy aboowho made it sound like this guy is in jail for smoking weed.
    - ipaddr 1y ago
      A few years ago they would have been in jail. Pick the wrong state you still could end up in jail. Punishing is always a recipe for they punishment going back to society
- ipaddr 1y ago
  Evil is a religious concept. Selling drugs isn't evil. Not selling drug doesn't make you good. People take drugs for various reasons. If a doctor sells them they are good but if someone else sells them they are evil? The person buying could have been fired and can't afford Doctors prescription so the person selling could be an angel.
  - e40 1y ago
    A doctor that over-prescribes them would be arrested, too. Or one that prescribed it to someone for a non-medical reason. (There are many of those latter docs.) People that sell fentanyl (or similar) are very bad for society, to avoid the triggering "evil". Look how many people have died in the last 10 years. It's insane. EDIT: I personally know a young man that died from a fent overdose and it's likely he didn't know what he took had fent in it. 22 years old and the whole world ahead him. Completely destroyed his family.
    - squircle 1y ago
      They would be arrested for over prescribing now. If you look at the state of the world 20 years ago or more it looks much different from here.
  - evidencetamper 1y ago
    Evil is a moral concept, which is less tied to religion these days. Drugs are an anti-social drain on society, that sickens its buyers, turning them into zombies or criminals, and turns the sellers into greedy, violent people who corrupt law enforcement. Your edge case of an angel doesn't translate to the actual realities of drug trafficking and addiction.
  - imtringued 1y ago
    Fentanyl takes the fun out of drugs and since its laced in every street drug these days it means that no drug is safe anymore. It cannot be understated how harmful fentanyl is and how low quality of a drug it is. Low quality as in the high sucks. (I've never taken drugs and I don't drink)
- cortesoft 1y ago
  > Evil is a threshold, it's not a competition with limited spots No, but our enforcement has limited resources. We can't arrest and jail every offender of every crime, so we pick and choose where to spend our enforcement resources. All the money spent pursuing, arresting, trying, and imprisoning this guy could have been spent going after people like the Sacklers.
BeetleB 1y ago
Bush and his cronies resulted in the death of far more innocent people than your typical murderer. But we don't stop sending murderers to prison just because Bush/Cheney are not in prison. I've voted for drug legalization (including possession). However, that doesn't mean that I condone all drug dealing behavior.
e40 1y ago
Whataboutism. Selling the drug he was peddling kills people. Lots of people. This is not a “no victims” crime. EDIT: another commentor found that it was MDMA and weed, so this discussion is purely theoretical and doesn’t apply to OP.
- Reasoning 1y ago
  MDMA and weed was his initial sentence. He's in prison now for selling synthetic opioids.
nkrisc 1y ago
Yes, they should be in jail for longer than he is.
tptacek 1y ago
It took something like a decade to put Capone away. We still locked up murderers during that period. The whole thread is silly. I don't think a lot of people here are going to stick up for a 15 year stretch for a 24 year old for selling opiates. Probably don't need to pull the Sacklers into it.
- cortesoft 1y ago
  I don't think it is silly to be reminded of the inequalities of our penal system.

swdev281634 1y ago

> But this guy was selling carfentanil Do you have a source? It seems that guy was selling MDMA and marijuana. Here's the relevant quote from https://pthorpe92.dev/intro/my-story/ https://pthorpe92.dev/intro/my-story/ I was caught with MDMA coming in the mail from Vancouver, and some marijuana coming from california (the latter of which is what I am currently serving my time for right now)

badc0ffee 1y ago
From elsewhere in the thread: * https://apnews.com/general-news-d68dca63e95946fbb9cc82f385404d52 https://apnews.com/general-news-d68dca63e95946fbb9cc82f38540... * https://www.doj.nh.gov/news-and-media/preston-thorpe-sentenced-state-prison-possession-u-47700-synthetic-opioid-intent#:~:text=Willard%20announce%20that%20Preston%20Thorpe,as%20%22U%2D47700%22 https://www.doj.nh.gov/news-and-media/preston-thorpe-sentenc...
gpm 1y ago
Gluing a few stories together (links included below where I'm not citing to your link) it seems like: ~2012 he was caught selling MDMA and marijuana, and went to prison ~end or 2015 or start of 2016 he was released on probation [Edit: Added entry] December 2016 police responding to a domestic violence call enter his apartment to make contact with the alleged victim, and discover U-47700 (a synthetic opioid) https://www.courts.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt471/files/documents/2021-08/20170624.pdf https://www.courts.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt471/files/docu... April 2017 the police find traces of carfentanil while executing a search warrant at his place - plausibly but not provably linked to some recent carfentanil deaths - and police announce they are searching for him. https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/man-wanted-suspected-lethal-carfentanil-possession/ https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/man-wanted-suspected-let... May 2017 he ends up back in prison. Aug 2017 he pleads guilty to possession of U47700 (a synthetic opioid) with intent to distribute https://www.wmur.com/article/defense-plans-appeal-of-search-after-man-found-guilty-of-drug-possession/12021701 https://www.wmur.com/article/defense-plans-appeal-of-search-... Oct 2017 he's sentenced to 15-30 years on the above charge, he has not been charged with possessing the carfentanil (yet) despite the apparent evidence https://www.wmur.com/article/man-facing-carfentanil-charge-receives-sentence-for-possessing-u-47700/12826104 https://www.wmur.com/article/man-facing-carfentanil-charge-r... The articles aren't clear on this, but given his own recounting I assume that a suspended sentence for Marijuana was un-suspended as a result of the new charges and he is serving that sentence first, or concurrently.

refulgentis 1y ago

I find it somewhat amusing that I woke up to this post at ~9 AM, and was surprised at the crowding-out of discussion about the article, by people sort of half-groping at a straw or two they picked up, trying to make a definitive case on his...goodness? morality?...based off the straw they're holding. It is now 4 PM, about to clock out for the day because I gotta wait for CI run thats >30m. I come back here and it's still going on. This is #3 comment I see when I open HN, ensuing thread takes up two pages scrolls on 16" MBP. It's bad of me to write this because, well, who cares? Additionally, am I trying to litigate what other people comment? The root feeling driving me to express myself is a form of frustrated boredom -- rolling with that and verbalizing concretely, a bunch of people writing comments with the one thing they're hyperfocusing on their record to drive a conclusion on their value as a person/morality, and then people pointing out that's not some moral absolute, asking for links, discussing the links... ...well, it's all just clutter. Or YouTube comment-level discussion, unless we're planning on relitigating every case he's been involved in. This all would be better if it the kangaroo court stuff was confined to a thread with all of the evidence against him, so we didn't have a bunch of weak cases, or if people didn't treat this as an opportunity to be a drive by judge. Article def. ain't about his crimes, and he ain't saying he's innocent or an angel. (and the idea that "drug crimes" implies "hippie selling weed or psychedelics" so calling them "drug crimes" is hiding the ball...where does that come from? Its especially dissonant b/c you indicate the mere fact he sold an opiod is so bad that this guy is...bad? irredeemable? not worth discussing?...so presumably you care a lot about opiods, so presumably you know that's whats driven drug crime the last, uh, decade or two?)

badc0ffee 1y ago
> trying to make a definitive case on his...goodness? morality? Speaking for myself, I'm actually just discussing the idea that a non-violent crime like drug dealing necessarily deserves a light sentence in general. > Sounds like a you thing It is a me thing. That's why I said "brings to mind". I'm a product of my time. I remember when weed and psychedelics meant demonization and heavy sentences, and it was absurd because those substances aren't that dangerous. This is the context in which I'm accustomed to calling drug dealing a "non-violent crime". So, I feel like I need to point out that things are not quite the same with deadly drugs like carfentanil.